F-15T compromised?
-
i have some reservation with regards to us buying the F-15... since F-15 was a product of the company macdonell douglas... although now it belongs to boeing.
if i remember correctly.... during the previous fighter competition in singapore for RSAF between F-16 falcon and F-18 hornet...
after the F-18 lost the deal... macdonel douglas was pissed off and moved their OHQ to malaysia.
i wonder... the potential danger of an intelligience leakage since their OHQ is in malaysia...
would malaysian govt be able to "secure" informations regarding the F-15T due to the presence of malaysians working in macdonel douglass (or now boeing) OHQ in malaysia?
furthermore... subsequent orders for spare parts and weapons and other equipments would no doubt be required if we do buy the F-15T... so where do all those orders forms go? to boeing OHQ in malaysia?
wont that be shooting ourselves in the foot considering the "strain" relationship between singapore and malaysia?
furthermore... i noticed that RSN also wanted to move from harpoon to another ASM like Exocet 3... would this be related to the fact that the (boeing)OHQ for the maker of harpoon missile is in malaysia?
would it be wise to buy a weapon from any company that operates a OHQ in a potential enemy state? wont that be compromising on our intel?
any insights? -
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/produit/12117_us.html
Boeing Opens Office In Malaysia (Oct. 8 )
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia---In an effort to enhance its operations in the Southeast Asia region and to further develop a strong customer focus, The Boeing Company has opened its new office in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
"Asia is a vibrant, growing economic power and home to an increasing number of important customers and partners," said Stanley Roth, Boeing vice president of International Relations, Asia-Pacific. "The region continues to be a bright spot in the global aerospace market, and we're confident that our customers will continue to find ways to grow and prosper. We want to continue to be a valuable business partner with our regional customers, and this office enhances our ability to serve our customers more effectively."
In August of this year, Paul Walters was named to the new position of regional vice president, Southeast Asia, based in Kuala Lumpur. Walters' role is to coordinate all Boeing company business activities in a number of countries in the region, leading and facilitating Boeing's strategy and globalization process in Southeast Asia.
Walters and the Kuala Lumpur team are helping to expand Boeing's profile and presence in the region beyond the company's Singapore operation -- which is run by Boeing Senior Executive Doug Miller, and Malaysia, where Boeing now is well-represented.
Boeing works closely with aerospace industry organizations, armed forces and leading airlines in Asia, where the company's business interests are numerable and growing.
"The strength of the region, coupled with its inherent growth prospects, provide us with an excellent opportunity to expand our globalization initiatives in a meaningful way," Roth said.
Boeing is the world's largest manufacturer of commercial and military aircraft, and NASA's largest contractor. The company's capabilities include helicopters, defense systems, missiles, rocket engines, launch systems, satellites, advanced information and communication systems, aviation support products and services, financial services, a global-mobile communications system, and a space-based air traffic management system.
-ends-
Boeing Expands Southeast Asia Presence With New Kuala Lumpur Office -
Honeywell has its Asia-Pacific HQ in China, Does US and China in a honeymoon?
No need worry these commercial operations -
rest assured that the US is worried and the CIA would be keeping taps on US industries involvement in PRC... especially in areas relating to dual use technologies...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2002/020128-prc01.htm
and i quote... from the above article...
"U.S. officials who spoke at a U.S-China Commission hearing in Washington last week said, however, the United States closely monitors high-tech exports to China. Most export license requests are approved, but contain strict conditions, such as requiring follow-up inspections to make sure the equipment is being used for the approved purpose, they said. "
coming back to the topic at hand.... would you sleep easier... knowing that critical informations about your country's defence is passing freely into the hands of your potential enemy?
even if war is not gonna happen around the corner... such sensitive information which would give indications to the readiness of the RSAF could come in handy to the malaysian govt, during bilateral negotiation from topic A to Z.
afterall... diplomacy without military is farce... if the malaysian caught our bluff... out goes our chips on the table.
lastly... its not just commercial deal... RSAF isnt buying boeing 747... if you check the title of my thread.... its F-15T. -
You are worrying too much, should any orders for missiles/bombs/upgrades/equipments be done , RSAF wouldn't contact the Boeing M'sia HQ ...but rather the HQ in USA.
After all Boeing M'sia doesn't make missiles/bombs/upgrades/equipments.
But in Singapore, we do produce some of it..
Perhaps its for Boeing civilian aircraft stuffs.. -
Anyway, if a someone were to see what kind of orders we do..
There can only be 2 conclusions...
