Increase BMT Difficulty
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walk blindly will cause u to trip and cause injuries as well.Originally posted by crazy monkey:log pt is bad causes wrist injuries
which exercise have no potentional of causing injuries? -
Get him to join SOF......that will be the toughest....n they will send u to oversea training which are much more tougher which are not govern by our TSR....
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1 week bmt can?Originally posted by keuriseudo:I would like to request for a 7-week BMT...
Anyone on my side???
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Yes, but what we want to do is to take calculated risks. Log PT- No obvious advantages.Originally posted by kops21:walk blindly will cause u to trip and cause injuries as well.
which exercise have no potentional of causing injuries?
An injured soldier is a liability. -
Well gonna ORD soon so nt my problem if they want to increase hw many yrs. But if i am abt to enlist. i will skin u alive
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u wan u go iraq there train. dun type type here type type there in front of the computer.Originally posted by Sardaukar:Having gone through the 9 week BMT course,I feel that there needs to be a reassessment of our BMT difficulty.
First of all,while all major components of the training can be scheduled to take place within 9 weeks,I feel that a return to the 10-week BMT would allow better physical and mental conditioning of our troops,and to perhaps make the BMT Graduation March 28 km instead of 24 km,to increase the baseline resilience of our recruits.
Currently,the major components of the BMT are:
IPPT
Route Marches
Basic Assault Course
Field Camp
Sit-Test
Live Range
IMT
BCCT
SOC
While all the components are easily manageable,I feel that the physical training components of our BMT need to be enhanced.Currently,for BMT we have AGR(Ability Group Run),Strength Trainings,Combat PT and IPPT Skills Training.
Perhaps those NSFs currently in service and NSmen can petition somehow for the reintroduction of Log PT,Rifle PT(which was minimal in my BMT coy) and more strenous physical training as a way of hardening our recruits more,as well as giving CSMs more leeway in administrating coy training and welfare.While I'm all for the new 3G Army,we should have elements of 2G training as well.
Furthermore,they should not consider the BMT period part of NS.They should consider NS as starting once you get into SISPEC,OCS or get assigned to a unit,and instead should label BMT as a paramilitary phase of training of sorts. -
Haha.Well said dude.Originally posted by usck:u wan u go iraq there train. dun type type here type type there in front of the computer. -
hey well at least give the guy some credit for having the stones to post what he truly felt despite knowing what kind of reception it'd get from the majority of forumers - downright hostile in some cases.Originally posted by usck:u wan u go iraq there train. dun type type here type type there in front of the computer.
and really - don't you think bmt is getting slacker and slacker these days?
while i don't agree that log pt and some of the other things sardaukar mentioned should be reintroduced; as someone pointed out there are other exercises which can replace its function with less adverse stress on the body, but still, i do agree that bmt could stand to be toughened up somewhat.
i'm not suggesting we insert tekkan sessions into the training programme or whatever, but things like increasing route march lengths, lengthening field camp duration - where there is a plausible reason to do so, and it is within reasonable limits - why not?
the objective is not always going to be within 24km away; if war were to break out we'd all be in the jungle a helluva lot longer than 7 days or however long field camp is nowadays and so on.
the most important benefit a tougher bmt would impart is mental - inculcating the mindset in a recruit that he can take a lot more than he thought he could.
when i was in bmt i thought - omigod how am i going to survive field camp? so many days without a shower, in the same one or two pairs of uniform - but everyone made it out of the 20 days on tekong with a sense of relief, yes, but also achievement and pride that we had done what we never imagined was possible.
obviously somebody going through it right now or someone soon to go through it would be screaming bloody murder, but there are lots of things people don't enjoy doing, yet which are good for them, e.g. exercise - most people don't enjoy it much but who can deny its benefits?
big picture, y'know? -
ultimately, have u MET the topic starter in real life? I have. 'Nuff said.Originally posted by quivalen:hey well at least give the guy some credit for having the stones to post what he truly felt despite knowing what kind of reception it'd get from the majority of forumers - downright hostile in some cases.
