Malaysia defeats Singapore
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Em... It is not that far...Originally posted by 38�Ž:Do u ever enter the military base around Mt Ophire?
Knows well does not mean u can control it with ur spiritual power, so still return to the topic, if as the thead suggested, how can S'pore count it.
Only way to my opinion , is the authority strike 1st if detect the war is inevitable.
1st, SEAD all frontline SAM, then the airforce could enter to clear MLRS likes.
But soon, the SAF will face Su30MKM/Mig29. still very tough leh.
SU-30? Hmm... In exchange with palm oil -
but we are talking about E2, if E2 can detect the rocket firing from MLRS, it's biggest joke of the day.Originally posted by tripwire:http://www.army-technology.com/projects/astros/specs.html
those astros are not small ok.... it measure from 3.9 meters long for the smallest SS40 up to 5.6meter in length for the SS-80.
an AMMRAAM measure 3.6meters only.
not to mention the fact that the diameter of the ASTRO rocket is way above that of the AMRAAM.
secondly... rockets dont fly low... that would be cruise missiles... not rockets..
and for your information i am one of your ANY SAF personnel... and i can tell you that SAF have ARTHUR long range radar and other arty round tracking radar in service.. an arty round is far far smaller.. then even an AMRAAM. -
dont laugh lah... people probably never serve in the military mah.... give him some face lah...Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha, yet another arm-chair strategist, this one can't even configure tri-service warfare!
Must be related to idwar, another no-brainer.
Now if you'll excuse me while I go laugh myself silly.
anyway... let me explain lah....
malaysia's SHORAD and VSHORAD are useless against RSAF F-16s even if you put those SAMs on those of the ASTRO launchers.
the reason is 2 fold.
1.. all SHORAD and VSHORAD have limited range and max altitude.. meaning
A> if RSAF vipers uses the MAVERICK AGM-65 (range 27+km), the vipers wont even need to enter the defence envelope of your SHORAD to kill your ASTROS.
B> if you depoly hundreds of your SHORAD dozens of miles around your ASTROS to take into account of the limited SHORAD and VSHORAD range... the RSAF vipers would simply fly higher then your SHORAD and VSHORAD max altitude and drop LGBs on your ASTROS.
2.. RSAF F-16Ds are SEADs... they eat enemy SAMs for breakfast.. and if need to they can do NOE at high speed that would "eat" drastically into your SAM's effective zone of coverage.
and comming up in the future... UAVs with loitering capability.... makes it even safer and cheaper against the ASTROS. -
if E-2 can detect aircraft at over 200km yet cannot detect a single or dozens of rocket at 90km range... that would be the biggest joke in town today.Originally posted by 38�Ž:but we are talking about E2, if E2 can detect the rocket firing from MLRS, it's biggest joke of the day. -
at any time during a tense situation, especially more so since singapore has pre-emptive strike malaysia... its inconcievable to have ZERO E2s up there in the sky 24/7.Originally posted by 38�Ž:Probably the airfield being destroyed during MLRS showering, so E2s already fly to heaven. sad iszit, but have to face the reality if the scenario comes ture
and those E-2s that is not in the sky arent park on the runway... this is singapore... all fighters not going up.. goes deep underground, well beyond the reach of all conventional bombs (expect maybe the bunker buster of USAF) those miserable Astros wont even be able to penetrate a HAS.. -
Dude, I readily give face to people who actually deserve it. If he never served in military, then talking this big is just asking to be shot. On the other hand, if he did serve b4. Then I guess there's juz no reason left to give face with all that crap.Originally posted by tripwire:dont laugh lah... people probably never serve in the military mah.... give him some face lah... -
Originally posted by Marco_Simone:
Err........you forgotten to mention that a few rounds of the MLRS hit and sink USS Nimitz which is anchoring in CNB. USA declared war with MAT and destroy MAT with a single nuke. MAT surrenders. SAF troops march into KL. And me - Manager433 goes around farking MAT chio bu that I can find.
