Myanmar locally produced rifles?
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hey guys, was browsing thru e Straits Times today...and on pg16, there's a pic of Myanmar soldiers...anyone knw wat weapons r they carrying?
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Pictures? NPNT...
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npnt?
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bump
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no picture no talkOriginally posted by sword:npnt? -
well.. i learn things everyday.. don't you?
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Singapore shipped a small arms factory to Myanmar. I wonder what arms they produced with it?
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SINGAPORE'S SHAMEFUL SECRET
Quick search on google threw up this article from
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2800/2863.htm
You can see a pic there and see if this is the weapon you saw on Straits Times. This is what I hate about the unscrupulous Singapore arms industry.
EMEC / MYANMAR HEAVY INDUSTRIES EMERK-3 rifle and MA-1 carbine.
Burma (official name: Myanmar) is a south-east asian country ruled by an extreme right-wing dictatorship, held by a fascist military council. Human rights are infringed day by day, oppositors are imprisoned and simply disappear from the face of the earth, public protest demonstrations, even when pacifical, are usually suppressed with the use of lethal force. This has made Burma the object of an UN armaments embargo, furthermore Burma is one of the countries blacklisted by the US Department of State and Department of Commerce, this meaning that NO american company can sell ANYTHING to Burma. Unfortnately, according to the NGO "Free Burma Coalition" and to the authoritative JANE'S DEFENCE publishment, Burma has founded an its own arms industry.
EMEC (The Electro Mechanical and Engineering Corps of the Burmese Armed Forces) are in charge to engineer new weapons. The KA-PA-SA state-owned armaments factory located in Rangoon has acquired from a now defunct italian firearms manufacturer, in 1945, the right to manufacture the TZ45 submachinegun, there known as the BA52. Long before the arms embargo struck Burma, a german engineer, called FRITZ WERNER, established there plants to manufacture G3 battle rifles; after the embargo, the factory was taken over by the military government, who renamed it MYANMAR FRITZ WERNER COMPANY (despite of their names, however, ALL the burmese arms factories are state-owned), where G3 rifles are still produced, and from where come out also G3 rifles converted under project of EMEC to feed from STANAG M16-style magazines and fire the .5'56x45mm-NATO ammunition. It's however known that EMEC has HOWEVER its own production plants, known as MYANMAR HEAVY INDUSTRIES ORGANIZATION. It's also known that countries such as Israel and Singapore often sell illegally firearms manufacturing technology to this country.
A major scandal happened when it was known that a controversial oil duct built in Burma was patrolled by guards armed with a new bull-pup rifle, called EMERK-1 and manufactured by EMEC - MYANMAR HEAVY INDUSTRIES ORGANIZATION. Before this, a chinese company called NG CHUNG-KEUNG, subsidiary of NORINCO, had shipped to Burma under burmese governmental request some exemplars of the new NORINCO QBZ-97 .5'56mm bull-pup assault rifle for evaluation. The burmese trialers were positively impressed by this weapon, but the communist chinese government didn't really wanted to sell firearms to an extreme right-wing dictatorship, and thus the shipment of the new QBZ-97 rifles to Burma were halted and further ones completely canceled.
So the burmese engineers took over the exemplars of QBZ-97 still illegally remaining on the country, and modified the project of the weapon to allow it to be manufactured with some minor modifications with the machineries they had, illegally sold to Burma by Singapore. It's also known that the EMERK-1 is slightly similar to the Steyr AUG, and that israeli IMI engineers who previously had worked to the IMI TAVOR project traveled to Burma to counsel their burmese colleagues; little is known about this EMERK-1 bull-pup rifle, except that it is in the hands of "élite" burmese troops, it's a "melange" of the chinese NORINCO QBZ-97, the singaporean ST-KINETICS SAR-21, the austrian STEYR AUG and the israeli IMI TAVOR, that it's manufactured in both AR and SAW variants and that the burmese troops that have it, especially governmental guards, don't like it because it's prone to jammings and stoppages. Instead, the MAIN weapons system of the Burmese Armed Forces is well-liked by its users. The EMERK-3 Rifle System, as posted in this pic smuggled from Burma, is an illegal copy / updated version of the israeli IMI GALIL assault rifle, manufactured under supervision of israeli consultants and with the use of israeli and singaporean mahineries shipped to Burma in violation of the UN/USA embargo.
