Should Airsoft be legalized in S'pore?
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Lead rounds are no-no as they can hurt. Rubber ones should be all right. But it is still better to use Airsoft products for military or police training, IMO. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it could be used during a live firing simulation exercise in camp.Originally posted by wonderamazement:then ban lead pellets then, make sure they're not suitable for use in airsoft models, and impose a fine or law that might be something like exposure of a replica model of guns and they can only be used in ranges lah, s'pore like not open minded leh... and of course, everything comes with a risk, it's only how you handle it... -
Of course with adequate protection lar,need i mention the obvious, even muscle ripped people would not have so much pain tolerance with projectiles flying at them.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:you seriously don't want to see a generation of one eyed jacks coming out right? anyway, if you want to play might as well try paint ball. At least it has adequate protection for your face. -
Please read my article for what you have said are covered insideOriginally posted by wd1:once airsoft is legal there will surely be jokers taking them on the streets and shooting ppl. with lead pellets there WILL be skin penetration. with chewing gun you are talking about stalled lifts and MRT. what more the potential for injury?
after all at the moment half the fun of owning an airsoft is the very possession of it, because well its illegal. i have played with the airsofts owned by friends (all in sg) and it was harmless fun we shot at birds and cats harassing his pets. we once formed a firing squad and shot at a watermelon in his living room, after i had been inspired by a pic of a real desert eagle disintegrating a watermelon. even at pointblank range the plastic pellets would not fully penetrate the watermelon skin. however i imagine lead pellets would be much more lethal
i used to be on the school air pistol team and once i sneaked an apple into the range and shot at it (this with a full-spec feinwerkbau competition air pistol with lead pellets) and the shot went clean through. like the one with potatoes i think it would have gone through many apples. such guns are truly dangerous weapons!
i'm for the status quo. -
i have seen morons in my void deck playing with airsoft guns illegal ones of course without any adequate protection. Just two days ago i heard that one of those morons kena shot in the eye. Remember, common sense ain't that common these days. If you want to legalise it, i rather that it is handled under a controlled enviroment. Similar to those commercial paint ball centres.Originally posted by chronicles:Of course with adequate protection lar,need i mention the obvious, even muscle ripped people would not have so much pain tolerance with projectiles flying at them. -
who knows where to buy airsoft? can message me the place?
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Yeah, like paintball centres...
But ever wonder why there are very few - if any - airsoft centres?
I don't know either but it must be because airsoft guns are so delicate and break down so easily. I think paintball guns are tougher.
Also, airsoft pellets are very bad for the environment. Areas in HK that are used for airsoft games are just completely covered with hundreds of thousands of plastic pellets. Besides the green issue there is also a real danger to people as it makes the gound very slippery.
No one sane plays with airsoft guns without using masks during these "wargames" as the chance of being shot at is there. But sometimes people are fooling around with these toys at home or something and they forget about the dangers of these toys. -
well told ya i have seen some idiots in my void deck playing those without any mask.Originally posted by tvdog:Yeah, like paintball centres...
But ever wonder why there are very few - if any - airsoft centres?
I don't know either but it must be because airsoft guns are so delicate and break down so easily. I think paintball guns are tougher.
Also, airsoft pellets are very bad for the environment. Areas in HK that are used for airsoft games are just completely covered with hundreds of thousands of plastic pellets. Besides the green issue there is also a real danger to people as it makes the gound very slippery.
No one sane plays with airsoft guns without using masks during these "wargames" as the chance of being shot at is there. But sometimes people are fooling around with these toys at home or something and they forget about the dangers of these toys. -
Does just a single situation means the answer?
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do you know that there are biodegradable pellets and these should be used in s'pore...Originally posted by tvdog:Yeah, like paintball centres...
Also, airsoft pellets are very bad for the environment. Areas in HK that are used for airsoft games are just completely covered with hundreds of thousands of plastic pellets. Besides the green issue there is also a real danger to people as it makes the gound very slippery.
