Shall AK rifle be taught in SAF too?
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Rifle like Ak-47 is widely use around the world.Shall we be taught how to use such rifle while we r in our NS live?
IMHO! A short course may help,a one week course and a few range will do!
If budget constraint,how abt restrict just to those task for UN mission,the likely hood of them posting to countries with wide usage of AK rifle is higher. -
One week? I had a crash course with the sar21 in 2 days, range included.
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ADF fires AKs too i think....for assesment of firearms or something like that...Originally posted by zenden9:Rifle like Ak-47 is widely use around the world.Shall we be taught how to use such rifle while we r in our NS live?
IMHO! A short course may help,a one week course and a few range will do!
If budget constraint,how abt restrict just to those task for UN mission,the likely hood of them posting to countries with wide usage of AK rifle is higher. -
it was taught but not to all.
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As long as the SAF operates as the defence force it is claimed to be, there is little utility in training NS men in the use of the AK, since the armies in our neighbourhood don't use them.
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Actually all guns are almost the same in operation. If you know how to use a M16 then using a AK-47 is even easiler .Originally posted by zenden9:Rifle like Ak-47 is widely use around the world.Shall we be taught how to use such rifle while we r in our NS live?
IMHO! A short course may help,a one week course and a few range will do!
If budget constraint,how abt restrict just to those task for UN mission,the likely hood of them posting to countries with wide usage of AK rifle is higher.
Don't think that there is extra need to go for range. Why ? even if you train to shoot with a AK-47 , if you ever pick up an other AK-47, the zeroing of it also will not be the same. Just do what the russian taught their soldiers, go for auto burst and hope you hit the target. -
In real war, as long as got ammo, can fire, can le...just pray bullets land on the enemy haha.
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Originally posted by zenden9:Rifle like Ak-47 is widely use around the world.Shall we be taught how to use such rifle while we r in our NS live?
IMHO! A short course may help,a one week course and a few range will do!
If budget constraint,how abt restrict just to those task for UN mission,the likely hood of them posting to countries with wide usage of AK rifle is higher. -
My battalion S2 once briefed us prior to ATEC that whatever weapons we capture from the OpFor can be used against them.
Accroding to him, this was the logic:
"All assault rifles operate on the same principle. Load, cock and shoot."
I guess that applies to the AK-47 as well.
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Actually it's dangerous to pick up enemy weapons for your own usage. They could be sabotaged.
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Shall we FFF the weapon prior to usage?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Actually it's dangerous to pick up enemy weapons for your own usage. They could be sabotaged. -
Murphy's Law Buddy... when you're short of everything but the enemy, you're in a combat zone.. and that includes AMMO...Originally posted by deathscythe99:In real war, as long as got ammo, can fire, can le...just pray bullets land on the enemy haha.
and yes i have mentioned about picking up indeginous rifles and the reply was the same as above. it might be wired. true. BUT what if you've just downed that aggressor and you move forward shortly afterward and pick it up. now that'll be possible no? IMO anyway. -
Think you read too much novels ! First it is expensive and difficult to sabotage a rifle just to kill a soldier. Also to do these type of sabo, you need to be well train and time, it can be as dangerous to the person setting up the trap.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Actually it's dangerous to pick up enemy weapons for your own usage. They could be sabotaged.
When war time, there is so many casaulties, you think the enemy is so free to slowly sabo rifles !!! Everyone is fighting a war and busy shooting at each other instead. There may be rare cases of sabo only.
Next, if there is bloody war on, you can run around without a rifle in the middle of the war or you can pick up a rifle and have at least some protection. -
hahaha. u all play too much CS. Low carbine ammo, see AK on the floor, gian sai go and pick up, suay suay u pick up an empty weapon, then what? Bang balls n die? Would u rather reload a familiar m-16 or carbine, or figure out where the bugger keep his ammo, and how to reload the AK?
If it ever comes to the point that u have to pick up another bugger's weapon, u probably have no time to reload, and all u can do is point n squeeze the trigger n hope for the best. -
Mr Storywolf, perhaps you are not familiar that during the Vietnam War, there was a certain type of grenade produced that had no fuse at all.Originally posted by storywolf:Think you read too much novels ! First it is expensive and difficult to sabotage a rifle just to kill a soldier. Also to do these type of sabo, you need to be well train and time, it can be as dangerous to the person setting up the trap.
When war time, there is so many casaulties, you think the enemy is so free to slowly sabo rifles !!! Everyone is fighting a war and busy shooting at each other instead. There may be rare cases of sabo only.
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Which meant, Pull ring, release spoon, and BOOM.
WHO was this type of grenade produced for?
Navy SEALs.
WHY was this type of grenade produced?
To SABOTAGE any one (read: VC) that picked it up and tried to be a smart alec. -
certain SAF units are already trained to use weapons all over the world.Originally posted by zenden9:Rifle like Ak-47 is widely use around the world.Shall we be taught how to use such rifle while we r in our NS live?