The EMERK-3 rifle is nothing but a GALIL rifle with fixed stock. In this picture is also equipped with a BA203 40mm grenade launcher, a slightly modified illegally produced version of the american M203 grenade launcher, which makes JANE'S and FREE BURMA COALITION observers think that machineries to manufacture this launcher were also illegally shipped to Burma from USA companies, but most probably the responsible for this new embargo violation is Singapore, which has obtained the license to manufacture the american M203 to equip with it national-manufactured rifles such as the M16-S1 (singaporean copy of the AR15 assault rifle, now out of production), SAR-80 and SR88 weapons systems and the new SAR-21 bull-pup long firearms cache. When mounted on the EMERK-3 rifle, this M203-lookalike grenade launcher features also a new barrel cover for the rifle, equipped with a grenade peepsight.
The EMERK-3 RIFLE is appearently identical to the IMI GALIL exception made for some very little external carachteristics, so that the GALIL specifics are assumed to be valid for this rifle too.
The MA-1 CARBINE is a shortened copy of the EMERK-3 rifle, with a folding metal buttstock. The barrel is shorter that the one of the EMERK-3 rifle, and the similarities with the GALIL are much more pronunciated. The MA-1 features a ventilated handguard.
Both the EMERK-1 bull-pup rifle and the MYANMAR FRITZ WERNER COMPANY / EMEC prototype .5'56mm G3 version feed from STANAG M16-Style magazines, while the EMERK-3 rifle and the MA-1 carbine feed from GALIL-style 30-rounders. Other details about the burmese firearms production are scarce. This picture was ripped off from a website which a few days later disappeared from the web (shutdown by the burmese government, maybe?), and the burmese authorities by themselves are prone to use ALL ways to keep their domestic weapons production secret. -
Shameful.Originally posted by tvdog:Singapore shipped a small arms factory to Myanmar. I wonder what arms they produced with it? -
More, from Jane's. This is painful to hear but we shouldn't be blind to our government's indiscretions.
********* Chartered Industries of Singapore [CIS] **********
Singapore has provided Burma with a state-of-the-art facility to manufacture
small weapons and ordnance. The modular, prefabricated factory was designed
and built in Singapore last year by state-owned
Chartered Industries of Singapore [CIS] with assistance from Israeli
consultants believed to be current or
former employees of Israel Military Industries [IMI] last year.
The plant was tested in Singapore then dismantled and shipped to Burma in
February of this year.
It is capable of making small arms or ordnance of up to 37 mm according to
sources contacted by Jane's Defence Weekly in July. Its modular design
allows for easy
factory expansion.The Directorate of Defence Industries, Ministry of
Defence, Burma's
state-owned arms and ordinance manufacturer, took delivery of the facility.
Because of the factory's design it could conceivably have been re-assembled
within a matter of weeks.
In 1988 following the massacre of thousands of anti-Government protesters in
Rangoon and other Burmese cities, the West German Government suspended
bilateral aid to Burma and Fritz Werner stopped supplying inputs for Burma's
factories. At that time Fritz Werner was still state-owned but in 1989 it was
privatized. Following its privatization Fritz Werner appears to have quietly
resumed exports of "industrial machinery" to Burma.
In 1990 a joint venture with a book value of
$8 million was set up called Myanmar Fritz Werner Industries Ltd.
Singaporean technicians have apparently replaced most of the German technical
staff at Padaung on the opposite side of the Irrawaddy river from Prome,
though the Government of Singapore has categorically denied that Singaporean
companies are in any way engaged in arms production there. -
Apparently a subsidiary of China's state-owned Norinco supplied a small number of their new QBZ-97 bullpups to Myanmar.
