AMX-13
-
Thats not a secret tank, thats the old tank that was dumped.Originally posted by zenden9:SAF secret tank ,actually it looks more like a tank destroyer!
It was amphibious, but it was phased out eventually after several years of service. -
Looks like an AMX-10 to me..Originally posted by zenden9:SAF secret tank ,actually it looks more like a tank destroyer!
-
Why phased out,I think it looks ten times better than SM-1 plus it is amphibious!Originally posted by ditzy:Thats not a secret tank, thats the old tank that was dumped. It was amphibious, but it was phased out eventually after several years of service. -
Yes,it is but with a more powerful gun and turret!Originally posted by LazerLordz:Looks like an AMX-10 to me.. -
That is no secret tank. This is the AMX-10. It have been shown in Open Houses before in both the IFV and tank variants. They are amphibious-capable. The photo is of lousy resolution though...
-
First time I see also think like that lah. They always have a reason for doing things like these. I can't remember the model name of those tanks, but can tell you 42sar used to have them in the past. But as far as I know, 42sar is always doing stunts.
-
That's the AMX-10PAC90 lah.
-
During my time in armour, I was told of how the crew trained for those tanks. I can tell you its quite a major turn off, and its still a bit hush hush. But the hush hush is probably so as not to be a major turn off.
-
I think the major turn off is because this thing still cannot shoot while moving!Originally posted by ditzy:During my time in armour, I was told of how the crew trained for those tanks. I can tell you its quite a major turn off, and its still a bit hush hush. But the hush hush is probably so as not to be a major turn off.
It is basically still an IFV or tank destroyer. SAF need more modern armour. -
No, no, no, SAF just needs more people with flexible mindsets.
-
a nicer image of the pac 90 -
Yes that the Amx-10, in 1990, MINDEF awarded Giat a contract for 22 AMX-10 PAC 90 Fire Support Vehicle (that the one in the picture) and 22 AMX-10P 25 ICVs with 25mm Dragar turret.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Looks like an AMX-10 to me..
Think they also buy it to understand more about IFV so that they can design the BIONIX. -
However we must understand that due to the terrain, which is totally different from the type of warfare we see in iraq, which see tanks crossing lots of open grounds and thus the need to fire on the move.Originally posted by zenden9:I think the major turn off is because this thing still cannot shoot while moving!
It is basically still an IFV or tank destroyer. SAF need more modern armour.
Here the tanks here will be more expected to be fighting in jungle or urban which will see more the tanks with lots of cover, and thus firing a lot more from stationary position. However as I say before, the add on ability to fire on the more is add on capabilities.
I do believe Singapore does have already a planned design of a light tanks, but is holding back the production, as amx-13 is still good. By holding back, they can also keep incorporating new technology to it, to ensure when the time they are needed, the tanks will be the best of its group. -
[quote]Originally posted by CenturionMBT:
and they were thrashed by M3s and M4s in burma[/quote
really? but what i'm saying is that our tanks should be highly mobile.... -
So......it's a secret to cover up for a costly failure?Originally posted by zenden9:I think the major turn off is because this thing still cannot shoot while moving!
It is basically still an IFV or tank destroyer. SAF need more modern armour. -
Originally posted by wonderamazement:
yep. but if you have an enemy with a bigger gun, and is as mobile as you you are pretty much dead too.
[quote]Originally posted by CenturionMBT:
[b]
and they were thrashed by M3s and M4s in burma[/quote
really? but what i'm saying is that our tanks should be highly mobile....[/b] -
Yes the stingray was suppose to be a far better tank, Singapore was interested in it also. However after the thailand army brought it, a lot of issues seem to surface including major structure fault, there where major crack in the hull for most tanks after use ! Major weld repairs was needed .Since the new was openly reported, stingray have not been popular.
Nowaday still small tanks can hide in tree line and ambush enemy forces. Yes MBT have thermal imaging device, but there is totally limitation in the use in tropical jungle. In desert or woodland, yes thermal imaging is able to penetrate the light vegetation, and spot the tanks. But with our tropical type of vegetation, you can forget it. Also with such thick vegetation, or plantation type, or urban, even a fully warm up tank signature will be totally hidden.
