Indonesia turning to China for help due to US arms embargo?
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From Straits Times
China, Indonesia forging a strategic partnership
JAKARTA - CHINA and Indonesia yesterday signed agreements to establish a 'strategic partnership' that represents an extension of Beijing's influence in the region.
Under the cooperation deal, Chinese President Hu Jintao promised billions of dollars in aid, loans and private investment. Jakarta was also hoping that it would lead to the supply of military equipment from China, after being subject to a US arms embargo for more than a decade.
The far-reaching 'strategic alliance declaration' focuses on cooperation in areas such as trade, defence and technology.
Mr Hu signed the deal with President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono one day after attending the Asia-Africa summit in Indonesia over the weekend.
At a joint press briefing after the signing ceremony, Mr Hu said: 'This demonstrates not only that Sino-Indonesian relations have entered a new development stage but will also promote the development of Sino-Asean relations.
'We want stronger ties with Indonesia - and to make serious efforts to create a new international order in politics and economy that is just and rational, and to safeguard peace and world progress.'
Calling the agreement 'a new historic milestone', Dr Yudhoyono said: 'Today, the People's Republic of China and Indonesia have moved forward.'
Dr Yudhoyono said the two countries had agreed to step up bilateral trade from the current US$14 billion (S$23 billion) to US$20 billion.
Officials said last week that China would also provide more than US$10 billion in private-sector investment to help revive Indonesia's economy.
Apart from trade and investment, Defence Minister Juwono Sudarsono said Jakarta was seeking possible cooperation in arms and military supplies.
'The Ministry of Industry and the Ministry of Science and Technology will work with me to decide on strategic industries in China, incorporating the army, navy and air force, specifically in light arms,' he told The Straits Times.
'We think that conventional weapons cooperation is best established through countries like China because they have the capability, technology, and the specification that we need - but most of all the pricing should be right,' he said.
The two countries would work out the arrangement over the next three months, he added.
International relations analyst Bantarto Bandoro saw Beijing's pledges of aid and investment as part of a drive to usurp Washington as the dominant political and economic force in South-east Asia.
'China wants to be a major political power in politics and economy, and Indonesia is seen as one of the key players in the region,' he said.
He believes that improved ties might not have been possible under previous Indonesian leaders.
'Mr Yudhoyono is a moderate leader who understands the opportunities for Indonesia in being cosier with China,' he said.
The two countries restored diplomatic relations only in 1990 after severing them in 1967 following an attempted coup by the Indonesian Communist Party.
Other components of yesterday's agreement are:
# A memorandum of understanding on infrastructure and natural resources;
# China's pledge of a further US$300 million worth of low-interest loans for infrastructure development and reconstruction efforts in Indonesia's disaster zones, on top of the US$400 million it already committed;
# China's pledge of 30 million yuan (S$6 million) in financial and technical assistance, and US$1.5 million in cash and US$500,000 in goods for earthquake-stricken Nias;
# A deal on technical cooperation between Indonesia's Meteorological and Geophysical Body and China's Earthquake Administration in the fields of earthquakes and tsunamis, and
# A maritime pact that includes joint efforts to combat smuggling and piracy, as well as arms supplies.
The strategic partnership with Indonesia follows China's move to resolve outstanding disputes with India last month.
Analysts have said Beijing is vying for a slice of US trade and influence in the Asia-Pacific region.
Paying attention to:
-"would lead to the supply of military equipment from China, after being subject to a US arms embargo for more than a decade".
-"focuses on cooperation in areas such as trade, defence and technology."
-"A maritime pact that includes joint efforts to combat smuggling and piracy,
as well as arms supplies."
Do you think it poses a threat to our security in Singapore and our relation with China since we're a stauch ally of U.S.? this would probably lead to an arms race in SE Asia. Given China's population (few times more than U.S.) and population of Indonesia(many times more than us) I think it is just a matter of time before China becomes a world power and a matter of time before Indonesia becomes a SE Asia Military power given the manpower and resources Indonesia has if China aid them.
What do you guys think? Do you think it's mainly due to the lack of support from US and US arms embargo that Indonesia is turning to China?
Seems to me like another cold war case where US vs Soviet to see who has more 'friends'
Please Post your comments. -
think it has more to do with profits. Indonesia needs investors, trade and weapons. China needs investors, trade, and someone to sell weapons to. So it is more of a win win situation to them.
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Indonesia hate the Americans more than the PRC!!! Turning to Chinese help will piss US more!
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Originally posted by ah_kwang:
Error !! ......i don't forsee indonesia becoming a military power...