The Chinese government immediately put a stop to it.
So Singapore is worst than China. We didn't supply arms but we sold them a factory and the technical knowhow to build their own weapons.
Now you know the reason why Singapore was so damn eager to get Myanmar into ASEAN.
Isn't supplying weapons to known murderers a crime in itself?
Not surprising as we are now apparently building casinos as well. Damn, our country's morals are going to the dogs. -
I will like to quote from Donald Trump's show, The Apprentice:"There is nothing personal...its just business..."
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when it comes to money, who cares about morality?Originally posted by tankee1981:I will like to quote from Donald Trump's show, The Apprentice:"There is nothing personal...its just business..." -
You must remember that the Singapore Technologies group, under which CIS / ST Kinetics falls, is a public corporation, responsible only to its shareholders. It is not the Singapore government, nor is it directly controlled by the government. What the ST group does does not represent the policy or intentions of the Singapore government.
It is dishonest to say that "Singapore" sold a factory to Myanmar. The truth is that a Singaporean company did so. There is a world of difference between the two. If an American company sold weapons to terrorists, does that mean that the US government supports terrorism? Just because we are a small country does not mean that everything can be lumped together.
That said, ST has been in many shady dealings in the past. However, in the arms industry, their behaviour is normal -- in fact quite clean. When you play in mud, you'll get muddy.
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Excuse me, a government does not control its arms industry? What else are you willing to believe?Originally posted by dkhoo:You must remember that the Singapore Technologies group, under which CIS / ST Kinetics falls, is a public corporation, responsible only to its shareholders. It is not the Singapore government, nor is it directly controlled by the government. What the ST group does does not represent the policy or intentions of the Singapore government.
It is dishonest to say that "Singapore" sold a factory to Myanmar. The truth is that a Singaporean company did so. There is a world of difference between the two. If an American company sold weapons to terrorists, does that mean that the US government supports terrorism? Just because we are a small country does not mean that everything can be lumped together.
That said, ST has been in many shady dealings in the past. However, in the arms industry, their behaviour is normal -- in fact quite clean. When you play in mud, you'll get muddy.
Furthermore, the company isn't called "Singapore" Technologies for nothing. Even its former name is Chartered Industries of "Singapore".
Even furthermore, we are not talking about any government, we're talking about the Singapore government.
They are not in control of who ST sells weapons to? C'mon... -
U think a govt controls its arms industry meh?Originally posted by tvdog:Excuse me, a government does not control its arms industry? What else are you willing to believe? -
If a government does not have control over its own country's arms industries, how the hell are arms embargoes enforced?Originally posted by deathscythe99:U think a govt controls its arms industry meh?
Why so willing to absolve the government of any responsibilities? -
Arms embargoes are enforced the same way any other laws are enforced -- through the courts. If ST breaks the law, it will have to answer to a judge and face sentence. Just because it has the word "Singapore" in its name does not mean anything. You can set up a company with "Singapore" in its name just by applying to MTI for permission.
Very few countries have a nationalized arms industry. Myanmar does, but as the article indicates, that is unusual. Arms and ammo manufacture is just another industry. Look at the US -- so many gun and ammo manufacturers. Surely the US government does not control them all directly? Heck, there are many companies that make weapons only part-time. International Harvester made M1 Garand rifles at one point -- they normally make farming equipment.
Your attitude is very typically Singaporean, tvdog. The government does not control everything, not even here. You seem to have already come to a conclusion and stick to it in the absence of evidence. -
dkkhoo
In your very limited view, you forget that all the arms maker of US, though private, cannot sell arms to countries that the US govt. say they cannot sell arms to. If they do they can be prosecuted by the US courts and people will go to jail.
Very typical of people here is also that once you mention a point of view, you go all out to defend it even though you are talking rubbish.
