Weapon Talk ~ 84mm CARL GUSTAV
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The 84mm Carl Gustav can combat heavy armour, armoured personnel carriers, landing craft, etc. The key to its versatility is the new generation of highly effective ammunition:
1) The HEAT 751 round has a combined effect of explosively formed penetrator and hollow charge, strikes and penetrates ERA tiles without initiating them, and its main charge blasts through the armour protection leaving massive internal damage. It has an armour penetration of 500mm.
2) The HEAT 551 round knocks out approximately 90% of all armour vehicles at ranges up to 700 metres. It is also highly effective against other hard targets, such as concrete bunkers, landing craft and aircraft. It has an armour penetration of 400mm.
3) For target practice there is the 84mm TP 552 round. This is ballistically matched to the 84mm HEAT 551 round but has an inert warhead.
4) The Illuminating 545 round rapidly illuminates target areas, helping ground forces to complete their mission. Has a maximum range of 2100 metres.
5) The HEDP 502 round is a dual-purpose HE and HEAT round optimised for combat in urban areas. It is effective against light armoured vehicles, concrete and brick walls, field fortifications and ground forces.
6) The SMOKE 469B round develops a smoke screen instantaneously on impact.
7) The HE 441B round can be set to either impact detonation or air burst, to combat troops in the open or behind cover, soft-skinned vehicles and similar types of targets. Has a maximum range of 1100 metres.
“... he ain't heavy ...” — the 84mm Carl Gustav SRAAW(M)*
The Carl Gustav is a reloadable bazooka-style rocket launcher. In the CF, this Swedish-designed weapon is issued at the section level for anti-armour defence. The Carl Gustav is portable weighing only 18kg in firing position. It is fired from the shoulder and can used standing, kneeling, or prone — when firing from the prone position an unusual short, flexible bipod is fitted to steady the muzzle. The Carl Gustav fires an 84mm rocket-propelled Carl Gustav ammunition shell with a muzzle velocity of 290m per second. The standard rocket has a HEAT (High Exposive Anti-Tank) warhead but a dual- purpose high explosive round (HEDP)** is available for use against bunkers. -
Tank hunter team, where are you?
1 X team commander (CSM), 2 X 84mm team (4 guns), 2 X M203, 1 X LAW/SS and 1 X SAW. -
I was rifleman runner, not 84mm.
All I can say aout the 84 is that it is damn heavy and fcuking loud. Best you are not near this beast during live firing.
One problem with the 84 is the size and weight of the tube and the ammo. Even though there are so many different and interesting types of ammo, there are only so many rounds each 84 team can carry. -
more pics -
4 rounds to second gunner, and if need be 1 round chambered in gun.Originally posted by tvdog:I was rifleman runner, not 84mm.
All I can say aout the 84 is that it is damn heavy and fcuking loud. Best you are not near this beast during live firing.
One problem with the 84 is the size and weight of the tube and the ammo. Even though there are so many different and interesting types of ammo, there are only so many rounds each 84 team can carry.
Also the infantry riding shotgun providing the protection escort each man carry 1 pair canister possible, -
muzzle velocity 290m/s? That's slow
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HEAT or any other CE round do not really need high velocity for penetration.Originally posted by zenden9:muzzle velocity 290m/s? That's slow -
No,I'm not concern abt the penetration power.But time taken to reach the target.The faster,the less chance the enemy will escape from the impact.Originally posted by gary1910:HEAT or any other CE round do not really need high velocity for penetration. -
you have a point there...Originally posted by zenden9:No,I'm not concern abt the penetration power.But time taken to reach the target.The faster,the less chance the enemy will escape from the impact.
but looking at the terrain and situations we likely to face, the used of the 84 team or the tank hunting team are to block ABG from advancing.
1st
the ABG will not be running away as they are task to reinforce.
2nd looking at the terrain again, the ABGs will have a big problems to run away from 84mm.
and simple math tell you tank at (close terrain) 50km/h or 50000m per 3600 sec that will be 13.88m/s.
13.88m/s >~< 290m/s
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For penetration wise I dun have details but read somewhere they already develop a special round that can pierce ERA armor.Originally posted by zenden9:No,I'm not concern abt the penetration power.But time taken to reach the target.The faster,the less chance the enemy will escape from the impact.
As to the target getting away. 84 Max effective range is 700m from the point of fire to target impact takes only few seconds, gun crews can be spread out to engage tank at different angles and each take turn to fire. HEAT penetration is 400mm RHA steel armor.
From our training we know that most tanks are not very accurate when fire on the move, primary obj is always disable first, whack the tracks or from behind then once tank not going anywhere as good as bye bye.
But having said this of course it's also very rare to find tanks alone by themselves, mostly they move in convoys for protection and in a way that cover various arcs and once being engaged will not stay in same place for very long. -
si bei heavy....
good luck to the assistant when doing live firing and hope no blinds ...if not balls drop man...... -
The gun venturi actually shapes the backblast angle protecting gunner and assistant during live fire.Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):si bei heavy....
good luck to the assistant when doing live firing and hope no blinds ...if not balls drop man......
Blinds is still ok, rounds will still fire off but drop short of target, it is the duds that you must be wary of. Better pray when open venturi it dun suddenly goes off & there goes crew1 and anybody nearby. -
me from 84mm section, KSJ.
one thing i dun like its you know Carl Gustav, now already Mark 3.
last time is mark 1 and mark2..SAF using MARK2.
