What is so special about F-111s ?
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The Commanche suffered cancellation due to a variety of reasons.Originally posted by fett:er, where got cancel? can provide info.
Basically, the Commanche helicopter was conceived as an Armed Scout. It's main purpose was to conduct reece into hostile territory and pick off targets of opportunity. It was never meant to be an Attack helicopter to replace the Apache. However, midway through the programme, for political and other non-military reasons, designers were asked to change concept from an Armed Scout to an Attack Helicopter. This led to a whole lot of problems and eventually when they realised it would be impossible, they tried to change concept again back to Armed Scout... in the end, due to excessive costs incurred, the programme was cancelled.
The main reason they couldn't change the Commanche's mission was simple and it brings us back to why an all stealth force is quite unrealistic at the moment. To be completely stealthy, all payload has to be carried internally, inside the aircraft. This limits the amount of weaponry you can carry. For the Commanche to be successful as an Attack heli, it had to be able to cram all the stuff on the Apache's wings inside it's body. This was quite impractical. So, the Apache will thus remain for decades to come.
The other less complicated reason why the Commanche programme was cancelled was due to experience gained during, the peacekeeping mission to Somalia (rem Black Hawk Down?) and the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq. In these conflicts, helis were shot down using small arms, RPGs and man-portable SAMs. Basically, stealth is useless when the weapons your enemy is using are guided visually instead of by RADAR... -
Not to mention the special care that the RAM and surface of the plane has to have.It would be to costly.
Conventional planes are much more hardy and dont need to spend days in the shop getting repainted! -
Yup. Also, one of the nails in the Comanche's coffin was the cost of the Hellfire-armed Predator, in particular the number of which that could be funded out of the savings from cancelling the Comanche program. Whether or not the Hellfire predator goes ahead is another matter.Originally posted by aerozapper:The Commanche suffered cancellation due to a variety of reasons.
Basically, the Commanche helicopter was conceived as an Armed Scout. It's main purpose was to conduct reece into hostile territory and pick off targets of opportunity. It was never meant to be an Attack helicopter to replace the Apache. However, midway through the programme, for political and other non-military reasons, designers were asked to change concept from an Armed Scout to an Attack Helicopter. This led to a whole lot of problems and eventually when they realised it would be impossible, they tried to change concept again back to Armed Scout... in the end, due to excessive costs incurred, the programme was cancelled.
The main reason they couldn't change the Commanche's mission was simple and it brings us back to why an all stealth force is quite unrealistic at the moment. To be completely stealthy, all payload has to be carried internally, inside the aircraft. This limits the amount of weaponry you can carry. For the Commanche to be successful as an Attack heli, it had to be able to cram all the stuff on the Apache's wings inside it's body. This was quite impractical. So, the Apache will thus remain for decades to come.
The other less complicated reason why the Commanche programme was cancelled was due to experience gained during, the peacekeeping mission to Somalia (rem Black Hawk Down?) and the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq. In these conflicts, helis were shot down using small arms, RPGs and man-portable SAMs. Basically, stealth is useless when the weapons your enemy is using are guided visually instead of by RADAR... -
ic, thank you. never really like CNN.Originally posted by sidestep1984:its cancelled...budget cuts....shown on CNN last year.... -
i can't quite remember the original design requirements but when it was put out, the F-111 wasn't design to be a bomber. i thought the designation is obvious enough. The platform got off the production line anyway but its mission was changed. However, the navy benefited because the technical knowledge gained resulted in the F-14. The EF-111 was a late Air Force request for an EW plane.Originally posted by storywolf:The F-111, although old but it was build for one single purpose , that is to bomb !!! thus it have a much longer range and bomb load. Also it have specialized EW for penetration of airspace which normal F-18 does or A-6 .does not have.
please someone correct if i'm wrong. -
F111 ? no that a wrong picture, it is a B1 bomber. The tail of the F111 is totally different.Originally posted by YI:
cool-looking plane if you ask me.. -
It was to be a sweep wing interceptor and bomber for both the naval and airforce. But the requirement was wrong and weight of it is too heavy of navy operations. Yes after that F-14 came out of and was to became a delicated interceptor rather than jack of all trade.Originally posted by fett:i can't quite remember the original design requirements but when it was put out, the F-111 wasn't design to be a bomber. i thought the designation is obvious enough. The platform got off the production line anyway but its mission was changed. However, the navy benefited because the technical knowledge gained resulted in the F-14. The EF-111 was a late Air Force request for an EW plane.
please someone correct if i'm wrong.
In the end, it went on to be the airforce mid-weight bomber, able to fly at tree-top level, with EW suit. -
The 'Vark used during the Operation El Dorado Canyon were not assigned to SAC but TAC (Tactical Air Command) or specifically USAFE (US Air Force Europe). The SAC 'Varks are FB-111A whilst El Dorado Canyon 'Varks are F-111E (or is it F?). The reason the Vark were used is that they are the only USAF planes with the required capability to whack point targets - B-52s can only carpet-bomb at that time (no AGM-142 capability). Nowadays, it would be the job for F-117s, if not F-15Es which replace the F-111s.Originally posted by sidestep1984:The General Dynamics F-111 Aardvark (the nickname was unofficial for most of its lifespan, but it was officially named "Aardvark" at its retirement ceremony for the United States Air Force) is a long-range strategic bomber, reconnaissance, and tactical strike aircraft. The F-111 project was long considered an expensive failure, but the end result was a capable, albeit costly, aircraft.
the f-18 is still in its infancy....the a6 is too slow...
the aardvark had a low level speed of Mach 1.2 and a high level speed of mach 2.5
the aardvark can carry a whole lot more than the f-18 and a6.....
plus the aardvark falls under the SAC(Strategic Air Command) and the f 18 and a6 falls under the US Navy....so its also a case of different services.... -
amazingly it still retained the ability to carry the AIM-54's and it's accompanying radar systemOriginally posted by storywolf:It was to be a sweep wing interceptor and bomber for both the naval and airforce. But the requirement was wrong and weight of it is too heavy of navy operations. Yes after that F-14 came out of and was to became a delicated interceptor rather than jack of all trade.
In the end, it went on to be the airforce mid-weight bomber, able to fly at tree-top level, with EW suit.
I think i have a picture of that somewhere -
Not quite - the F111A had the AN/APQ-113 and AN/APQ-110 radars in its nose, while the F111B (the naval version) had the AN/AWG-9 radar which went with the Phoenix system.Originally posted by |-|05|:amazingly it still retained the ability to carry the AIM-54's and it's accompanying radar system
I think i have a picture of that somewhere
Visually, the F111B can be distinguished by a shorter, more conical nose:
The 111B was cancelled by the US Navy after all efforts at weight reduction (it was overweight by 23,000 pounds) failed. Grumman, which had been roped in by the Navy for their expertise in building carrier-based fighters, was given the project of building a platform for the Phoenix system, which of course eventuated in the F14. -
haha thx for clearing that up man