There is an arms embargo on Myanmar because of well-recorded human rights abuses. Arms embargo mean a country cannot sell arms to that country. Since few governments actually manufacture arms, it must be apllied through governments excercising control over their arms manufacturers within its borders.
You are talking about selling weapons here and not cookies. A private or public company cannot make decisions to sell weapons without the consent of its government who issue policies regarding the provision of war material to other countries.
Yes there are people like you who find ways around such a ruling. Many of them work for ST. -
Say it isn't so, joe.
Please say that all this is some sick joke.
Why are we helping a bunch of despicable inhumans who would spit on basic human rights and keep freedom firmly locked in a cage? Why are we trading in our moral principles for a stack of dollar bills and arming the very ones who would show the finger in the face of democracy?
If all this is true... then I'm convinced once and for all that I was a fool to have seen the PAP as my heroes as I was growing up.
The bandage would be completely ripped off from my very eyes, exposing them to the very ugly truth.
I'll never be able to say the National Pledge again with pride and honour, knowing what an empty and hypocritical ring those words have to my ears.
It doesn't matter whether ST/CIS had done this with or without the blessings of our government.... even if our government had not had a hand in it, it still has a moral obligation to stop it.
The day we sell our moral principles for a stack of greenbacks is the day we sell our souls to the devil. -
People, there is still a possibility that the report is false or not accurate. Janes may not always get the exact right info right?
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Actually they best part was Singapore selling Bofors spares and even some fully assembled guns to them. That got us a nice little arms embargo from Sweden.
Too bad for them we' make up 1/3 of they're arms exports so they gave in to business pressure.
And tvdog what those guys say is true.
While ST engineer is a Singapore owned company and it's major shareholder is Temasek holdings, it is still a PLC and not directly contorlled by the government. -
haha..didn't realise npnt meant no pic no talk...afraid i dun haf e pic..but if u haf a copy of e straits times u can haf a look at it la...paiseh
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hey thanx dude... e pic in e website seems to be exactly e same as wat i saw in e straits times....Originally posted by tvdog:SINGAPORE'S SHAMEFUL SECRET
Quick search on google threw up this article from
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2800/2863.htm
You can see a pic there and see if this is the weapon you saw on Straits Times. This is what I hate about the unscrupulous Singapore arms industry.
EMEC / MYANMAR HEAVY INDUSTRIES EMERK-3 rifle and MA-1 carbine.
Burma (official name: Myanmar) is a south-east asian country ruled by an extreme right-wing dictatorship, held by a fascist military council. Human rights are infringed day by day, oppositors are imprisoned and simply disappear from the face of the earth, public protest demonstrations, even when pacifical, are usually suppressed with the use of lethal force. This has made Burma the object of an UN armaments embargo, furthermore Burma is one of the countries blacklisted by the US Department of State and Department of Commerce, this meaning that NO american company can sell ANYTHING to Burma. Unfortnately, according to the NGO "Free Burma Coalition" and to the authoritative JANE'S DEFENCE publishment, Burma has founded an its own arms industry.
EMEC (The Electro Mechanical and Engineering Corps of the Burmese Armed Forces) are in charge to engineer new weapons. The KA-PA-SA state-owned armaments factory located in Rangoon has acquired from a now defunct italian firearms manufacturer, in 1945, the right to manufacture the TZ45 submachinegun, there known as the BA52. Long before the arms embargo struck Burma, a german engineer, called FRITZ WERNER, established there plants to manufacture G3 battle rifles; after the embargo, the factory was taken over by the military government, who renamed it MYANMAR FRITZ WERNER COMPANY (despite of their names, however, ALL the burmese arms factories are state-owned), where G3 rifles are still produced, and from where come out also G3 rifles converted under project of EMEC to feed from STANAG M16-style magazines and fire the .5'56x45mm-NATO ammunition. It's however known that EMEC has HOWEVER its own production plants, known as MYANMAR HEAVY INDUSTRIES ORGANIZATION. It's also known that countries such as Israel and Singapore often sell illegally firearms manufacturing technology to this country.