[b]It's 4:41AM.
The Malaysian political and military leadership were paralysed in the first 41 minutes of the unexpected attack by Singapore. Their intelligence had failed them. They had earlier dismissed the silent mobilisation of Singapore Armed Forces as nothing more than the usual mobilisation practice culminating in a military exercise which the island regularly conducted and which been earlier announced in the Singapore press.
In the panic and ensuing confusion, the PM decided to invoke the Malaysian-Indonesian Alliance, where an attack on Malaysia would be deemed to be an attack on Indonesia. However, his Defence Chief, as cool, calm and collected as ever, assured him that it would not be necessary. He said that the MAF would respond with a vengeance - in spite of 90% of their Air Force having been destroyed - that would lead to the total and complete destruction of Singapore.
The MLRS missile batteries hidden in the hardened bunkers in the hills of Johore were activated. Within 15 minutes, 250 missiles were launched in the first wave of attack and were sent streaking into the air and across the Johore Straits. 152 missiles malfunctioned and exploded in mid-air. The MAF had a notorious record of maintaining their military hardware. However, 98 missiles found their targets.
The Ministry of Defence's nerve centre in Bukit Gombak partially collapsed with the onslaught of the first wave of a missile barrage, hindering the Singapore Armed Forces' command, control and communication structure. The military command centres in the airforce bases in Lim Chu Kang, Sembawang and Paya Lebar were hit. Runaways were destroyed. Roads serving as alternative runaways were destroyed. Missiles also rained on the civil-military supply bases. Changi airport was partially destroyed, trapping thousands of Singaporeans and foreigners who had gathered to try to flee the island state. 15 missiles struck the Central Business District, partially destroying buildings.
Twelve stray missiles struck the HDB towns of Woodlands, Yishun, Choa Chu Kang, Jurong West, Tampines, Pasir Ris and the middle class suburb of Bukit Timah. 6,819 Singaporeans were killed within the first 20 minutes of the missile strikes. 16,732 were injured. The Singapore hospitals could not cope with the continuing stream of ambulances and makeshift ambulances ferrying in the bloodied wounded. Dead bodies were left outside the hospitals' mortuaries when it became obvious that the mortuaries did not have the capacity to cope with the constant flow of vehicles streaming in to send yet another ghastly load of dead people, many of whom had heads and limbs torn off from their mangled and bloodied torsos.
Within 40 minutes of the missile barrage and before the Malaysians could launch a second missile wave, the Singapore Government - commanding the battle from the comfort and safety of a faraway land - acted upon the advice of their trembling, nervous defence chief, a sallowed skin, portly, bespectacled scholar who, at age 39, was the world's youngest Chief of Defence Force.
The Malaysian Defence Chief smiled. Singapore had unconditionally surrendered to the Malaysians. He called his Prime Minister and reminded him of what the Malaysian Defence Chiefs had been advising the political leadership many times in the past; that there was never a need to match Singapore with glamorous but expensive fighter jets and fanciful military hardware. All the MAF needed were to invest in multiple launched rocket missiles - obtained cheaply at a tiny fraction of the cost of Singapore's advanced fighter jets - to bring Singapore to its knees.
The Singaporeans earned a consolation price. They achieved a world's first and was recorded in the Guinness book of record for fighting the shortest war of aggression, all of 1 hour 49 minutes.
Three months later, history repeated itself. Singapore was reabsorbed into Malaysia as a Malaysian state.
What do you guys think of this scenario?[/b] -
is there anything else in that cranium of yours other then the chiobu??
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hiaz....brother! give the fellowa break la.... u dun have to serve in the milatary to know these stuff unless u're in arti or the RSAF or some other unit that need to know such info...Originally posted by tripwire:dont laugh lah... people probably never serve in the military mah.... give him some face lah...
anyway... let me explain lah....
malaysia's SHORAD and VSHORAD are useless against RSAF F-16s even if you put those SAMs on those of the ASTRO launchers.
the reason is 2 fold.