and really - don't you think bmt is getting slacker and slacker these days?
while i don't agree that log pt and some of the other things sardaukar mentioned should be reintroduced; as someone pointed out there are other exercises which can replace its function with less adverse stress on the body, but still, i do agree that bmt could stand to be toughened up somewhat.
i'm not suggesting we insert tekkan sessions into the training programme or whatever, but things like increasing route march lengths, lengthening field camp duration - where there is a plausible reason to do so, and it is within reasonable limits - why not?
the objective is not always going to be within 24km away; if war were to break out we'd all be in the jungle a helluva lot longer than 7 days or however long field camp is nowadays and so on.
the most important benefit a tougher bmt would impart is mental - inculcating the mindset in a recruit that he can take a lot more than he thought he could.
when i was in bmt i thought - omigod how am i going to survive field camp? so many days without a shower, in the same one or two pairs of uniform - but everyone made it out of the 20 days on tekong with a sense of relief, yes, but also achievement and pride that we had done what we never imagined was possible.
obviously somebody going through it right now or someone soon to go through it would be screaming bloody murder, but there are lots of things people don't enjoy doing, yet which are good for them, e.g. exercise - most people don't enjoy it much but who can deny its benefits?
big picture, y'know? -
have i the topic started in real life?Originally posted by HENG@:ultimately, have u the topic starter in real life? I have. 'Nuff said.
what? -
Increase BMT Difficulty
u think this is a video game ah? got "Easy", "Normal", "Hard", "Very Hard" difficulties. -
Dude, there are reasons why BMT is what BMT is todae. As I said before, you have to look at the general young men population entering NS, their background, their educational status, etc.Originally posted by quivalen:hey well at least give the guy some credit for having the stones to post what he truly felt despite knowing what kind of reception it'd get from the majority of forumers - downright hostile in some cases.
and really - don't you think bmt is getting slacker and slacker these days?
while i don't agree that log pt and some of the other things sardaukar mentioned should be reintroduced; as someone pointed out there are other exercises which can replace its function with less adverse stress on the body, but still, i do agree that bmt could stand to be toughened up somewhat.
i'm not suggesting we insert tekkan sessions into the training programme or whatever, but things like increasing route march lengths, lengthening field camp duration - where there is a plausible reason to do so, and it is within reasonable limits - why not?
the objective is not always going to be within 24km away; if war were to break out we'd all be in the jungle a helluva lot longer than 7 days or however long field camp is nowadays and so on.
the most important benefit a tougher bmt would impart is mental - inculcating the mindset in a recruit that he can take a lot more than he thought he could.
when i was in bmt i thought - omigod how am i going to survive field camp? so many days without a shower, in the same one or two pairs of uniform - but everyone made it out of the 20 days on tekong with a sense of relief, yes, but also achievement and pride that we had done what we never imagined was possible.
obviously somebody going through it right now or someone soon to go through it would be screaming bloody murder, but there are lots of things people don't enjoy doing, yet which are good for them, e.g. exercise - most people don't enjoy it much but who can deny its benefits?
big picture, y'know?
The BMT then has to be balance between the training limits and the mental limits of our current state of our men and to do that you just can't look at few "garang" soldiers.
Even the recently announced NS term down to 2 years is also based on the goverment assessing the manpower situation for the coming years. So for BMT to become BMT of todae, is also based on the current cohort of men, isn't it? -
Lets hope one day u wont be the minister of Defence.....Originally posted by Sardaukar:Having gone through the 9 week BMT course,I feel that there needs to be a reassessment of our BMT difficulty.
First of all,while all major components of the training can be scheduled to take place within 9 weeks,I feel that a return to the 10-week BMT would allow better physical and mental conditioning of our troops,and to perhaps make the BMT Graduation March 28 km instead of 24 km,to increase the baseline resilience of our recruits.
Currently,the major components of the BMT are:
IPPT
Route Marches
Basic Assault Course
Field Camp
Sit-Test
Live Range
IMT
BCCT
SOC
While all the components are easily manageable,I feel that the physical training components of our BMT need to be enhanced.Currently,for BMT we have AGR(Ability Group Run),Strength Trainings,Combat PT and IPPT Skills Training.