A major scandal happened when it was known that a controversial oil duct built in Burma was patrolled by guards armed with a new bull-pup rifle, called EMERK-1 and manufactured by EMEC - MYANMAR HEAVY INDUSTRIES ORGANIZATION. Before this, a chinese company called NG CHUNG-KEUNG, subsidiary of NORINCO, had shipped to Burma under burmese governmental request some exemplars of the new NORINCO QBZ-97 .5'56mm bull-pup assault rifle for evaluation. The burmese trialers were positively impressed by this weapon, but the communist chinese government didn't really wanted to sell firearms to an extreme right-wing dictatorship, and thus the shipment of the new QBZ-97 rifles to Burma were halted and further ones completely canceled.
So the burmese engineers took over the exemplars of QBZ-97 still illegally remaining on the country, and modified the project of the weapon to allow it to be manufactured with some minor modifications with the machineries they had, illegally sold to Burma by Singapore. It's also known that the EMERK-1 is slightly similar to the Steyr AUG, and that israeli IMI engineers who previously had worked to the IMI TAVOR project traveled to Burma to counsel their burmese colleagues; little is known about this EMERK-1 bull-pup rifle, except that it is in the hands of "élite" burmese troops, it's a "melange" of the chinese NORINCO QBZ-97, the singaporean ST-KINETICS SAR-21, the austrian STEYR AUG and the israeli IMI TAVOR, that it's manufactured in both AR and SAW variants and that the burmese troops that have it, especially governmental guards, don't like it because it's prone to jammings and stoppages. Instead, the MAIN weapons system of the Burmese Armed Forces is well-liked by its users. The EMERK-3 Rifle System, as posted in this pic smuggled from Burma, is an illegal copy / updated version of the israeli IMI GALIL assault rifle, manufactured under supervision of israeli consultants and with the use of israeli and singaporean mahineries shipped to Burma in violation of the UN/USA embargo.
The EMERK-3 rifle is nothing but a GALIL rifle with fixed stock. In this picture is also equipped with a BA203 40mm grenade launcher, a slightly modified illegally produced version of the american M203 grenade launcher, which makes JANE'S and FREE BURMA COALITION observers think that machineries to manufacture this launcher were also illegally shipped to Burma from USA companies, but most probably the responsible for this new embargo violation is Singapore, which has obtained the license to manufacture the american M203 to equip with it national-manufactured rifles such as the M16-S1 (singaporean copy of the AR15 assault rifle, now out of production), SAR-80 and SR88 weapons systems and the new SAR-21 bull-pup long firearms cache. When mounted on the EMERK-3 rifle, this M203-lookalike grenade launcher features also a new barrel cover for the rifle, equipped with a grenade peepsight.
The EMERK-3 RIFLE is appearently identical to the IMI GALIL exception made for some very little external carachteristics, so that the GALIL specifics are assumed to be valid for this rifle too.
The MA-1 CARBINE is a shortened copy of the EMERK-3 rifle, with a folding metal buttstock. The barrel is shorter that the one of the EMERK-3 rifle, and the similarities with the GALIL are much more pronunciated. The MA-1 features a ventilated handguard.
Both the EMERK-1 bull-pup rifle and the MYANMAR FRITZ WERNER COMPANY / EMEC prototype .5'56mm G3 version feed from STANAG M16-Style magazines, while the EMERK-3 rifle and the MA-1 carbine feed from GALIL-style 30-rounders. Other details about the burmese firearms production are scarce. This picture was ripped off from a website which a few days later disappeared from the web (shutdown by the burmese government, maybe?), and the burmese authorities by themselves are prone to use ALL ways to keep their domestic weapons production secret.
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and Temasek is affliated with who?
i believe in instances like this, all parties are guilty. whatever the reasons behind the trade, we'll never know. was it purely for financial gain? i don't believe so, it wouldn't be worth the risk then.