No one sane plays with airsoft guns without using masks during these "wargames" as the chance of being shot at is there. But sometimes people are fooling around with these toys at home or something and they forget about the dangers of these toys. -
also there shoulde proper equipment needed for airsoft, although i'm a supporter for airsoft i do think that proper safety measures should be put in their rightful places...
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As the old saying goes, "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."Originally posted by wonderamazement:also there shoulde proper equipment needed for airsoft, although i'm a supporter for airsoft i do think that proper safety measures should be put in their rightful places...
You are correct in your assertion that proper safety measures should be employed when playing with Airsoft guns. However, short of treating Airsoft guns like real firearms (i.e., they must be stored in the armories of approved gun clubs, and can only be used in said clubs under strict supervision), how would you enforce the safety rules? In other words, even if the Singapore government legalized the private ownership of Airsoft guns and put in place harsh penalties for the misuse thereof, what is preventing Tan Ah Beng and his buddies from breaking out their Airsoft guns and staging an impromptu "firefight" in the privacy of his house, without the use of safety equipment?
The Singapore government could conceivably yield to pressure and legalize Airsoft ownership (and I am all for it), but they'll probably put in place so many conditions and restrictions as to make it realistically infeasible.
Just my $0.02.
MG -
What you can't seldom experience in the army you will with airsoft battles.
The lesson is that once the shooting starts it all goes chaotic. The thing that is most needed is your quick reaction. That's where our training comes in handy. You begin to take all your training seriously.
Most important lesson is take cover. You would really understand what is true cover and what isn't.
Once we were playing this game called "sniper". There's only ten of us, 2 SAF-trained Singaporeans including myself and 8 HK seasoned wargamers. We took turns to be the pair of "snipers" while the other 8 hunt the snipers.
This particular instance, the other SAF guy and a HKer were snipers and they managed to kill off the other 7 men in my team. They didn't listen to my advice and didn't do fire movement, preferring to creep around the bushes. They got picked off one by one.
Instead of hunting, I became hunted as the odds now not in my favour with me against 2 of them.
I took cover behind a bush and this HK guy kept shredding the branches above my head with pellets from my left. I had to keep my head down. I was flat on the ground on returning fire every now and then.
Suddenly the other SAF guy appeared and rushed me from the right and I saw him just in time. Because I was using a short MP5, I just pointed my weapon with one hand at him and fired. He took a full burst of pellets.
Very heart thumping action. -
ok i too feel that airsoft should be stored in "armouries" in centres with yr own private lockersOriginally posted by Meia Gisborn:As the old saying goes, "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye."
You are correct in your assertion that proper safety measures should be employed when playing with Airsoft guns. However, short of treating Airsoft guns like real firearms (i.e., they must be stored in the armories of approved gun clubs, and can only be used in said clubs under strict supervision), how would you enforce the safety rules? In other words, even if the Singapore government legalized the private ownership of Airsoft guns and put in place harsh penalties for the misuse thereof, what is preventing Tan Ah Beng and his buddies from breaking out their Airsoft guns and staging an impromptu "firefight" in the privacy of his house, without the use of safety equipment?
The Singapore government could conceivably yield to pressure and legalize Airsoft ownership (and I am all for it), but they'll probably put in place so many conditions and restrictions as to make it realistically infeasible.
Just my $0.02.
MG -
Hey, Is Airsoft illegal in the first place? They probably did not have airsoft weapons at the time the firearms legislation was enacted so maybe Airsoft is not infact illegal?
What's the relevent legislation btw? -
this should answer yr question..http://www.spf.gov.sg/licence/PE/Conditions/Airsoft_Gun_Centre.html
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a single situation could just be a tip of an iceberg.Originally posted by chronicles:Does just a single situation means the answer? -
Yeah, airsoft should be made legal in sg.....its good if the govt can support s'poreans in a hobby that we can simply enjoy in our own country rather than having to travel to hk or somewhere else in order to have fun...
