Wondering if u noticed...
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Hi guys,
as we all know,German Heckler & Koch makes one of the best weapons in the world,like the reowned MP5 series,G3 and G36 series of small arms.But if you were to visit the Israeli Military website,even the Special Forces do not use any weapons manufactured by H&K.
Has it got anything to do with what happened in WW2 when the Nazis were killing Jews or has it got to do with the fact that the Israelis produced better weapons.To be frank, I feel that H&K is one of the best manufacturers of small arms in the world and that no military should not be using them.They are a fine weapon manufacturer which is able to incorporate new technology in terms of materials etc.into old design of weapon.
Feel free to comment bros!!! -
Maybe the just use their own products and support their local industry as much as possible.
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how you know its good ? you use before ?
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Ithink its quite apparent given that almost every book praises the weapons produced by H&K.
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issit ? want to give example ?
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Jane's gun recognition guides
America's Special Forces
DELTA
Armed forces of the world
Soldier of fortune magazines
Counter-terrorist forces
Enough for you? -
HK may be one of the best small arm manufacturers, that doesn't mean that they are the only ones manufacturing small arms.
The Israelis are well known for their defense products which does include small arms. IMI is a reputable manufacturer when it comes to small arms.
So why buy a foreign company's product when your own domestic product performs just as well, if not better.
The UZI, a Made in Israel SMG, very popular, its design has been copied and used by many countries, its a 9mm Sub-Gun. Since Israel has their own 9mm sub-gun why buy the MP5 from Germany.
Not to forget Israeli weapons are all combat proven. I'm not saying German weapons are not.
Since they have their own domestic products which have been proven time and again to be good at what they do, why bother buying a foreign product. -
Israelis not feel particularly with Germen, Germen helped they build Dolphin class submarines
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pai kia nothing to say liao?Originally posted by crazy monkey:issit ? want to give example ?
no wonder monkey brains are often cooked for soup because most often they are useless.. -
shut up sbsk read Jane mag also no use go serve your NS firstOriginally posted by SMAPLionHeart:pai kia nothing to say liao?
no wonder monkey brains are often cooked for soup because most often they are useless..
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Yes..but beware the dark side..calm your thoughts.Originally posted by crazy monkey:shut up sbsk read Jane mag also no use go serve your NS first
SBSK he is, but Force hunt him down it will..
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no pioneer mag ?Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Jane's gun recognition guides
America's Special Forces
DELTA
Armed forces of the world
Soldier of fortune magazines
Counter-terrorist forces
Enough for you? -
That's an interesting observation.
Maybe the Nazi holocaust did stop them from wholesale use of German weapons. German technology transfer is a different thing as at the end of the day they can still boast that they are not using any german weapons.
Actually, most IMI-made small-arms are proven to be quite unpopular with Isralei troops. The Uzi SMG being the only exception. But this weapon is now mostly retired from front-line service. The other success is the Negev.
The Galil and the Tavor both didn't find favour that's why the M-16/M-4 is still in widespread use.
I now live in China where there is a comparable situation with relations between the Chinese and japs.
Sure they buy jap products, culture etc. But there is still strong resentment for WW2 atrocities by japs. They would never consider using jap-made equipment for army. So far, the only thing they use is relatively small number of Toyota Landcruisers for top brass. I think these are made-in-china Toyota and probably donated to foster good relationship between Toyota China and govt.
Just an observation, don't get too worked up even if you don't agree. -
I believe that the reason the Galil wasn't fully adopted was because the Americans were offering the Israelis the M16/M4 wholesale at very low prices. So it was more of an economic decision than a performance one.Originally posted by tvdog:The Galil and the Tavor both didn't find favour that's why the M-16/M-4 is still in widespread use.
But I could be wrong. -
Even a little savings of $50 per rifle...could mean alot for an army..Originally posted by Raptor937:I believe that the reason the Galil wasn't fully adopted was because the Americans were offering the Israelis the M16/M4 wholesale at very low prices. So it was more of an economic decision than a performance one.
But I could be wrong.
of over hundreds of thousands of troops.. -
Not that I remember. I'm also not in a position to read the publications for a while. Overseas you see.Originally posted by crazy monkey:no pioneer mag ? -
maybe the Isreal armed forces does use weapons from HK, just that they didn't publicly annouce or no one just happened to capture on photos. it doesn't mean that what appears in magazines, website, publications means that the Isreal Armed forces doesn't use weapons from HK.