1.. all SHORAD and VSHORAD have limited range and max altitude.. meaning
A> if RSAF vipers uses the MAVERICK AGM-65 (range 27+km), the vipers wont even need to enter the defence envelope of your SHORAD to kill your ASTROS.
B> if you depoly hundreds of your SHORAD dozens of miles around your ASTROS to take into account of the limited SHORAD and VSHORAD range... the RSAF vipers would simply fly higher then your SHORAD and VSHORAD max altitude and drop LGBs on your ASTROS.
2.. RSAF F-16Ds are SEADs... they eat enemy SAMs for breakfast.. and if need to they can do NOE at high speed that would "eat" drastically into your SAM's effective zone of coverage.
and comming up in the future... UAVs with loitering capability.... makes it even safer and cheaper against the ASTROS.
i believe u also learn these stuff after your stint in the army one what rite?
haha.... have fun flaming then..... thikn this would go on until u guys start using vulgarities and then the moderators would step in.... i've notice a trend in these kind of flaming messages..
me going rest and relax the day away...hahah...last friday got off....monday also got off....Wahahahah!!!! super long weekend!!! -
FIrst of all, it's an inept, unrealistic and overly simplistic scenario.
It's like - RSAF attacks, MAF does nothing. MAF hits back with rockets, SAF does nothing.
It's like those HK kungfu films where even though 10 people are attacking Jackie Chan, they take turns one by one to strike at him instead of rushing him all at once from all direction and rendering his defensive kungfu useless.
First of all, MAF is not so dumb as to go to sleep when SG mobilises all its units. They are just not as laid back as you think.
If SG launches an attack at Malaysia, why would we just launch an air attack and then just sit back and wait for them to retaliate?
Why wouldn't our 300,000 troops and our 350 little AMX-13's not swarm across the causeway into Johore?
While it is true that the rockets are something to worry about, the civvi population is not gonnna sit around in their HDB flats watching tele with a war going on. If SG started the war - which is sily to begin with - it would have made preparations for its population to be moved into underground shelters and MRT stations in the event of reprisals. So your civvi casualty figures are way too high.
Why do you think all our new HDB flats have bomb shelters?
And since these rockets, being inherently inaccurate, cannot destroy our military infrastructure, we will be well into launching our next phase of the invasion - whatever in your scenario that should be.
But if SG ever invades Malaysia, we can never hope to win. We simply do not have enough men and equipment to invade and hold that country, it's just too big and there's too few of us.
It'll be like US invading Iraq: easy to get in, costly to hold and harder to get out. We can only achieve limited objectives and quickly pull out and negotiate for peace. If we stay in Johore too long we stand a good chance of being cut off and clobbered. Remember, no matter how many of their planes, tanks, etc we destroy, these attacks will not completely destroy their infantry. And in the end jungle fighting is an infantry war. And MAF infantry units are very good jungle fighters. -
Ladies and gentlemen,
Artillery is a very sensitive issue. I hope you guys remember that on a particular day in 1999, almost every single unit in SAF are mobilised because Malaysian artillery had moved close to Johor and no malaysian authority informed us that there will be an exercise.
It is totally out of a question that singapore will not take out the MRLS on our first strike.
My uncle was an F-16 strike pilot. That day he remembered the country almost went to war, as he sat in the briefing room waiting for orders to strike. He was already designated targets in Malaysia. He told me that some of his friends were given the task of destroying Malaysian artillery, but no MRLS were in service yet.
Malaysia dare not take the chance of installing artillery near Johor. They know the risk. Even their main Air force base is in Penang, butterworth. They themselves dare not take the risk and put their precious Migs and Hornets far away from us. -
But if SG ever invades Malaysia, we can never hope to win. We simply do not have enough men and equipment to invade and hold that country, it's just too big and there's too few of us.