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Ok - Thanks for the link, but i'm still not convinced. THat appears to be some badly drafted delegated legislation that somewhat implies that Airsoft guns are illegal, but imo, the legailty of owning airsoft guns is still in question.Originally posted by wonderamazement:this should answer yr question..http://www.spf.gov.sg/licence/PE/Conditions/Airsoft_Gun_Centre.html
Hmm food for though. -
i still think that airsoft should be legalised and inject the term fun into "dullsville"s'pore
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Knowing the Singapore police, they will always say no before they say yes.
They are the biggest bunch of control freaks in a country full of control freaks.
Customs found a khukri in my luggage upon my return from Nepal. They confiscated the knife - despite the fact that it is a decorative khukri not a serious chopper.
They sent it to the police who declared it a illegal weapon on the grounds that it is part of the gurkha uniform. Have you heard a more weak excuse?
Anyway, despite my pleas, they only gave it back to me with the blade completely cut-off. -
poor you, since the blade is already cut off, what's the point in getting back the handle only?Originally posted by tvdog:Knowing the Singapore police, they will always say no before they say yes.
They are the biggest bunch of control freaks in a country full of control freaks.
Customs found a khukri in my luggage upon my return from Nepal. They confiscated the knife - despite the fact that it is a decorative khukri not a serious chopper.
They sent it to the police who declared it a illegal weapon on the grounds that it is part of the gurkha uniform. Have you heard a more weak excuse?
Anyway, despite my pleas, they only gave it back to me with the blade completely cut-off. -
Was it a real khukri or a replica? Anyway, did you put it inside your hand luggage? Sharp items should be checked in.Originally posted by tvdog:Knowing the Singapore police, they will always say no before they say yes.
They are the biggest bunch of control freaks in a country full of control freaks.
Customs found a khukri in my luggage upon my return from Nepal. They confiscated the knife - despite the fact that it is a decorative khukri not a serious chopper.
They sent it to the police who declared it a illegal weapon on the grounds that it is part of the gurkha uniform. Have you heard a more weak excuse?
Anyway, despite my pleas, they only gave it back to me with the blade completely cut-off. -
nay. a lot of negative events could happen with the introduction of such toys in singapore. but of course even casino get the go ahead with appropriate social safety net in place... why not? maybe we can tax airsoft ten time more heavily than liquor or a placement of a million dollar deposit.
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Originally posted by cairocks:Think it is rather dangerous. Played with one that uses compressed air while in Canada. Winter night at -20c outside, don't feel like going out, nothing to do, so took my friend's airsoft pistol to play. We lined up six potatos in a straight line and shoot thru them. the pallet penetrated all six potatos and was stuck in the wooden wall. Had also killed a rat using it. The pallet penetrated the head.
Think it is too dangerous esp if kids dunno the danger of it and anyhow shoot.
well duh...Originally posted by cairocks:Oh, btw his pistol is one of the more fierce one. uses compress air canister and lead pallets. Air pump ones and plastic pallets may not have such penetrating power.
thats not bloody airsoft then is it?
its an air pistol - totally different regulation requirements.
different genre altogether and does not come under the title of 'airsoft'.
i wish people would get these things right.
as for airsoft used in training - yes it is, but alot of military/law enforcement like to use simmunitions or laser [miles] systems as these gets everyone used to the noise as well the higher penetration power of simmunition rounds.
airsoft itself, under stock powers, cannot even get you to bleed.
i know, i've spoken to gov. scientific lab people who tested airsoft for 'lethality' rating requirements. and they werent lethal.
control airsoft and you will not get these stupid stories of 'he made him bleed' 'bleeding wounds' etc [like in other countries, - japan for example has a 1j rating limit on fields - ie. you cannot play with an airsoft gun that is over that rating, same ratings in the uk and in other countries]
airsoft was not invented to hurt anyone, in fact its purely for 'sport', and anyone who's in it for the 'hurting' of people is better off in a country that has airsoft banned..
oh..
and yes you do need a licence in singapore, and they must be kept at a gun club. very few are granted such a licence.