1) He might not understand , what is it about due to the advanced equipment
and systems involved
2) They will panic ,
because of the quantity of the stuffs ordered /
and latest technologies involved
Either way, it spells good as a deterrent for Singapore.
but nevertheless, if our F-15T aircraft were grounded due to a lack of spare parts...Then , it would spell disaster if we order from there.. -
waah..... you look the malaysian so DOWN har?
whatever happen to NEVER underestimate your enemy?
you think malaysia is a nation of orang utan isit? -
LOL.Originally posted by tripwire:waah..... you look the malaysian so DOWN har?
whatever happen to NEVER underestimate your enemy?
you think malaysia is a nation of orang utan isit? -
compromise or not I dunno, what I do know is that these defence contractors will usually follow the american war machine & where ever there is american business presence. These large corporations have their own internal intelligence gathering depts who will analyse everything abt the american policy & where it is likely to be leaning towards .... way ahead in advance and based on that intel they will setup shop as necessary to wait & welcome the new business.
Anyway these defence contractors will only allows to setup "service related" companies in asia like MRO services, all the other "military grade" sensitive things are manufactured inside america, they are controlled by american congress and other watchdogs. -
They aren't our enemies anyway.Originally posted by tripwire:waah..... you look the malaysian so DOWN har?
whatever happen to NEVER underestimate your enemy?
you think malaysia is a nation of orang utan isit?
The Real enemy is not malaysia , but the people who purposely want to disrupt the peace
-
Caught you redhanded already.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:They aren't our enemies anyway.
The Real enemy is not malaysia , but the people who purposely want to disrupt the peace
Anyway, it could be wrong to label our neighbours as threats...as anyone with eyes can see who are the real militaristic nations in Asia. -
Caught you redhanded already.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:They aren't our enemies anyway.
The Real enemy is not malaysia , but the people who purposely want to disrupt the peace
Anyway, it could be wrong to label our neighbours as threats...as anyone with eyes can see who are the real militaristic nations in Asia. -
So, lets be real friends with M'sia and Indonesia....Originally posted by LazerLordz:Caught you redhanded already.
Anyway, it could be wrong to label our neighbours as threats...as anyone with eyes can see who are the real militaristic nations in Asia. -
To all m'sia bashers...
Kindly keep this thread peaceful and friendly instead of mudslinging...
i still want to visit JB...especially when ive got assets in m'sia.. -
oh.... real friend... like indonesia and malaysia playing knock knock ship over in ligitan and sipadan?
since when there are real friends in politics? you need to wake up...
back to topic....
as long as boeing operates their OHQ in KL... sorry.. i dont think its wise to buy from boeing...
you can call it paranoid... but i call it peace of mind... and a long term peace of mind too... considering that if we do operate F-15T... its gonna be at least 20 years of NO peace of mind.
afterall... boeing dont need the RSAF NGF contract as badly as DASSAULT... i think boeing is drooling about the " HUNDREDS and THOUDSANDS" of F-18E/F hornet that malaysia is gonna buy from them.... so they better keep their OHQ in KL... hahhahahahahahaa......
lastly... what the hell does you going to JB and owning properties in malaysia or on the moon got to do with singapore security?? many malaysian tycoons own plantation in indonesia... but that didnt stop the knock knock ship tournament over there in the east.... -
'Originally posted by tripwire:oh.... real friend... like indonesia and malaysia playing knock knock ship over in ligitan and sipadan?
since when there are real friends in politics? you need to wake up...
back to topic....
as long as boeing operates their OHQ in KL... sorry.. i dont think its wise to buy from boeing...
you can call it paranoid... but i call it peace of mind... and a long term peace of mind too... considering that if we do operate F-15T... its gonna be at least 20 years of NO peace of mind.
afterall... boeing dont need the RSAF NGF contract as badly as DASSAULT... i think boeing is drooling about the " HUNDREDS and THOUDSANDS" of F-18E/F hornet that malaysia is gonna buy from them.... so they better keep their OHQ in KL... hahhahahahahahaa......
lastly... what the hell does you going to JB and owning properties in malaysia or on the moon got to do with singapore security?? many malaysian tycoons own plantation in indonesia... but that didnt stop the knock knock ship tournament over there in the east....
I don't wanna destroy my 2nd home -> condo , should any conventional pre-emptive invasion occur -
Wow you actually earn money?Wonderful..shall we throw a feast at Kukup for you?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:'
I don't wanna destroy my 2nd home -> condo , should any conventional pre-emptive invasion occur -
sure why not?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Wow you actually earn money?Wonderful..shall we throw a feast at Kukup for you? -
please lah..... you think singapore would go around wasting a bomb on your condo?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:'
I don't wanna destroy my 2nd home -> condo , should any conventional pre-emptive invasion occur
last i heard... SAF do not practice indiscriminate carpet bombing.... that's why you see we got lots of LGBs... rather then DUMB BOMBS....
even the dumb bombs are getting a GPS LONGSHOT....
and frankly... singapore aint interested in invading malaysia... too bloody, too costly, too troublesome.....
we got something far more powerful... SIN dollar.... didnt you see all the commercial on the TV WELCOMING singaporean to invade malaysia with our money?