Mark 3 version is the tube make of plastic wan....lighter by as much as 7kg!!!!
and been around for as long as 8-9 years liao..but the damn SAF dun wanna change the rifle...make me carry the damn heavy gun!!
gun:16.1kg
telescopic sight : 1.1 kg
nighthawk: 2.1 kg
+SBO +FBO ??? dunno how heavy all in all! -
There is the tandem warhead 751 HEAT,effective range slightly more than 600m , with muzzle velocity of 210m/s.Originally posted by KumSioJui:For penetration wise I dun have details but read somewhere they already develop a special round that can pierce ERA armor.
As to the target getting away. 84 Max effective range is 700m from the point of fire to target impact takes only few seconds, gun crews can be spread out to engage tank at different angles and each take turn to fire. HEAT penetration is 400mm RHA steel armor.
From our training we know that most tanks are not very accurate when fire on the move, primary obj is always disable first, whack the tracks or from behind then once tank not going anywhere as good as bye bye.
But having said this of course it's also very rare to find tanks alone by themselves, mostly they move in convoys for protection and in a way that cover various arcs and once being engaged will not stay in same place for very long.
Penetration of abt 500mm RHA after ERA.
Since the effective range of this round is only 600m, thus the low velocity does not really matter, afterall the entire flight time is only 2~3 sec for the effective range, thus when the tank crew realise that there is rocket coming toward it, I think they left only one sec to react, there is if they see the incoming rocket in the first place.
Here the brochure:
http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/GetFile.aspx?pathtype=ProductFiles&filetype=Files&id=2081 -
Yah lor .. but I heard the newer units are training on MK3, and they sometimes use it during atec or btec with miles system.Originally posted by nightzip:me from 84mm section, KSJ.
one thing i dun like its you know Carl Gustav, now already Mark 3.
last time is mark 1 and mark2..SAF using MARK2.
Mark 3 version is the tube make of plastic wan....lighter by as much as 7kg!!!!
and been around for as long as 8-9 years liao..but the damn SAF dun wanna change the rifle...make me carry the damn heavy gun!!
gun:16.1kg
telescopic sight : 1.1 kg
nighthawk: 2.1 kg
+SBO +FBO ??? dunno how heavy all in all!
knn ... MK3 9kg but attach with scope and miles system in the end also 13-15kg ... kana sai might as well carry MK2 so no need draw so many stores. LPPL
But personally I think the ones used in reservist are general purpose which all units use, break then repair and reuse again and again. During live fire exercise when round leave the gun the aftershock virbration is so strong the scope sometimes can just fly off the gun.
In war time definately cannot depend on these guns sure die one. Thats why I think they have kept some where very brand new virgin guns never use before one. I hope is MK3
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Wow .. 500mm penetration after defeating ERA ... cool...Originally posted by gary1910:There is the tandem warhead 751 HEAT,effective range slightly more than 600m , with muzzle velocity of 210m/s.
Penetration of abt 500mm RHA after ERA.
Since the effective range of this round is only 600m, thus the low velocity does not really matter, afterall the entire flight time is only 2~3 sec for the effective range, thus when the tank crew realise that there is rocket coming toward it, I think they left only one sec to react, there is if they see the incoming rocket in the first place.
Here the brochure:
http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/GetFile.aspx?pathtype=ProductFiles&filetype=Files&id=2081
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Green scale, white scale, airburst settings, etc ..........anymore 84mm crews here? You guys should know what I'm talking about.
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yah yah...
green scale is for HE, white is for HEAT...BLAH....
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Hehehe,u can volunteer to donate a Mark 3 version to SAF and personally assign to u only. BTW,will it mean shorter lifespan for using plastic? Maybe after fire 20 times must throw away and cannot be used? Any idea?Originally posted by nightzip:me from 84mm section, KSJ.
one thing i dun like its you know Carl Gustav, now already Mark 3.
last time is mark 1 and mark2..SAF using MARK2.
Mark 3 version is the tube make of plastic wan....lighter by as much as 7kg!!!!
and been around for as long as 8-9 years liao..but the damn SAF dun wanna change the rifle...make me carry the damn heavy gun!!
gun:16.1kg
telescopic sight : 1.1 kg
nighthawk: 2.1 kg
+SBO +FBO ??? dunno how heavy all in all! -
there is definitely barrel life and maintainence/replacement after a particular number of rounds are fired off.... and where u go to do it.. my camp.. -.-
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Comd: team 1 readyyyyy... HEAT, Movinnnnnng, 500.
Gun 1 and 2 asst: Gun ready.
Comd: Gun 1...... FIRE.
pause 2 sec.
Comd: Gun 2 FIRE.
Gun Asst 1: Hit target.
Gun Asst 2: Hit target. -
yupp..the drills....
and remember the nighthawk settings?
so normally how you all sling the 84? back sling? front sling? side sling?
me always front sling. i got one gunner damn gungho,...can back sling all the way! -
during my CSM course, I shoulder carry and run with it. hey still got to sling the M16 leh...
just put on shoulder like coolie carry rice. -
shoulder carry is the best so far. (but i think it not in the doctrine) the sling just dun work so well on the shoulder.
back in active time, as block 2IC, i tell my coy 84 section when doing block, they are to shoulder carry and run with it. and they find it a better way to do it as well. all the 4 gunner shoulder carry even during movement.
it is oso fast for them. when they reach the 2nd block position, stand or squat the gun is right in position and asst. just have to load them up. -
wah...u dun use sling at all???? for long distance movement?? like walk 5-6 clicks?
or you mean retrogade movements?