Perhaps those NSFs currently in service and NSmen can petition somehow for the reintroduction of Log PT,Rifle PT(which was minimal in my BMT coy) and more strenous physical training as a way of hardening our recruits more,as well as giving CSMs more leeway in administrating coy training and welfare.While I'm all for the new 3G Army,we should have elements of 2G training as well.
Furthermore,they should not consider the BMT period part of NS.They should consider NS as starting once you get into SISPEC,OCS or get assigned to a unit,and instead should label BMT as a paramilitary phase of training of sorts. -
"mental limits of our current state of men"?Originally posted by octega:Dude, there are reasons why BMT is what BMT is todae. As I said before, you have to look at the general young men population entering NS, their background, their educational status, etc.
The BMT then has to be balance between the training limits and the mental limits of our current state of our men and to do that you just can't look at few "garang" soldiers.
Even the recently announced NS term down to 2 years is also based on the goverment assessing the manpower situation for the coming years. So for BMT to become BMT of todae, is also based on the current cohort of men, isn't it?
so you're essentially saying BMT has slackened over the years because each batch of enlistees has gotten softer and softer, right? well that's of course impossible to quantify but yes, probably to some extent recruits now are used to a better life. but again, its all about mental strength - just because you're used to aircon all day and being chauffered around doesn't make you fundamentally weaker - rather it just means being enlisted will come as a bigger culture shock and you may take a longer acclimatisation period - but it doesn't make you, by definition, any less capable.
and come now, the things i've suggested aren't going to kill even the softest recruit around.
i myself was far from a "garang soldier" as you say and i definitely felt i benefited from tough training. obviously not while i was undergoing it, but looking back i can safely say i don't regret being posted to my unit and getting tougher training compared to BMTC. these things are like that - you'll only appreciate them after you've done it. -
my bad. missed out a "MET"Originally posted by quivalen:have i the topic started in real life?
what? -
err okay but i still don't get you.Originally posted by HENG@:my bad. missed out a "MET"
what does your meeting sardaukar have to do with my agreeing with some of his points? -
i have been throught both Navy and Army BMT...
though the Navy bmt module does not include field camp, and the route march is only 8km max...i can say that...the navy bmt was more physically and mentally stressful...our instructors were also from SISPEC...till now i fcuking detest them...really sadist bunch of mofos. Us smokers especially were almost treated like dogs...with the instructors hanging a cigarette like a bone. They always said that us Navy recruits have an easy life after passing out from BMT...so when they tekan us they are doing us a favour...I don't know how the current bunch of instructors are like, but my batch....curse them.
I recall one incident. We were sleeping in the middle of the night...when the fire alarm rang. All of us had to fall in for a simulated fire drill. Once we all fell in, the tekan session started. I won't say how much shit we did for fear of drawing comparisions or people talking shit...but enough to make quite a few people vomit. After that we had a water parade. When my spec walked up to me to check if my water bottle was full, (it was only less than a CM from the brim) he whacked the bottle out of my hand, it hit my face. He then picked it up and hurled it away, and told me i had 10 seconds to find my water bottle. As it was dark, i had a hard time finding it. Once my time was up he knocked the whole coy down while i was still blindly looking for it, and he still had the cheek to say, "nevermind slowly take ur time, ur friends are suffering because of you."
After the tekan session, we were ordered to change into our smartest 4 and standby cupboard in 10 mins time. Possible? Many of us had our smart 4 sleeves pulled down, cupboards messed up, beds overturned, everything in/out in 30 seconds, i think the older soldiers here know the drill...
The weird thing is, even though that night was a nightmare, i think i learned more about discipline and ESP integrity that night than in my whole life before...so i guess tekan sessions DO help to a certain extent...one huge test of mental and physical endurance...though its nothing compared to the NDU's Hell Week... -
lets put it this way. if u knew him fully and he was standing in front of u saying all these, u would be either inclined to laugh at him or punch him. at least he has the guts to post all these u say? hey its not too difficult to post something controversal here. I should know. I've been in more than my fair share of flame wars. But it does help when you truely believe in what you're posting here you know?Originally posted by quivalen:err okay but i still don't get you.
what does your meeting sardaukar have to do with my agreeing with some of his points?