-
anyone knows if the current F-15T bid by boeing is in charge by boeing OHQ in KL?
if so... i think we should really really dump the F-15T due to possible security breach. -
The reason an MNC has a OHQ is usually so that the OHQ can function for the company which is thousands of KM away..
so i think theres a valid point in all this....
i dun think Boeing will say things like, "u can order the spare parts for the engine here in KL, but sorry, for the radar/weapon system, pls order direct from the US"....thats not how business is done...
yes, certain things like the weapons system might need the aproval of COngress, the what have you laws....
but what i am trying to say is that
there just might be an avenue for leaks if we were to purchase the F-15s,
and the OHQ remains in KL...and i do doubt Boeing will change location...Msia looks like a stronge potential customer for them
and it leads to another point...our Apaches are also Boeing made....
i wonder whether our guys think about this point anot....
i think the change of the OHQ was made after we purchased our apaches....
again, just my views. -
the apaches are stationed in the US, so support wise... it would be silly to go through the boeing OHQ in KL when we can get direct support from boeing in US.
however, once we bring our apache back.. i would be worried as to how the RSAF would be ordering its weapons and spare parts, through boeing OHQ in KL? not a wise move i would say.
and i think Boeing is nuts to setup their OHQ in KL... since there is no way malaysia is a bigger market for boeing product compare to singapore... unless the malaysians suddenly decided to pawn their undies and buys the F-18E/F by the hundreds.
maybe, we might pull some apache back loaded with spares and tons of ammo and missiles.
and then leave a small detachment in US to continue apache training and obtain parts and weapons for apaches both in SIN and in US through direct access to boeing in the US, bypassing the Boeing OHQ in KL.
but seriously... i think we should drop the F-15 given that Boeing OHQ is in KL... there is really no need for us to take unneccessary risk.
even if Boeing OHQ in KL is not permitted to handle information about singapore F-15T and apache... we cannot deny the possibility that some key boeing staff in boeing OHQ in KL might be able to access such information and "accidentally" leave it on the table. -
the other thing i worried is that boeing, due to its insensitivties might simply "hand over" the support for RSAF to boeing OHQ in KL, even if we order our spares direct from boeing in USA.
the worst that can happen is when boeing decided to deliver our spares to their warehouse in KL prior to delivering to us.. that would leave our spares vulnerable to "tinkering", "bugging" or even "sabotaging".
even if my above concern may be absurb or even improbable... but who is gonna compensate singapore if such things really happend?
in the end... wont we look stupid and silly when after spending billions, our security was compromised because boeing wants a cheaper OHQ in SEA.
i still believe... we should dump F-15, we cannot buy a weapon whose support centre and OHQ is located in a potential hostile nation, just as it would be silly for SAF to adopt AUG rifle made in malaysia. -
There's something called QC in SAF lah.
if sabotage , do you know whats the political consequences?
Even Malaysians are smart okay??!!
MINDEF will know if they are contacting Boeing M'sia or whatever..
and will take necessary precautions.
Last thing , Stop trying to sow discord..
It's not as if the F-15T is made in m'sia or something.. -
if every nation on earth are truely worried about political or diplomatic consequences, spies would be out of jobs!Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:There's something called QC in SAF lah.
if sabotage , do you know whats the political consequences?
Even Malaysians are smart okay??!!
MINDEF will know if they are contacting Boeing M'sia or whatever..
and will take necessary precautions.
Last thing , Stop trying to sow discord..
It's not as if the F-15T is made in m'sia or something..
i have no doubt there are smart malaysians, i just dont know if you are.
afterall... so what if we caught them doing it? what are we gonna do? start a war? at best boeing would just leave malaysia... and malaysian economy wont even feel its absence!
yet the consequences for such a breach on our security would be critical. NOT to mention the billions of dollars that we would need to spend, to make their information redundent. you think SAF too much money no where to throw!?
worst!! if we fail to detect such a breach and happily continue to talk cock sing song in sgforum, while malaysian spies and defence expert seeks ways and means to crack our F-15T.
MINDEF's intel reach can only go so far, its unable to bug every malaysian and keep track of their daily activities...
and why would we wanna put ourselves in a compromise position in the first place if we knew in advance the potential problem!?
lastly, i am not sowing discord... but politics are an ugly affair... naviety is the first step towards national disaster.
i hope MINDEF would take the neccessary precaution.. but it aint the first time MINDEF mess up in its acquisition... but you wont hear it in public... only that some crabs would be going for early retirement.