Will Malaysia buy the fighter offed by Pakistan?
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the visiting Pakistani PM Shaukat Aziz has asked Malaysia to import the JF-Thunder aircraft. “Pakistan is making the aircraft with China’s cooperation,” the prime minister told a gathering of overseas Pakistanis on Friday.
(Full report: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_7-5-2005_pg1_1 )
Consider Malaysia seems already a happy buyer of certain Pakistani weapon like anti-tank missile and expressed interest to acquire more arms from Pakistan. It's make sense for the Pakistani to present more of their products to earn back hard cash.
It also may make sense for Malaysia to import some "Volume" products to accomplish their higher end Su30MKM/F18/Mig29 fleet in future. I got the information of the JF17 manufactured in Pakistan is ONLY priced at most 15 million USD while the F15K sold to Korea is 80 Million USD. The F15T would be more expensive than the Korean 1.
Though it's cheap in price, however, based on many sources, the JF17 does get many goodies:
1). It's engine is RD93- an upgraded Turbofan of RD33 currently powered Malaysia's Mig29.
2). It can carry 2 BVR AAM like active radar guided SD10 provided by China and said the performance is better than the early version of Russian's R77 which is also being aquired by Malaysia.
3), The Pakistani Version of JF17 may most possibly equipped the Italian Grifo7
which is the upgraded version of the radar installed in Italian F16MLU fighter.
here is the JF17 introduction:
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fc1.asp
The JF17 is going to enter Pakistani AF in 2006, and the factory is formally openned in Pakistan this year. SO the deal is still at very early stage and no matter how, the Malaysia still don't have the AWACS to control all its air jets in Sky.
How will be the next step? Let's have a close look in its development -
seems like nobody cares what malaysia want to buy.
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Well , if they are smart, they can do mass and bulk purchases like what we did for A-4 Skyhawks..
and upgrade them all..Problem is..they can or not? -
Hmmm, our neighbor still no response to their Pakistani BroÂ’s offer that keep our curiosity low
The JF17 wonÂ’t enter PAF service until 06, and even Malaysia interested to buy, that wonÂ’t happen before 07/08
Long way to go lahÂ…
15 million bucks per piece, thatÂ’s dumping price, If SAF set aside 1 billion USD to get 1 dozen F15T and they
spend the same amount to buy “Bulk”, negotiate a “ Whole sale” price to obtain near 100 this JF17, that’s would
be a grave concern.
DonÂ’t forget JF17 can carry 2 BVR AAM with 70km effective range and active guided homing and 2 SRAAM, the early F16A/B even canÂ’t fire AIM-120 .
So the price will be only 1 consideration for politicians, there r other factors for the KL to think abt, say the feeling of SÂ’pore?
And time will tellÂ….
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How many types of aircraft does the Malaysian Air Force have?
They have the Su-30MKM, F/A-18, Mig-29... Adding Pakistani aircraft to their inventory is really gonna create logistical nightmares. Unless if they somehow reconfigure all these aircraft to make the weapons loads compatible with each other.
In fact they've already got a host of other aircraft....Northrop RF5E Tigereye, AerMacchi M.B. 339A, Hawk 208 (I didn't make this up.... I got this from the RMAF homepage) .... Nothing wrong with having a large fleet of aircraft, but it'll be logistical hell.
Sources: RMAF website
http://maf.mod.gov.my/homepage/tudm/FighterBaru.htm -
Don't foget the Mig29 designer is also a partener in the JF17 project, provided the RD93 turbofan and some design work,therefore, even Malaysia decides to go for this JF17, many subsystems actually is compatible to each other in RMAF's inventory.
And also don't forget China also operates the biggest Su27/30 fleet in the world, their
AVIONICS developt by Chinese is compatible to the Russian system as well. If not, they couldn't develop a decent C4IR system, which means suicide in front of US force deployed in pacific.
Today's RMAF is a mini PLAAF, operates Su30/Mig29 as their backbone high-tier fleet, It's
a must for them to select 2nd line backup fihgter that is compatible to their Su30/mig29 fleet.
say with intergrated datalink etc, it's essential for the future 3D warefare.
JF17 is such a choice, cheap, BVR capable, and can be intergrated into their main fleet.
Judge from here, I could possible round out any western system, because it's impossible for
such system to intergrate with RMAF Su/MIG fleet. -
Same thing like getting 100 spitfires to fight against 1 F-22...
using an analogy.. -
Not F22 but JSF lah, however, S'pore won't get it before 2020?
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10 Mig-21 vs 1 F-22/A is enough.BTW,F-22/A can only carry 8 missiles!Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Same thing like getting 100 spitfires to fight against 1 F-22...
using an analogy..
