Dad's Army - Volunteer to extend your reservist duty?
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There are many men in their late 40's or 50's whom have finished serving NS and still in considerably good healthy condition.
After so many years of valuable military training plus their own life experience these men can continue to be very useful to SAF.
Some of these men may actually want to continue serving in a reduced capacity in SAF.
So should SAF start a programme where these men can volunteer to continue to serve yearly ICTs?
One way is to start a Home Guards Division where these older men can be like a last line of defense or help police provide armed security for civilian areas in wartime. Or these men can be trained to operate light AA weapons. During WW2 England had the Home Guards made of men either too old or unfit to be in the regular army.
Another way is to let these men remain in their unit in admin or other non-combat posts like armskoteman, armourer, QM, weapons instructors etc. This would relieve a lot of younger men so they can go out to the field instead of languishing in the camp. -
Good idea,
we can safely fight in the frontline, knowing we have old fogeys protecting our wives and children.
Raise it up to your nearest frenly MP.
Maybe we can have a debate, have a survey, and probably, a rehab centre to treat paranoid army personnels and uncles who want to extend their reservist.
Excellent idea!
PEETCHA Lah!!!
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anyway if im not mistaken it is possible to volunteer for service currently.
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Yes - there are people who have completed their 13 year cycle ICT and take up another cycle.
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only officers do thatOriginally posted by bcoy:Yes - there are people who have completed their 13 year cycle ICT and take up another cycle. -
I think it is only open to officers.Originally posted by dragg:only officers do that
I come up with this idea is of course I would want to volunteer for it.
But there is another reason. We are short of manpower and yet the non-combat roles are filled with able-bodied young men.
To begin with, Battalion HQ is filled with combat fit personnel. This job can be easily done by older reservists who have vast experience in this area. Then the Battalion QM and Medical Centre can similarly make use of this untapped manpower. These guys may only leave camp to deliver supplies and food. Definitely non-combat. Send all the storemen and medical centre personnel back to company line and give them a weapon.
This is only the tip of the iceberg. As you go into the Signal Corps, Armour, Air Force etc... you can put in all these older men with vast experience that can take up the non-combat roles.
As you well know, every modern army is something like 40% combat troops supported by 60% non-combat personnel. If we can release half of that 60% into combat roles, think of how many more battalions we can create! -
Young man, try go take your IPPT while you r in your mid 30s and see for yourself b4 you make this statements.Originally posted by tvdog:There are many men in their late 40's or 50's whom have finished serving NS and still in considerably good healthy condition.
After so many years of valuable military training plus their own life experience these men can continue to be very useful to SAF.
Some of these men may actually want to continue serving in a reduced capacity in SAF.
So should SAF start a programme where these men can volunteer to continue to serve yearly ICTs?
One way is to start a Home Guards Division where these older men can be like a last line of defense or help police provide armed security for civilian areas in wartime. Or these men can be trained to operate light AA weapons. During WW2 England had the Home Guards made of men either too old or unfit to be in the regular army.
Another way is to let these men remain in their unit in admin or other non-combat posts like armskoteman, armourer, QM, weapons instructors etc. This would relieve a lot of younger men so they can go out to the field instead of languishing in the camp. -
First of all, I'm in my late thirties. But it is really your own fault if by your mid-thirties you can't pass IPPT in the CAT Z. Shape up, old man...Originally posted by Manager433:Young man, try go take your IPPT while you r in your mid 30s and see for yourself b4 you make this statements.
Anyway, I am talking about a STRICTLY VOLUNTARY PROGRAMME. So no one is forcing you. But there are some people who would like to remain part of the force that makes this country a militarily powerful one.
And I am talking about NON-COMBAT ROLES.
So if my job is to be the armourer, how much running do you suppose my duties needs? A 50 year old man can't repair weapons?
40 to 50 year-old men continue to work at shipyards, construction sites and other strenuous chores and I don't see them dropping dead on the job. So if a 50 year-old reservist can repair a tank why not continue to use him? Why drop him just because he can't pass the same IPPT test a 30 year-old can? -
You raise a good point, but as long as it's voluntary and the person is certified medically fit, why not.But we should not go down the route of stop-loss orders currently in force with the National Guard in US.Originally posted by tvdog:First of all, I'm in my late thirties. But it is really your own fault if by your mid-thirties you can't pass IPPT in the CAT Z. Shape up, old man...
Anyway, I am talking about a STRICTLY VOLUNTARY PROGRAMME. So no one is forcing you. But there are some people who would like to remain part of the force that makes this country a militarily powerful one.