Anyways so what if BMT is getting more slack? there are plenty of opportunities to get tougher in the unit themselves. u want tough from the start, no one's stopping u from signing on. -
Your spec thinks he's Tiger Woods, with all that new-fangled eyesight.Less than a CM is not measurable by the human eye.And at night, lighting is bad, so he just wanted to knock you guys down for fun.Sadistic and undeserving to wear his stripes.Originally posted by Hellraiza:i have been throught both Navy and Army BMT...
though the Navy bmt module does not include field camp, and the route march is only 8km max...i can say that...the navy bmt was more physically and mentally stressful...our instructors were also from SISPEC...till now i fcuking detest them...really sadist bunch of mofos. Us smokers especially were almost treated like dogs...with the instructors hanging a cigarette like a bone. They always said that us Navy recruits have an easy life after passing out from BMT...so when they tekan us they are doing us a favour...I don't know how the current bunch of instructors are like, but my batch....curse them.
I recall one incident. We were sleeping in the middle of the night...when the fire alarm rang. All of us had to fall in for a simulated fire drill. Once we all fell in, the tekan session started. I won't say how much shit we did for fear of drawing comparisions or people talking shit...but enough to make quite a few people vomit. After that we had a water parade. When my spec walked up to me to check if my water bottle was full, (it was only less than a CM from the brim) he whacked the bottle out of my hand, it hit my face. He then picked it up and hurled it away, and told me i had 10 seconds to find my water bottle. As it was dark, i had a hard time finding it. Once my time was up he knocked the whole coy down while i was still blindly looking for it, and he still had the cheek to say, "nevermind slowly take ur time, ur friends are suffering because of you."
This is one incident i won't forget. I think it's impossible to see this in Tekong now...? -
u know whats the best thing lazerlordz?
The next morning when we were seated in the lecture room, my PS sauntered in and said, "gentlemen, last night song bo?" if i had the balls then i would have punched him. (recruit time humji lah i admit) Then my PC added, gentlemen, the firedrill tekan session is a tradition here in XXXX, tells you that ur honeymoon period in BMT is over...he still got the cheek to tell a recruit who lost his slipper while he was running to the training shed carrying the fire extinguisher, "don't go and tell ur mummy u lost ur slipper when ur sergeant tekan you okay? i give you emart break later to go buy a new pair,you can use my credit if you want."
this kind of officer pui chao nua. -
well it doesn't have any bearing on the discussion here so lets just leave it at that.Originally posted by HENG@:lets put it this way. if u knew him fully and he was standing in front of u saying all these, u would be either inclined to laugh at him or punch him. at least he has the guts to post all these u say? hey its not too difficult to post something controversal here. I should know. I've been in more than my fair share of flame wars. But it does help when you truely believe in what you're posting here you know? Anyways so what if BMT is getting more slack? there are plenty of opportunities to get tougher in the unit themselves. u want tough from the start, no one's stopping u from signing on.
looking through this thread, the 2 most common types of responses are the downright hostile and/or facetious, and "so garang? sign on lah!"
both are equally unconstructive.
might i also point out that if you were to sign on, you'd most like still undergo your bmt at BMTC so your last sentence really holds no water.
you say there's plenty of opportunities for tougher training after bmt - well why is there a need to draw the line between bmt / unit? does 3 months make a very big difference? why just because its bmt then training has to be slacker, but when u go to a unit then its ok to be tough? why not tough from the very start? if not the poor recruit is going to have a double culture shock - when he first enlists and on his first day in unit.
somebody is probably going to hop in now and say, oh, "its Bmt - BASIC military training - its only supposed to be an introduction to army life blah blah blah". well to these people i refer you to my previous post - i'm not saying we throw enlistees into a NDU hellweek, or go for a 72k route march or whatever. and i reiterate my point that the most important thing you'd get out of tougher training is not physical but rather, increased mental toughness. -
Originally posted by quivalen:
you say there's plenty of opportunities for tougher training after bmt - well why is there a need to draw the line between bmt / unit? does 3 months make a very big difference? why just because its bmt then training has to be slacker, but when u go to a unit then its ok to be tough? why not tough from the very start? if not the poor recruit is going to have a double culture shock - when he first enlists and on his first day in unit.