How it is going to shoot down the remaining 2? -
using it's 1000 bullets?Originally posted by zenden9:10 Mig-21 vs 1 F-22/A is enough.BTW,F-22/A can only carry 8 missiles!
How it is going to shoot down the remaining 2? -
More precisely, it will only shoot down 2 Mig21.Originally posted by zenden9:10 Mig-21 vs 1 F-22/A is enough.BTW,F-22/A can only carry 8 missiles!
How it is going to shoot down the remaining 2?
The F22 tactic is shoot rival fighter in a far distance using its BVR AAM like a sniper. At the moment it fires, the F22 will expose itself and NO LONGER stealth. so what it going to nxt is turn around, speed up, using its supersonic cruise speed leave the scene. It will never afford to do any dodging fighting. Remeber, it worthes 300 Million USD per unit
so if 10 Mig21 face 1 F22, it will runaway after shoots down 2. The pilot's handbook will never allow he to rush to the cloud of Migs like "brave heart"
So, F22 is most likely to engage only high valued targets.
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LOL!!!!!Originally posted by |-|05|:using it's 1000 bullets?
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well the f22 did managed to shoot down 5 f15s in an exercise . . . .
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Originally posted by 38�Ž:
How I miss the good ole gun-fighting F-8 Crusader days.
More precisely, it will only shoot down 2 Mig21.
The F22 tactic is shoot rival fighter in a far distance using its BVR AAM like a sniper. At the moment it fires, the F22 will expose itself and NO LONGER stealth. so what it going to nxt is turn around, speed up, using its supersonic cruise speed leave the scene. It will never afford to do any dodging fighting. Remeber, it worthes [b]300 Million USD per unit
so if 10 Mig21 face 1 F22, it will runaway after shoots down 2. The pilot's handbook will never allow he to rush to the cloud of Migs like "brave heart"
So, F22 is most likely to engage only high valued targets. [/b]
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does US sell its raptors outside to other countries?Originally posted by CenturionMBT:well the f22 did managed to shoot down 5 f15s in an exercise . . . . -
And also a single twin seated EF2000 defeated 3 RSAF F16s in a demo...Originally posted by CenturionMBT:well the f22 did managed to shoot down 5 f15s in an exercise . . . .
Then what happened to EF2000? -
Whatever fighter jet it is...be glad we are away from the days of WWII whereby each and every plane are more or less the same..with not much significant advantage against each other..
Pilots of those days took off from their airfields..never to return again..
Kudos to those people who manufacture advanced planes so that pilots can return home safely...after defending their countries -
I read about that report too in some aviation mag. Apparently, it stated that the Eagle pilots didn't know the Raptor was there (in its vicinity or at it's six) until it was over.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:well the f22 did managed to shoot down 5 f15s in an exercise . . . .
But there was another twist to the story, I also read in the internet that the 'results' of the swift Eagle defeat was orchestrated (with the Raptors superior capbilities) by the USAF to 'persuade' (Convince?) Congress that the Eagle's days as an Air Superioty Fighter is over. Therefore, more funds need to be released to the Raptor programme.
Nevertheless of the outcome, the supeiority of the Raptor over the Eagle is undeniable.
Ok guys, let's return to the main subject and leave the whole Raptor, Eagle, Typhoon issues for another chapter.
As for the Pakistani-made fighter (I pressume the FC-1?), well I SURELY hope that M'sia does buy it, cos' the RMAF insignia sure looked good on that plane. -
LoL,Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Whatever fighter jet it is...be glad we are away from the days of WWII whereby each and every plane are more or less the same..with not much significant advantage against each other..
Pilots of those days took off from their airfields..never to return again..
Kudos to those people who manufacture advanced planes so that pilots can return home safely...after defending their countries
I wonÂ’t buy the whole story is about whether the Fighter is superior enough vs one another or not.
If u got this mindset, and believe itÂ’s absolutely correct, then logically, u will c the USAF only deploy the invincible F/A22 and save the trouble of developing another inferior type JSF which going to be the main 21st AF fleet. On the contrary, the No of F/A22 is cut again n again to mere 100+ sth..
If that is true, then why the SAF most likely will select the worst air superiority F15 among the available 3 choices? The F15 lost the simulated air combat to Russian Su27 as early as 1990s and then recently lost to IAFÂ’s Su30MKI and a pair of RAFÂ’s EF2000 only took bare 1 minus to turn to the pair of USAF F15E's deadly 6 O'clock. The French Rafale as well overcame SaudiÂ’s F15S in war games before. U want pilot of F15T Kodos to whom?
My version of the story is :
AWACS( or at least AEWS) + Datalink + enough BVR Combat platforms
I wonÂ’t single out the individual fighterÂ’s air superiority as the benchmark.