From Straits Times
[b]
China, Indonesia forging a strategic partnership
Do you think it poses a threat to our security in Singapore and our relation with China since we're a stauch ally of U.S.? this would probably lead to an arms race in SE Asia. Given China's population (few times more than U.S.) and population of Indonesia(many times more than us) I think it is just a matter of time before China becomes a world power and a matter of time before Indonesia becomes a SE Asia Military power given the manpower and resources Indonesia has if China aid them.
What do you guys think? Do you think it's mainly due to the lack of support from US and US arms embargo that Indonesia is turning to China?
Seems to me like another cold war case where US vs Soviet to see who has more 'friends'
Please Post your comments. [/b]
in 50 years..though...
Indonesia's population is lower then united states , furthermore , investors confidence are very shaky when it comes to economy and earthquakes...
Even if there's a territorial dispute, i don't think even they themselves dare to collide their warships Side By Side with us...
Anyway , Those China man are smart , those light weapons bought by them will be used to kill their own fellow ethnic groups...
including the weapons used against their fellow ethnic chinese in indonesia..hahaha
Anyway, They can even threaten to point missiles and nukes at Taiwan for all i care...
lol.. -
What do u want to imply here, U mean Indonesian authority is against 1 of its ethnic group?! Yes , what happed in may 1998 is really a tragedy, however, with their a dime influence at that moment, what do u think the China government can do except empty "Fury" words. However, if China can succeed in supplying even light weapon to the Indonesian army, do u think the soldier will still proceed the crackdown on you mentioned ethnic group with that easy when the gun in their hand is made in China? OK, even the worst scenario did proceed as u wished, then, china still can play the card by cutting all supply of weapon related inventory as a more sound measurement in addition to the empty word protest as done last time in 1998. And if that happens, I don't think the US or other country will take the chance to resume arm supplyOriginally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Anyway , Those China man are smart , those light weapons bought by them will be used to kill their own fellow ethnic groups...
including the weapons used against their fellow ethnic chinese in indonesia..hahaha
Anyway, They can even threaten to point missiles and nukes at Taiwan for all i care...
lol..
BTW, if u say 1 authority wants to against 1 of its minority, it can do it even with its own sh*t, no need mention where their weapon comes from.
Secondly, it's the open secret that China' s Nuke mainly aimed at US, and none of them aim at Taiwan as u said. -
Military power as in not really compete against the world but within SE Asia, i.e. surpassing SAFOriginally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Error !! ......i don't forsee indonesia becoming a military power...
in 50 years..though...
Indonesia's population is lower then united states , furthermore , investors confidence are very shaky when it comes to economy and earthquakes...
Even if there's a territorial dispute, i don't think even they themselves dare to collide their warships Side By Side with us...
Anyway , Those China man are smart , those light weapons bought by them will be used to kill their own fellow ethnic groups...
including the weapons used against their fellow ethnic chinese in indonesia..hahaha
Anyway, They can even threaten to point missiles and nukes at Taiwan for all i care...
lol.. -
Yup, Indonesia's TNI has a history of "controlling" pro independent forces...Originally posted by 38�Ž:What do u want to imply here, U mean Indonesian authority is against 1 of its ethnic group?! Yes , what happed in may 1998 is really a tragedy, however, with their a dime influence at that moment, what do u think the China government can do except empty "Fury" words. However, if China can succeed in supplying even light weapon to the Indonesian army, do u think the soldier will still proceed the crackdown on you mentioned ethnic group with that easy when the gun in their hand is made in China? OK, even the worst scenario did proceed as u wished, then, china still can play the card by cutting all supply of weapon related inventory as a more sound measurement in addition to the empty word protest as done last time in 1998. And if that happens, I don't think the US or other country will take the chance to resume arm supply
BTW, if u say 1 authority wants to against 1 of its minority, it can do it even with its own sh*t, no need mention where their weapon comes from.
Secondly, it's the open secret that China' s Nuke mainly aimed at US, and none of them aim at Taiwan as u said.
GAM.....or over in other parts of the country.....
Anyway, also quite well known for random killings of "rebels" they claim...
East timor,Aceh, Maluku ......blah blah blah
Hence, the US arms embargo , so this time i conclude ...
Most of the time, their made-in-china weapons would be used for counter insurgency, mostly against the many different ethnic groups..
I wonder how's the reliability of the guns though...
Hope it's good
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Anyway, the recent case of robber getting beaten up in JOHOR...
the robber's weapon was MADE-IN-CHINA.. (reported in news)
it jammed..and everyone beat him up to a pulp
wahahahahhaha so funny...
Moral of the story : Go figure out.. -
U really worry 2 much about TNI's weaponry quality, take it easy...Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Anyway, the recent case of robber getting beaten up in JOHOR...
the robber's weapon was MADE-IN-CHINA.. (reported in news)
it jammed..and everyone beat him up to a pulp
wahahahahhaha so funny...
Moral of the story : Go figure out..
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so you mean american weapons do not jam at all?