IMHO! A short course may help,a one week course and a few range will do!
If budget constraint,how abt restrict just to those task for UN mission,the likely hood of them posting to countries with wide usage of AK rifle is higher.
They use berets of one of the primary colours. -
Under the old doctrine of early SAF. Scouts were trained to using 42 different type of firearms (rifles/pistols/others). Among them includes the Ak-47.
This is due to the fact that during that time in the late 60s, communist militias are still spreading in the jungles of Malaysia and with SG just gaining independence, it's very venerable to Communist raids and ambush.
But after the communist militia were arrested and pull back thanks to the MAF, SAF stop adopting that doctrine.
source - My SISPEC OC, a senior warrant, the first batch of scouts, the one who proposed the reorg from the ancient 9 men section to the current 7 men section. Now probably retired.
Some of the old weapons can be found in the Armor Heritage center.
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Might not be a bad idea for a 1-2 day instruction class on the AK-47. Just theory and practice a bit on stripping the weapon, assembly, IA, line of sight familiarization, etc..just no range practice lor..won't take much time also.
Ditto for the Steyr and FN-CAL (I think..wat's that FN rifle that's standard issue in TNI? I just can't recall!! Somebody help me on this? Anybody? )
While we are on this topic, do you all think that all men and specialists should learn the P226 pistol as well? Again, theory and dry practice..no live shoots. As far as I know, only officers and some specs get to learn and shoot it. It might be useful in a scenario when a soldier comes across an officer (officer down!) and am able to pick up the pistol and employ the sidearm, in addition to his rifle.
Might not be a bad idea for knowledge's sake. Plus, you never know when it might really be useful...that's my opinion though.. -
Ditto for the Steyr and FN-CAL (I think..wat's that FN rifle that's standard issue in TNI? I just can't recall!! Somebody help me on this? Anybody? )
While we are on this topic, do you all think that all men and specialists should learn the P226 pistol as well? Again, theory and dry practice..no live shoots. As far as I know, only officers and some specs get to learn and shoot it. It might be useful in a scenario when a soldier comes across an officer (officer down!) and am able to pick up the pistol and employ the sidearm, in addition to his rifle.
Might not be a bad idea for knowledge's sake. Plus, you never know when it might really be useful...that's my opinion though.. [/b][/quote]
haha...i agree wif u man...it wld b gd to get our hands on more weapons during ns...
anw...e indonesian rifle is the FN FNC...i've gt a link here...hope it works
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as24-e.htm
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Yes, the Indonesian weapon is the FN-FNC. It is made under license in Indonesia.
Peter Kokalis review of the weapon here:
http://remtek.com/arms/fn/fnc/index.htm
Being locally-made in Indonesia does raise questions about quality.
But funny you should call it CAL as the CAL is a very rare but unsuccessful predecessor to the FNC.
I definitely we should learn to use the weapons of neighbouring countries. In times of war, whether they become our enemy or ally, it would be helpful that we are at least familiar with where all the switches are. -
thanks guys...yep....found out it was the FN-FNC myself...haiz..talk about momentary memory loss...
Yeah, I did remember reading something abt FN-CAL before; an unsuccessful follow-up to the FAL...chamber problems or something.
Anyway, I think these 1-2 day instruction classes on foreign assault rifles is a good idea. No need to expand on crew-served weapons or the like...just simple classes on field-stripping, sighting, etc...keep our infantry guys occupied for their NS career....LOL -
a bunch of kopassus came over to train with our guys last year - they were very, very accurate with these rifles ( which they called the ss-'satu' ).
can't remember whether it was the normal or para version they had. the weapon is heavy, and has a very no-frills, kind of 'antique' feeling about. -
H&K G3?
Anyway, I think at least the scouts or the recce troopers should undergo some familiarisation course.Maybe the Armament Techs should also be taught, so that in Ops, they can be the ones who can assist in salvage. -
What do you think of the Kopassus?Originally posted by quivalen:a bunch of kopassus came over to train with our guys last year - they were very, very accurate with these rifles ( which they called the ss-'satu' ).
can't remember whether it was the normal or para version they had. the weapon is heavy, and has a very no-frills, kind of 'antique' feeling about.
I read a book about their formation and their achievements and also some things they would rather people forget.
Pretty impressive battle record. Ruthless fcukers.
Also executed a superb anti-hijacking in the 80's when a Garuda plane was hijacked to Bangkok. One Kopassus dead by firendly fire. All hijackers dead. One captured alive also mysteriously died on the way back to Indonesia. "Take no prisoner" must be their motto.
But the whole thing was over-shadowed by the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan's life so most people don't know or remember it. -
kopassus or kostrad?Originally posted by quivalen:a bunch of kopassus came over to train with our guys last year - they were very, very accurate with these rifles ( which they called the ss-'satu' ).
can't remember whether it was the normal or para version they had. the weapon is heavy, and has a very no-frills, kind of 'antique' feeling about.