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dont worry... after we won the war... we will employ you as our "re-education" minister.... you will impart your negative thoughts into their thought process..... using your messmerizing voice...
with your divine power, we will turn them into pessimist with daily loud hailer messages on top of minivans, playing over and over your statments something along the line below....
"malaysia can never hope to win, singapore is simply too strong.... "
"malaysia do not have even soldier and equipment to challenge singapore"
"its hopeless... resistance is futile... malaysians will be assimilated into singapore.... all malaysia land belong to singapore...."
play afew million time day and night 24/7, malaysian as well as the elephants in their jungle would be begging for mercy!! -
Originally posted by tripwire:
Tripwire, thanks for detailed reply, no bad feeling here...
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/astros/specs.html
those astros are not small ok.... it measure from 3.9 meters long for the smallest SS40 up to 5.6meter in length for the SS-80.
an AMMRAAM measure 3.6meters only.
not to mention the fact that the diameter of the ASTRO rocket is way above that of the AMRAAM.
secondly... rockets dont fly low... that would be cruise missiles... not rockets..
and for your information i am one of your ANY SAF personnel... and i can tell you that SAF have ARTHUR long range radar and other arty round tracking radar in service.. an arty round is far far smaller.. then even an AMRAAM.
Sorry for the topic, just want to hijack the thread a little bit more.. and have some more to discuss with u:
Regarding the E-2 can detect an aeroplane 200km away, doesnÂ’t mean it can subsequently detect the Astro rocket size target in 90km. The APS-145 detective range is only got sth to do with the RCS and the speed of the target. Just as u mentioned, the rocket actual size is comparable to that of MRAAM. A common MRAAM RCS is 0.1-0.2 m2, but a F15 size plane is 10-15m2. So the E2 can track the 10-15m2 RCS target in 200kms but much short for it to track sub-1m2 target. Considering the E-2 has to track so many targets in the sky and sea and land at same time, how it can realize in time, the rockets r not AAM towards itself or sth else? On the other hand, the rocket flies at such high speed, it takes only a few minutes to cover its 90km range. Do u think the E2 tracking practice is not a joke in reality?
When we watching Hollywood war movies like Topgun/ Behind the enemy line or so, usually, the fighter jet pilot realize the AAM only by their alarm, but not via their onboard radar. -
We dun want to be another JapanOriginally posted by Manager433:Err........you forgotten to mention that a few rounds of the MLRS hit and sink USS Nimitz which is anchoring in CNB. USA declared war with MAT and destroy MAT with a single nuke. MAT surrenders. SAF troops march into KL. And me - Manager433 goes around farking MAT chio bu that I can find. -
We dun need to hold ground for long & we dun need to occupy the entire MY.Originally posted by tvdog:But if SG ever invades Malaysia, we can never hope to win. We simply do not have enough men and equipment to invade and hold that country, it's just too big and there's too few of us.
It'll be like US invading Iraq: easy to get in, costly to hold and harder to get out. We can only achieve limited objectives and quickly pull out and negotiate for peace. If we stay in Johore too long we stand a good chance of being cut off and clobbered. Remember, no matter how many of their planes, tanks, etc we destroy, these attacks will not completely destroy their infantry. And in the end jungle fighting is an infantry war. And MAF infantry units are very good jungle fighters.
Reasons are eventually UN will step in , thus it will not be in our interest to occupy MY indefinitely, the second as you mentioned , we maybe forced to fight an unconventional war. Thirdly, our economy will be stagnant becos all our abled men are fighting .
So how should we end it?
The first thing we must achieved in such senario is to achieve air superirioty by destroying MY's SAM protection( not anything significant becos they dun have any medium to long range SAM), airfields, radars etc and land buffer to SG by invading Johore.
Next will be the total destruction of command structure, power stations & communication.
