Replacement for SAW?
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Apparently, the troops who tested the SAR-80 preferred the M-16 because of the weight - not reliability. Plus the SAR-80 looked amatuerish.
The next Singapore-made rifle, the SR-88, looked even worst.
From another forum, a guy from a East bloc country, Bosnia or something... said their army is using the SAR-80! And they had no problems with reliability. In fact, they are very happy with it. -
Originally posted by gary1910:
Yap on the new weapons, very reliable one.....yes now i remembered liao, we are issued the new weapons for our ATEC in Australia. The saw gunners got new SAWS...some of us got new M16s.
Singapore's super light weight Ultimax
5.56mm
Drum/Magazine
6.5kg with 100 round drum
1030mm 508mm barrel
500-540rpm
One thing for sure, we will all be issued "brand new" weapons for war.
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Btw if they need to change barrels for the GPMG, how come SAW gunners are not issued with spare barrels for their SAWS leh? Doesn't 5.56mm rounds heat up the barrel like the 7.62??
The saw barrel damn easy change nia...but i never remembered got issue spare barrels. Can anyone answer this?
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I was just making a point that SAF will fully test a new weapon b4 adopting it.Originally posted by tvdog:Apparently, the troops who tested the SAR-80 preferred the M-16 because of the weight - not reliability. Plus the SAR-80 looked amatuerish.
The next Singapore-made rifle, the SR-88, looked even worst.
From another forum, a guy from a East bloc country, Bosnia or something... said their army is using the SAR-80! And they had no problems with reliability. In fact, they are very happy with it.
The SAR-21 SAW may not neccessary be worst off than Ultimax100, if they are, SAF will most likely not adopt it . I think it will make more sense to modify the Ultimax100 to accept SAR-21 mags than adopting a inferior weapon.
AFAIK SAR-80 is much more reliable than M-16, less IA and much easier to clean.
But it's lose out ergonomically & heavier, not sure it is more rugged as compare to M-16.
Since SAR80 does not give a much better comparative advantage, it make better economical sense to stick M-16 then. -
Hmmmz....have anyone perhaps thought of this yet?Perhaps its time for ST to create a plastic see-through drum mag for the Ultimax similar to those used currently on the SAR21?
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Originally posted by SpecOps87:Hmmmz....have anyone perhaps thought of this yet?Perhaps its time for ST to create a plastic see-through drum mag for the Ultimax similar to those used currently on the SAR21?
have you really seem a drum mag b4? cannot see through? are you sure? dun post for the sake of posting. -
I have seen a drum mag before in pictures...I mean I was just wondering since weapons like SAR21 and even Americans come out with plastic see-through M16 magazines,mebbe its time ST does something the same.And also...I'm not posting for the sake of posting.I'm just curious...
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The back part of the drum mag facing the firer is quite transparent one, I think...
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Drum Mag behind transparent meh?
All i can remember it is fucking heavy when fully loaded with this spring machine ....cannot remember behind is transparent or not.
Oh..it is black also.
Very hard to load blanks / balls into it ....the spring damn hard..
Cannot remember liao.
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sar 80 no night range arr hahhaOriginally posted by tvdog:Apparently, the troops who tested the SAR-80 preferred the M-16 because of the weight - not reliability. Plus the SAR-80 looked amatuerish.
The next Singapore-made rifle, the SR-88, looked even worst.
From another forum, a guy from a East bloc country, Bosnia or something... said their army is using the SAR-80! And they had no problems with reliability. In fact, they are very happy with it. -
it translucent. thanks whoever up there someone had saw a real drum mag.Originally posted by tvdog:The back part of the drum mag facing the firer is quite transparent one, I think...
tv is either a 'real' saw gunner (saw and handle a real drum mag) or he is a good sect comd or higher rank or maybe a armorer. -
hahaha... I am a corporal, reservist. I am the platoon runner though I sometimes stand in as section commander due to my rank.Originally posted by Joshua1975:it translucent. thanks whoever up there someone had saw a real drum mag.
tv is either a 'real' saw gunner (saw and handle a real drum mag) or he is a good sect comd or higher rank or maybe a armorer.
I have fired live rounds from a 30-round mag on a borrowed SAW on several occasions, but I am not a SAW gunner. I can't remember where was it I saw the drum mag and the translucent back cover - it's been a long time. -
that good, much better than some who claim they are sect comd.Originally posted by tvdog:hahaha... I am a corporal, reservist. I am the platoon runner though I sometimes stand in as section commander due to my rank.
I have fired live rounds from a 30-round mag on a borrowed SAW on several occasions, but I am not a SAW gunner. I can't remember where was it I saw the drum mag and the translucent back cover - it's been a long time. -
Haha, I just saw the drum mag, came up during my ASLC grad when they displayed the Ultimax 100, with a real drum mag on it. Yes it does have a translucent back cover.
