Pistol
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I seldom see SAF soldiers carrying pistols as a secondary weapon unlike their western counterparts
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never seen it being issued as yet..
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Wrong... it is issued.
However, I believe in active NS units, there is some " control " exercised by Mindef and the CO. This is to prevent loss of a pistol, which is a great concern by the powers at the top !
It is issued at my reservist unit. All officers and senior specs. working in certain areas, and who do not need a "full" weapon, but require a personal defence weapon is entitled to draw a pistol from the armskote.
The problem with having a pistol, as we understand from the "old birds" , are that it is (1) very tempting for a criminal to try to steal one , and (2) much easier for someone to steal and conceal it !!!! .... and (3) likely the preferred choice of an armed robber.
I have seen extreme cases of paranoia in my unit, where my colleagues have drawn pistols and went for outfield exercises. When they sleep at night, they wear their webbing and tie their pistol holster to their webbing with lots of comms cord. It is particularly dangerous in Singapore, when doing training outfield, because some of the training areas are near foreign workers' construction sites. We are very careful when operating near these workers' sleeping huts.
For me, I slept with my weapon under my body and ground sheet !!! -
HAha..paranoid,but i understand we as singaporeans are kiasu as well.
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Pistols are weapon of choice to smuggle out, no doubt abt tt
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One thing is, it is very hard to shoot with a pistol, certain amount of training is needed.Originally posted by chronicles:I seldom see SAF soldiers carrying pistols as a secondary weapon unlike their western counterparts
To issue a pistol to a person without enough training will see the person useless with it as it will not hit the target.
One thing to note, a pistol may look good and cool but it heavily in hot weather also asia size is smaller, any extra weight will wear you down faster, so a pistols with hoslter and extra bullet weight may be do more harm than good. But all those depend on mission. -
SAF style... at least in my unit... carrying a pistol , don't look cool. It may draw some looks from others initially, but that is all.
A few reasons...
1) The holster issued was leather. The leather in our climate does not work. It started to peel and look quite bad.
2) The holster is meant to go with another type of belt, or harness or tactical harness. We used it on our standard SBO. People can see that we are not able to draw it fast enough in an emergency and don't look kilat !!!
3) We were strongly advised to use a lanyard (like the police) to secure it. End up... a lot of comms cord hanging around your body. Some regular captain came around and saw and laughed and said we were reservists "christmas trees"
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reservist christmas trees.
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ohhhh i know what pistols are for liao
for terminating regulars when they are downgraded n deemed unfit. -
Hmmmz....tot that all along pistols and carbines are issued to officers and senior specs like WOs etc.
Well,during the SAF effort in tsunami hit Banda-Aceh our ADF guys sent in to protect the engineers and medical teams are issued pistols as well after the shooting incident outside the UN Compound.
Anyway,does anyone know why isn't those armed with pistols equipped with a tactical thigh holster?And are equipped with the standard belt holster which rides near the hip.with SBO on,it would seem ridiculous to be unable to draw one's sidearm fast enough to engage.Anyway,where are the additional magazines held?In the SBO or is there a magazine pouch for those issued with pistols?
Btw..what pistols are those issued with getting?Sig Sauer? -
During my time... early to mid 90s... P226.
We never were confronted with the problem of spare magazines . In fact, only saw live rounds during the fam course which was held for a small group. Much of the fam course was devoted to stripping and cleaning ! -
SIG P226.Yes , the best place for the ammo would be an integrated holster similar to those found in the US AITES system.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Hmmmz....tot that all along pistols and carbines are issued to officers and senior specs like WOs etc.
Well,during the SAF effort in tsunami hit Banda-Aceh our ADF guys sent in to protect the engineers and medical teams are issued pistols as well after the shooting incident outside the UN Compound.
Anyway,does anyone know why isn't those armed with pistols equipped with a tactical thigh holster?And are equipped with the standard belt holster which rides near the hip.with SBO on,it would seem ridiculous to be unable to draw one's sidearm fast enough to engage.Anyway,where are the additional magazines held?In the SBO or is there a magazine pouch for those issued with pistols?
Btw..what pistols are those issued with getting?Sig Sauer? -
I remember firing a SigSauer once. It ought to be a P226 - I can't remember.
I was covering safety for pistol shoot, and there were some spare rounds. So my Encik gave me an impromptu pistol handling session and let me shoot some rounds.
Some things I learnt about shooting pistols:
1. No such thing as one-hand shooting. Sure, you can do that, but the recoil will ensure that the bullet goes anywhere but the target.
To quote Tom Clancy's Red Rabbit, ' You can fire using one hand only if the other hand is on the f**ker's shoulder'.
2. Even with two hands, you must grip the pistol firmly. Otherwise, the effects are much the same as No.1. I didn't grip my pistol tightly at first, and my first shot went wild.
3. Even if you do handle properly with two hands, accuracy is still pretty poor. Definitely worse than a rifle, even at short ranges (50m and less).
Or maybe it's just me. My Encik was shouting at me, 'Hoi, medic! Shooting dinosaur kah apa!?!?!?!'