And I am talking about NON-COMBAT ROLES.
So if my job is to be the armourer, how much running do you suppose my duties needs? A 50 year old man can't repair weapons?
40 to 50 year-old men continue to work at shipyards, construction sites and other strenuous chores and I don't see them dropping dead on the job. So if a 50 year-old reservist can repair a tank why not continue to use him? Why drop him just because he can't pass the same IPPT test a 30 year-old can? -
I'm pretty sure if you really wanted to continue after your 13 year cycle, MINDEF won't reject you, even if you aren't an officer. Actually, your unit, which I assume you would have built up a good relationship with coz of your positive attitude, won't turn you away. They'll be able to make the necessary recommendations and requests to MINDEF. There's always a back-door in if you're enthusiastic. That's one thing I've learnt.
The problem is, people like you are the exception, not the norm. Most of the reservist I've worked with can't wait for their cycle to end! -
my CSM have finished his tour of duty. But he continues to stay on for a few years now as he feel he has a bond with us and would like to follow us finish out our tour of duty. We are still 2-3years short of finishing. By then he would have complete about 5 or more years extra.
his experience is really valuable to the unit. w/o him, life back in camp will be more chaotic. Admire those that goes beyong the duty.
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No - in my ex-unit (we just ROD), some of the officers and specialists are going to continue serving past their 13 year cycle. They have been "re-cycled" to another new batch of reservists. And no, they do not owe any ICT make-ups. I guess it depends on Mindef.Originally posted by dragg:only officers do that -
What Tvdog has suggested is really not a bad ideal, seriously.
An example, there is currently no less then a company of 60 years old & above of volunteer ex-Marines in Iraq serving in non-combat roles.
Of course, the MARINE Corp has a guide line that these volunteers must satisfy before their allow back into service.
However, these older MARINEs do not necessary free the active able support MARINEs back into combat roles. What I do know is that they are mostly assigned to the Provost company to provide camp security, Prisoner control, etc.
BTW, with referrence to whoever might assume or even suggest that old soldiers are useless in combat, should've check out how a few of those old MARINEs were part of the younger fighting MARINEs beating back the militant attack at a base in Iraq recently. Everyone grows old but not every old man are weak from sitting on their arse after leaving the service. -
I read about an MP force made up of National Guardsmen beating back a coordinated Iraqi insurgent attack that outnumbered them 5 to 1.Originally posted by John Ching:What Tvdog has suggested is really not a bad ideal, seriously.
An example, there is currently no less then a company of 60 years old & above of volunteer ex-Marines in Iraq serving in non-combat roles.
Of course, the MARINE Corp has a guide line that these volunteers must satisfy before their allow back into service.
However, these older MARINEs do not necessary free the active able support MARINEs back into combat roles. What I do know is that they are mostly assigned to the Provost company to provide camp security, Prisoner control, etc.
BTW, with referrence to whoever might assume or even suggest that old soldiers are useless in combat, should've check out how a few of those old MARINEs were part of the younger fighting MARINEs beating back the militant attack at a base in Iraq recently. Everyone grows old but not every old man are weak from sitting on their arse after leaving the service. -
This incident in Iraq again proves the point that when it comes to a shooting war, a lot of people, whatever their age, would rather be shooting back than hiding.
But in order to keep fighting, we must continue to receive some military training and weapons update.
So for reservists whom are dischared after finishing service, they should be allowed to either extend their cycle, or receive "Weekend Warrior" classes several weekends a year.
In these "Weekend Warrior" volunteers will receive only transportation allowances.
There will be no charging hill or crawling through mud. Instead volunteers are given refresher training on weapons and equipment. they can go for range or practice driving army vehicles. They can also receive familiarisation training on new stuff. -
after spending your most precious and healthy years and more than half a lifetime of protecting what is not ours and protecting the ruling dynasty, you still want to spend extra time back in there?
might as well sign on in the first place. -
Ya, in fact, there are a few fellows that I know came back after their cycle. They are mainly regular officers holding command position. I think their years experience are in demand and of course if you are they long enough, you will have some kind of bond with the unit and the men. So most of them are doing for the unit and the men.Originally posted by lution:after spending your most precious and healthy years and more than half a lifetime of protecting what is not ours and protecting the ruling dynasty, you still want to spend extra time back in there?
might as well sign on in the first place.