speak to those at 'airsoft asia' (Sembawang Shooting Club) for more info.
as for taiwanese of japanese - japanese is reliable, but taiwanese can withstand far greater pressures than japanese models are rated for.
also, japanese models are banned from being 'full metal' [which is why so many are plastic], so if youre looking for 'full metal' models, look towards taiwan and hong kong especially.
as for safety, we also use paintball masks.
but it always causes problems in aiming [not a major issue in paintball since you 'walk your target'] so you often see people with ballistically rated goggles [bolle ballistic-rated polycarbonates] and shooting glasses [again, poly carbonate ballistic rated lenses], etc.
paintball in singapore seems to be speedball only, which teaches you nothing [may as well stick to CS..] and is pretty rubbish and inflexible imo.
fine for the tourney types but not everyone wants to do that, and airsoft wasnt invented for that.
as for airsoft games/events:
i spoke to some guys back at the old airsoft range at marina square and they said that the idea had been rejected on grounds that 'singaporeans have all the training and gun experience in NS and often have no wish to repeat it', and 'it is seen as very bad to promote militia tendancies in the public', and 'its just not politically correct to be seen in military camo'. etc etc ad nauseam.
airsoft asia had again tried the idea not long ago and it was rejected.
and remember AIRSOFT uses plastic 6mm or 8mm balls - called ball bullets in japan [and not ball bearings as the term means the lead pellets used in the west].
LEAD pellets are NOT used in AIRSOFT.
currently, the only 'real' biodegradable bb's are thos emade by bioval.
the Excel ones are not 'necessarily' biodegradable in the 'traditional' sense.
singapore banned airsoft on grounds of issues such as:
1. someone can use an airsoft gun to perform a robbery or to bring fear to someone or people.
2. someone spotted with an airsoft gun in public can be accidently confused for a real gun and the bearer could be shot.
i've played airsoft for many years, had training with both special forces and law enforcement while using airsoft guns, and have performed the following: helo assaults, mechanised assaults, hostage rescue, tubular assault, vip protection training, fibua, cqb, etc etc.
while not completely realistic [not loud enough, little or no recoil, range, weight, etc] airsoft does have its uses as a training and a recreational tool.
you guys should look at other countries to see who they do it.
theres an international airsoft magazine coming out soon, which you may be able to pick up [kinokuniya? - thats where i usually pick up my japanese airsoft mags] and see how the rest of the world does it..
ask me if you need to know more about airsoft in general..
and no, i'm not selling anything. -
It was a real khukri, but it wasn't a high grade one like those the ghurka contingent use. The blade wasn't stainless steel and instead was some soft metal.
Anyway, back to airsoft.
I know a few friends whom have managed somehow to smuggle these toys back to SG. One has a battery-operated MP-5 with retracting stock, a few had CO2 pistols, and one brought back a CO2 MAC-10 - very rare. I won't telll you how they did it so you'd have to use your imagination.
In HK, you can still buy these items. I saw a M-60 GPMG even! Also M-79 grenade launchers and M-203. How these work I don't know.
Shotguns and revolvers are especially problematic. The shots are very weak as too much gas escapes. And the revolving mechanism of the revolvers break down very quickly.
You can stop dreaming about them becoming legal in Singapore as they look too realistic. If you are seen with one you can expect to get shot by the police.
And they can very very dangerous espcially after modifications. I had a CO2 92F pistol that could shatter a glass jar from a distance of 10m. All metal construction, heavy as hell, and Zoik - it was Japanese - albeit a very old model I bought second-hand from a friend. It was one of those whose slide action doesn't move when you fire. Less realistic but all the power is directed to propelling the pellet instead of moving the slide.
HK is a funny place. The laws concerning airsoft aren't very rigid or clear. But HK is a place of "unwritten" laws - grey areas. You can buy them, shops can sell them, and there are certain "designated" places where you can play with them where the police wouldn't freak out. But generally, you are supposed to keep them covered in public.