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The first time I shot a pistol (Beretta 92)... the results were to simply put it very bad. The grouping was terrible, shots were spread so wide I looked like I used a shotgun and target sheet wasn't even very far away.
After a couple of mags I couldn't be bother about aiming any more, I just point and shoot Hands were shaking after 50 rounds.
And of course its nothing like the movies -
Originally posted by fudgester:
Dude, that is funny! I almost hit the deck falling backwards!
Or maybe it's just me. My Encik was shouting at me, 'Hoi, medic! Shooting dinosaur kah apa!?!?!?!' [/b]
Anyway, here's my 0.2 on some of the points brought up:
1) One handed shooting A.K.A. Strong Hand or Support Hand - This is done all the time. I ain't talking about being a comboy but Strong H or Support Hand only shooting is almost always part of a basic tactical pistol curriculum. I just have no clue if the SAF includes this.
Just to give you an idea.....the last tactical pistol match I ran, we had everyone load thier pistol and place it (facing down range) on a stool. When you hear the buzzer, kneel, pick the pistol up with your SUPPORT hand only (that will be left for a rightie) and keep shooting the balloon that is attached to the head of a paper target. When the ballon pops, the target drops and you're done. Some got it done at 7 seconds and some in 30+.
2) Gripping your pistol too firmly .......ain't gonna get the problem solve. Recoil management starts with your stand and moves up to your grip, followed by front sight, front sight and more front sight. Don't get fooled by looking at the target instead of your front sight.
3) SIG P226 - I've seen one drop light steel targets at 100 yards. The pistol is only as accurate as the operator up to a certain distance when understading ballistics really, really helps.
4) Leather holsters - in Singapore? Bad idea. They should have considered kydex.
5) The SBO is perfect to hold a thigh rig holster but it appears the SAF doesn't think much of thigh rigs. Could still have one attached directly to the belt of the SBO.
6) Concern about the pistol being snatched could be resolved using a retention holster plus a coiled lanyard (if needed). Most have two retentions and you mostly use the 2nd during down time (koon-ing).
7) Pistol plus a total of 3 loaded magazines (one in pistol) will not weigh you down. I will be concern about my state of health if it slowed me down.To issue a pistol to a person without enough training will see the person useless with it as it will not hit the target.
Amen, brother.
Anyway, here's a short vid of someone who rocks with one:
Strong, Support & Free Style -
Do you want to start a Fundamentals of Shooting and Ballistics in the SAF Forum?Originally posted by i-SHOT:
Tell me if you're keen..will start a sticky for you. -
hey i-shot, are you in that vid? anyway lazer i don't think starting a fundementals of shooting sticky would help anyway. not many shooters in singapore, and besides, there are already many other forums out there dedicated to the topic.. just my 2 cents.
last time i shot a glock 30(or was it a 36? cant remember) and hell the recoil was huge. couldn't hit shit. emptied a whole mag at the target at 50 yds and none hit. LOL. (it's a .45 cal btw) so malu. -
Haha, reminds me of a cha bor pilot who couldn't hit anything and kept whining that her arms were too tired liao, couldn't even hold up the pistol straight.Originally posted by palmerised:hey i-shot, are you in that vid? anyway lazer i don't think starting a fundementals of shooting sticky would help anyway. not many shooters in singapore, and besides, there are already many other forums out there dedicated to the topic.. just my 2 cents.
last time i shot a glock 30(or was it a 36? cant remember) and hell the recoil was huge. couldn't hit shit. emptied a whole mag at the target at 50 yds and none hit. LOL. (it's a .45 cal btw) so malu.
In the end the conducting officers had to 'help' her, literally stand behind her and support her arms. -
I seldom see SAF soldiers carrying pistols as a secondary weapon unlike their western counterparts
You havent seen the standard British soldier then, they dont have side arms issued to them.
[Only officers, certain vehicle crew, mp's, and in certain special circumstances. When issued it used to be the FN Browning Hi-Power, which has since been phased out of service] -
hoi hoi hoi i was young then ok.
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just curious...are RSAF pilots issued pistols when they fly?
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Saw pilot in the range on P226 b 4. my guess is P226 is their SOP items then. Remember black hawk down.. the pilot lan lan when the mob comes after him even with his MP 5 imagine our pilot ony with a p226 , thot SAF changing to P90 as the standard side arms liaoOriginally posted by sgFish:just curious...are RSAF pilots issued pistols when they fly? -
That's a very big side armOriginally posted by seancannot:thot SAF changing to P90 as the standard side arms liao
P90 is a SMG/PDW don't think it'll ever be issued as a sidearm.
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I think pilot should be issued with a bomb vest. Crash a million dollar plane still want to come back?!Originally posted by seancannot:Saw pilot in the range on P226 b 4. my guess is P226 is their SOP items then. Remember black hawk down.. the pilot lan lan when the mob comes after him even with his MP 5 imagine our pilot ony with a p226 , thot SAF changing to P90 as the standard side arms liao
Go kill yourself and take some enemies with you as repayment! -
Indeed.I would think more on the lines of the H&K USP Pistol.Lighter and more handy than the P226.Originally posted by Raptor937:That's a very big side arm
P90 is a SMG/PDW don't think it'll ever be issued as a sidearm.