For targeting system it will be totally confuse by the surrounding, as too many objects, thus will in a way still go back to the good old fashion human aiming.
I give you one good example of how thermal imaging device will not work in our thick vegetation. Remember the Tekong Robber case ? If thermal imagining really works wonders, we would be have planes, helicopter, jeeps with thermal imagining targeting them out, and not doing old methods they of search. -
well even the cv 90 had problems with cracked hulls initially. has to do with trying to put such a big gun within a light tank chassis. Wonder how the united defense proposal will work out though.Originally posted by storywolf:Yes the stingray was suppose to be a far better tank, Singapore was interested in it also. However after the thailand army brought it, a lot of issues seem to surface including major structure fault, there where major crack in the hull for most tanks after use ! Major weld repairs was needed .Since the new was openly reported, stingray have not been popular.
Nowaday still small tanks can hide in tree line and ambush enemy forces. Yes MBT have thermal imaging device, but there is totally limitation in the use in tropical jungle. In desert or woodland, yes thermal imaging is able to penetrate the light vegetation, and spot the tanks. But with our tropical type of vegetation, you can forget it. Also with such thick vegetation, or plantation type, or urban, even a fully warm up tank signature will be totally hidden.
For targeting system it will be totally confuse by the surrounding, as too many objects, thus will in a way still go back to the good old fashion human aiming.
I give you one good example of how thermal imaging device will not work in our thick vegetation. Remember the Tekong Robber case ? If thermal imagining really works wonders, we would be have planes, helicopter, jeeps with thermal imagining targeting them out, and not doing old methods they of search. -
actually it depends on the training that the personnel receive,if a crew that's not well trained in handling a tank...it's pointless to have a highly mobile tank with bigger guns...and vice versa for the other party....Originally posted by CenturionMBT:yep. but if you have an enemy with a bigger gun, and is as mobile as you you are pretty much dead too. -
If I am not wrong, the replacement for the SM1 is already ready! Reason why I said this is because the SAF having a tradition of revealing sensitive equipment or units only after they turn operational. For example the BX is only revealed after it have been tested by the 42 SAR. I think this is a good idea as this will keep our potential enemies' intelligence people guessing till the last minute. This way they can also to be absolutely sure that it is working properly before people know about it. Imagine the much touted new equipment which you just revealed ran into techical difficulties just a few months later...a PR disaster! Not very good for deterrance,i supposed. I am looking forward to training in the new tank during my in-camp!
-
Putting a 90mm canon has nothing to do with the problem, it is the initial design or wielding problem. Others have even put 102mm to 120mm canon on light tanks too.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:well even the cv 90 had problems with cracked hulls initially. has to do with trying to put such a big gun within a light tank chassis. Wonder how the united defense proposal will work out though.
Which united defense proposal ? Which one, their is a few projects that they are contracted to do. -
Originally posted by ditzy:First time I see also think like that lah. They always have a reason for doing things like these. I can't remember the model name of those tanks, but can tell you 42sar used to have them in the past. But as far as I know, 42sar is always doing stunts.
-
Yes you are right, the SM1 replacement shpuld be completed possible just waiting to mass production roll out. So time back there was rumour of us getting a fleet of modern MBTs for testing for replacement for the Centurion MBT also.Originally posted by tankee1981:If I am not wrong, the replacement for the SM1 is already ready! Reason why I said this is because the SAF having a tradition of revealing sensitive equipment or units only after they turn operational. For example the BX is only revealed after it have been tested by the 42 SAR. I think this is a good idea as this will keep our potential enemies' intelligence people guessing till the last minute. This way they can also to be absolutely sure that it is working properly before people know about it. Imagine the much touted new equipment which you just revealed ran into techical difficulties just a few months later...a PR disaster! Not very good for deterrance,i supposed. I am looking forward to training in the new tank during my in-camp! -
Imagine if we have a M8 Buford derived light tank fleet with another fleet of LeClercs..
Jeez..Some people will be crapping bricks. -
the cv90 has a 120mm gun . . . . .Originally posted by storywolf:Putting a 90mm canon has nothing to do with the problem, it is the initial design or wielding problem. Others have even put 102mm to 120mm canon on light tanks too.
Which united defense proposal ? Which one, their is a few projects that they are contracted to do.