With regards to protecting what is not ours and protecting the ruling dynasty. That is very subjective. I would not say this is my land, cos I don't own it. And I am not a patroit. But I believe a lot of NS men will fight cos they wives, kids and their parents are all in Singapore. Most important thing is the way of life that we are so used to, be it you like it or not. If all these are not yours, I guess you are pretty much a loner or you got nothing in Singapore... -
I would volunteer to return to my former unit (hahaha, if they need me) if there is a crisis. But I may not necessarily volunteer for ICT each year. Need to balance my career and family and hobbies now. There are many other ways to contribute to Singapore's defence.
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Frankly, if my family and loved ones are here, il fight.If there is nothing for me to fight for, why stay.Logical.Originally posted by freeman8:Ya, in fact, there are a few fellows that I know came back after their cycle. They are mainly regular officers holding command position. I think their years experience are in demand and of course if you are they long enough, you will have some kind of bond with the unit and the men. So most of them are doing for the unit and the men.
With regards to protecting what is not ours and protecting the ruling dynasty. That is very subjective. I would not say this is my land, cos I don't own it. And I am not a patroit. But I believe a lot of NS men will fight cos they wives, kids and their parents are all in Singapore. Most important thing is the way of life that we are so used to, be it you like it or not. If all these are not yours, I guess you are pretty much a loner or you got nothing in Singapore... -
Ya..my ex-CO did 17 high-key ICT...volunteer. Really on...Originally posted by dragg:only officers do that -
no thks..Originally posted by bcoy:Yes - there are people who have completed their 13 year cycle ICT and take up another cycle.
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There is already men that are for Home Defense... the PDF lor.Originally posted by tvdog:There are many men in their late 40's or 50's whom have finished serving NS and still in considerably good healthy condition.
After so many years of valuable military training plus their own life experience these men can continue to be very useful to SAF.
Some of these men may actually want to continue serving in a reduced capacity in SAF.
So should SAF start a programme where these men can volunteer to continue to serve yearly ICTs?
One way is to start a Home Guards Division where these older men can be like a last line of defense or help police provide armed security for civilian areas in wartime. Or these men can be trained to operate light AA weapons. During WW2 England had the Home Guards made of men either too old or unfit to be in the regular army.
Another way is to let these men remain in their unit in admin or other non-combat posts like armskoteman, armourer, QM, weapons instructors etc. This would relieve a lot of younger men so they can go out to the field instead of languishing in the camp.
And light AA is not so easy to operate. And you need training in IFF also. What if you shoot down your own F16s??
In a hi-tech world, "manpower" as in headcount is less important compared to having hi-tech assets and having "highly-trained" manpower to operate them.
Currently, in my unit, already got "downgraded" combat-voc personnel serving in such service roles like QM and so on.....
Also many of the support/service roles are filled by men that are not fully combat fit. so having their jobs done by other people will not free them up for frontline service.
But overall, I think it is good idea for these Uncles to continue to serve if they want to. but for a military to suceed, they have to have obligations..... these volunteerign basis will not work....
if i activate my "uncle" platoon, how many men will turn up if it is stricly volunteer....
so basically if they want to "volunteer", they have to commit for a certain "duration" like 3 years... and the entire group can serve as a "unit" for 3 years.
After 3 years when their "term" is up, those that "re-enlist" will continue another 3 years...
During training they will take on roles similar to PDF as in protection of key installation etc.... And during war time will be deployed accordingly.
I feel that if they form this, the unit's morale and motivation should be very high... since they are all "volunteers"! but then the downside is that these men didn't serve together in a unit during their active years so the espirt de corps might not be high. -
Right on.
And there are very examples of older men in service during WW2 mostly among the European partisans.
Also during 1967 in Israel, the combined Arab armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq wanted to destroy Israel once and for all.
Many Israeli past their service age showed up for mobilisation calls and demanded to be allowed to fight. Many were veterans of previous wars. They were accepted and given arms, I can't remember though if they joined other units or formed a home guard unit. Likely the latter.
During that time just about every one volunteered. Bus drivers in Israel contributed their bus and their service as bus drivers to ferry troops to the frontline. Housewives made food for passing troops etc.
Old Palestinian men with Lee-Enfield rifles and younger teens with Sten Guns defended their own villages against the Jews.
Sadly, the Israelis committed a lot of massacres on the Arab civilians in the territories they captured.
So it goes to show: why sit and wait for the enemy to come and slaughter you and your family? The reason I say volunteer to continue service is so that when that eventuality comes, you still know how to operate as a fighting man.