Lastly will be asset hunting, ie. all naval vessal, a/c , arty and AFVs etc
If we achieve that , it will eliminate the threat to SG for decades.
By this time MY will be totally defenceless, with our constant airstrike, either MY will surrender or UN will step in, so MY will sign a peace treaty with us which we will impose many restriction against them. -
Indonesia will seized the opportunity to take over Sabah and Sarawak as wellOriginally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:First up, what makes you think Indon will even be remotely interested in helping an antagoniser such as Malaysia? As if they will ever forget the slap on their faces in the rows over some disputed islands.
Secondly, what makes you think the MLRS missles are capable of even hitting, let alone penetrate, the "nerve centres"? And what makes you think the "nerve centres" are even there?
Next up, a few runways to get rid of the RSAF? Ability to win conventional war without a credible air support?
I think I'll have a sore stomach tomorrow, from all that laughter. 
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If we occupy Malaysia, we'll have access to their oil palm plantations. If these resources become ours, we'll be RICH! These are a more stable source of income than the casino, as palm oil is in perennial demand.
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Keep on dreamingOriginally posted by SBS9611D:If we occupy Malaysia, we'll have access to their oil palm plantations. If these resources become ours, we'll be RICH! These are a more stable source of income than the casino, as palm oil is in perennial demand.
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Well... It has been said in a book that invading will not be so big area... You know what's the book I am talking abt
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Yeah I am sure we won't be seen by the world as initial aggressors and the UN will definitely not punish usOriginally posted by SBS9611D:If we occupy Malaysia, we'll have access to their oil palm plantations. If these resources become ours, we'll be RICH! These are a more stable source of income than the casino, as palm oil is in perennial demand. -
That's why we would not make the 1st moveOriginally posted by DriftingGuy:Yeah I am sure we won't be seen by the world as initial aggressors and the UN will definitely not punish us -
Sorry to disappoint you. When there is a real war, I will be the first to board the plane bound for New York.Originally posted by Weirdo80:In all fairness, I think the scenario is quite exciting, albeit simplistic. In a pre-emptive attack by Singapore, KL, PJ, SS2, Puchong, Shah Alam and Subang would have been obliterated, killing far more than the Singaporean count in the scenario. The Malaysian leaders would definetely think twice before trying to fire their rockets less they lose another major population centre.
And I think Singapore is too proud to surrender so fast - not to Malaysia anyway. If all of Singapore's reserve escape into hiding in Malaysia's jungles, Malaysia will have a serious problem on its hands. At least 300,000 very angry soldiers and ex-soldiers hiding in the midst of their botanical labyrinths. Most of them not caring if they live or die, they have lost their tiny utopian state and families, and they want a blood vengeance. Most of these are highly-educated, thinking and strategizing soldiers equipped with scoped rifles, NVGs, anti-tank weapons, grenade launchers, machine guns, claymore mines and mortars. Good luck to the MAF in weeding them out. And I haven't even started talking about SAF's armour and artillery (which from what I know, can hit KL from Singapore).
In the first place, you two countries should never ever fight. Too much to lose from each other. Billateral trade between Singapore and Malaysia amounted to SG$77.2 billion in 2003, probably even higher now. Why risk losing such a pot of gold over petty arguments? Due to the geographical proximity, the two neighbours will be devastated by war - physically, psychologically and economically. Millions will die. -
this still means that you still have to work !!!!! PAP ola!Originally posted by SBS9611D:If we occupy Malaysia, we'll have access to their oil palm plantations. If these resources become ours, we'll be RICH! These are a more stable source of income than the casino, as palm oil is in perennial demand.
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End of the day... No war should erupt...
You see JB now, badly hit aft reports of crimes there scaring Singaporeans there -
If we don't make the first move, you think our tiny island can survive the first wave?Originally posted by sbst275:That's why we would not make the 1st move
Anyway SAF doctrine dictates that in an event of a war, defensive invasion will be done... not inclusive of holding onto the oil palms