Because BMT serves to weed out the soldiers who are not suitable for those types of training. Hence some ppl get OOC, some downgrade, some get into combat vocations, and some get into service vocations.
somebody is probably going to hop in now and say, oh, "its Bmt - BASIC military training - its only supposed to be an introduction to army life blah blah blah". well to these people i refer you to my previous post - i'm not saying we throw enlistees into a NDU hellweek, or go for a 72k route march or whatever. and i reiterate my point that the most important thing you'd get out of tougher training is not physical but rather, increased mental toughness.
You have not given much details about what changes you want to make to BMT; what are the changes you are proposing? Bear in mind that many recruits were fat, pimply, hormonally charged school kids just weeks before. -
My sympathies.Originally posted by Hellraiza:u know whats the best thing lazerlordz?
The next morning when we were seated in the lecture room, my PS sauntered in and said, "gentlemen, last night song bo?" if i had the balls then i would have punched him. (recruit time humji lah i admit) Then my PC added, gentlemen, the firedrill tekan session is a tradition here in XXXX, tells you that ur honeymoon period in BMT is over...he still got the cheek to tell a recruit who lost his slipper while he was running to the training shed carrying the fire extinguisher, "don't go and tell ur mummy u lost ur slipper when ur sergeant tekan you okay? i give you emart break later to go buy a new pair,you can use my credit if you want."
this kind of officer pui chao nua. -
actually i did mention a few changes - longer route march, lengthened field camp duration.Originally posted by lwflee:Because BMT serves to weed out the soldiers who are not suitable for those types of training. Hence some ppl get OOC, some downgrade, some get into combat vocations, and some get into service vocations.
You have not given much details about what changes you want to make to BMT; what are the changes you are proposing? Bear in mind that many recruits were fat, pimply, hormonally charged school kids just weeks before.
also it'd be good if commanders were given some leeway to tekkan their men. no - tekkan isn't the right word - rather, discipline when justified.
i know this is rather like opening pandora's box - where do you draw the line at what's justifiable and all that - but what i'm angling at is to get rid of this saf-hotline-culture where the moment the recruit is made to do something he doesn't like, he calls the hotline, or goes crying bloody murder to his parents/uncle/grandpa/mp/maid etc. and i'm sure we all know what is most likely to happen in the event of a complaint - the commander who instituted the punishment will get his ass handed to him, regardless of whether it was justifiable or not. why? because the saf will bend over backwards to pacify parents/uncle/grandpa/maid if he/she's making a big enough ruckus. -
u sure? there was a big public ruckus over the er... xtreme ill treatment of some trainees and till date the perpetrators haven't been punished yet, and its been almost 2 years since the incident. when it comes to depending on SAF to despense justice, i personally doubt if i can trust them.Originally posted by quivalen:actually i did mention a few changes - longer route march, lengthened field camp duration.
also it'd be good if commanders were given some leeway to tekkan their men. no - tekkan isn't the right word - rather, discipline when justified.
i know this is rather like opening pandora's box - where do you draw the line at what's justifiable and all that - but what i'm angling at is to get rid of this saf-hotline-culture where the moment the recruit is made to do something he doesn't like, he calls the hotline, or goes crying bloody murder to his parents/uncle/grandpa/mp/maid etc. and i'm sure we all know what is most likely to happen in the event of a complaint - the commander who instituted the punishment will get his ass handed to him, regardless of whether it was justifiable or not. why? because the saf will bend over backwards to pacify parents/uncle/grandpa/maid if he/she's making a big enough ruckus.