Odd though, we will never use these things and yet we display them as if they are SOP. -
I think this is part of our national defence, by deterence. Simple terms: scare off enemies by show of force aka wayang. Agree?
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Ultimax 100 with optical sight
http://groups.msn.com/TheL1A1Armourer/aasam2003.msnw
Australian Army Small Arms Meet -
ahhh....that's wat I mean...redesign it with picatinny rails for scope...but dun use ACOG lah...expensive...maybe Elcan scope good enuff.... Better for SAW gunners to have the extended magnification with others in the section, since all using SAR-21 now...
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tsk tsk tsk.... it not a single shot weapon.Originally posted by Tango1:ahhh....that's wat I mean...redesign it with picatinny rails for scope...but dun use ACOG lah...expensive...maybe Elcan scope good enuff.... Better for SAW gunners to have the extended magnification with others in the section, since all using SAR-21 now...
comon who had really fire a machine gun here? after the 1st few aim, you are not aiming anymore. you look at where the round land and you move accordingly.
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ahh...not all scopes have crosshairs u know..
With an aiming reticle, u can at least keep ur shots within a respectable grouping...and u dun have to squint hard to figure out where the rest of the section is aiming at when they have already acquired the target on their scopes.. -
i love belt fed fixed position machine guns...actually u can trade accuracy for bullet by spewing more bullet over a area....How come the Army do not want to use handheld Miniguns?if the recoil is too great then it can be mounted to the ground and use that way.....
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handheld miniguns?....extremely high rate of fire....gotta carry craploads worth of ammo.......Originally posted by ceecookie:i love belt fed fixed position machine guns...actually u can trade accuracy for bullet by spewing more bullet over a area....How come the Army do not want to use handheld Miniguns?if the recoil is too great then it can be mounted to the ground and use that way..... -
maybe if you find out how much it weighs, you won't write what you wrote hereOriginally posted by ceecookie:i love belt fed fixed position machine guns...actually u can trade accuracy for bullet by spewing more bullet over a area....How come the Army do not want to use handheld Miniguns?if the recoil is too great then it can be mounted to the ground and use that way..... -
i wonder how the SAW drum mag is loaded. I heard its machine loaded but never saw the device b4. tried loading the drum mag manually, but when i reached 50 rounds or so , i cant push the rounds in.
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Is any of the tanks or fighting viehicles using fixed Minigun?????if say the tank use abt 2 Minigun then at abt 10 sec 1600 bullets would be shot...enuf to penetrade armors......abt bullets bring abt 10000 bullets and store in tank lor....
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find out more about mini b4 post anything about it in here....
it oni make you look funny from the way you post. mini on tank??? -
The only instance where a Gatling gun(known as a minigun by some of you) is mounted on an armoured vehicle is the 'Vulcan'(means volcano due to the awesome amount of fire spew from it).The Gatling gun is mounted on a M113, this vehicle is used in the Vietnam war by the US. This vehicle is deemed not effective enough when compared to its Soviet counterpart, ZSU 23-4 which is being used by the North Vietnam Army(NVA).It is being equipped with four radar-guided 23mm guns After that there are no more operational examples of Gatling guns mounted on armoured vehicles even for AA roles. The reason is that the Gatling gun is ineffective against armoured targets.
The idea of hand-held miniguns is not possible at all. The minigun which you may have probably seen is in the movie 'Predator' is fake.Weight is a big problem as it is too heavy to be carried by infantry. I mean, you don't see many Arnold-type soldiers in the SAF right? Even if you are able to carry the weapon after a long road march,the recoil from firing the thing will certainly knock you down. Assuming that you can still handle the tough recoil.There will be little accuracy when the mini is to be fired from a hand-held manner as the bullets will be flying all over the place. This weapon fires at such a fast rate that whatever amount of ammo possibily carried by this Arnold gunner will be finish in less than 5 mins of continuous fire.
Maybe it is just me,but I think we have to be more realistic here. Actual war-fighting is very different from what some of you have seen in the 'realistic' movies or computer games. Can't really blame some of you guys as you may not have serve NS yet. I, personally learn the reality of war in the army. For example some of you guys may have associated the scene of an exploding hand grenade to be a great fireball as seen in the movies. Actually this is not true, the typical grenade only contains ball bearings and not some flammable stuff which cause the fireball.What you see will be a plume of smoke followed by a big bang,there is no fireball!
Info on ZSU 23-4: http://www.davidpride.com/Israeli_Armor/IL_Armor_04_307.htm )
Pics on ZSU 23-4:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/zsu-23-4-pics.htm