Maybe they used it less often as the prices of HK weapons aint cheap right ? I recalled reading in some publications back in 2002 while in SAFTI MI, explaining the situation of Isreal and their lack of funds, urgency to procure arms that led them to purchasing lots of arms from the United States. i think US did set up a Bill and loan quite a sum of money to Isreal to allow them to procure arms (corect me if i am wrong here) thats why if quanity was plentiful and cheap. Well reasons based on praticality and cost of ecnomony swayed Isreal's decision in their arms purchases.
I do admit HK arms are well build and robust.Special Forces and Law enforcment agencies usage of their products are endorsement of the fine quality and build that HK weapons are renowned for. -
ermm how u know he is SBSK ???Originally posted by crazy monkey:shut up sbsk read Jane mag also no use go serve your NS first -
see the kind of postings he post you will knowOriginally posted by one-niner:ermm how u know he is SBSK ??? -
Galil was used in 60's and 70's,got assault and carbine versions. it is actually a rip-off from Ak-47 design basically.Even their navy special forces uses AK-47s.Originally posted by Raptor937:I believe that the reason the Galil wasn't fully adopted was because the Americans were offering the Israelis the M16/M4 wholesale at very low prices. So it was more of an economic decision than a performance one.
But I could be wrong. -
The fact that the Israeli Armed Forces acquires large number of US made small arms is that,the US Government provides them Military Aid which can be spent only on small arms or weapon systems manufactured by American arms manufacturing companies.This is to create a market for their own arms,and to help boost their sales.
And to consider this,hardly any military in the world does not use H&K.Even 3rd World country Militia use the G3 Assault Rifle.And if you were to say that the Israelis manufacture fine weapons(I do not contest this fact),and there is no need for them to procure arms from foreign companies,then why do they use Glocks(Austrian-Made),Sig Sauer(Swiss-Made) etc.But not H&K.Seriously,no where in their SF website did I see them mention H&K nor do i see them in their regualr forces webby.So is there a possible link with what happened? -
The Galil is too heavy even for Israeli soldiers. It is not just because they have a lot fo M16 or M4 for very cheap price, Israeli infantry soldiers actually prefer M16 and M4. All the Galil are for reserves. The Galil AR weigh 3.95kg. The M16 weigh 2.89kg. That's a good 1kg difference. But because of this weight, the Galil is supposed to be very stable when firing full-auto.
Along with the Galil, the brand new Tavor is also normally issued to non-infantry troops. The Tavor is not favoured for other reasons, not weight.
Frontline Israeli combat troops still prefer the M16 & M4. Wonder why... -
Today's ST reported that till today in Israel, the German national anthem is not played during official German visits due to the fact that the tune was the same when Hitler was in power. Maybe same reason why Israeli Armed Forces don't use H&K.
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To put a different perspective on this topic, the Israelis have placed a very high priority on self-sufficiency since the French pulled the rug out under them in the 60's. Mirage fighters that the Israelis ordered went to their enemies instead, and the Israelis had to take older Mirages and jam American J79 engines into them to make the Kfir.
Since then, wherever possible, the Israelis have made sure that they're never found in that position again. If they have to buy leading-edge technology that they can't develop for themselves in a timely manner, they will, but as soon as they can do it themselves, they'll make sure that they don't have to depend on anybody else. -
we had similar situation before SAR 21 introduced, the M-16 and the CIS SAR 80. SAR 80 was homgrown version which was too heavy, ugly and used only by second line troops like medical troops etc.Originally posted by tvdog:The Galil is too heavy even for Israeli soldiers. It is not just because they have a lot fo M16 or M4 for very cheap price, Israeli infantry soldiers actually prefer M16 and M4. All the Galil are for reserves. The Galil AR weigh 3.95kg. The M16 weigh 2.89kg. That's a good 1kg difference. But because of this weight, the Galil is supposed to be very stable when firing full-auto.
Along with the Galil, the brand new Tavor is also normally issued to non-infantry troops. The Tavor is not favoured for other reasons, not weight.
Frontline Israeli combat troops still prefer the M16 & M4. Wonder why...