Counter for MLRS?
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What are the ways to counter or minimise the damage done by a deliberate and sudden saturated rocket strike such as Astros. Do we use our Primus for counter attack or airstrike? How is our Primus compared with Astros?Thanks
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Primus vs astros like M-16 vs shotgun
counterstrike - (i) first shot. (ii) Hit resupply. (iii) know where registeration sites beforehand, put mother of all claymores (those who know know which mother I mean) and press the plunger.
Astros is a area weapon effective against fixed targets like airfields. Simply estimate the range, draw a circle for probable launch sites and shoot anything that moves into site. You'd probable need a clear (enuff) site (no overhead cover like rubber or oil palm estates), fairely good access and no intervening blockage.
(Caution Note - a childish attempt by someone fishing for effective range of Primus - haha ) -
went to google the ASTROS..it look like some weapon from Dune .Aniway ..reading the specs ..some of the bigger calibre rockets can hit targets up to 90km away ..its pretty long range..Aniway i was just skimming thouigh the pictures..Are the rockets unguided ? meaning once fired, u hope the missle stays on trajectory and hits its intented area ?
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ASTROS II is unguided, but then so are artillery shells. They have a pretty large CEP, so lots of missiles are fired to saturate an area.
To be honest, there is no counter to MLRS type systems. If someone wants to shoot it at you, there is no way to prevent yourself from being hit. The key is for us to ensure that that hit will not be fatal. This means force protection for the troops and civil defence for the civilians.
In terms of active force protection, it becomes even more important that we hit first. Our troops must be past the border and therefore dispersed, which will minimize the effect of an MLRS strike. If we are hit while our troops, equipment and ammo are still concentrated in their camps, it will be disasterous. Our planes must be in the air before MLRS disables the runways, and the first strike they deliver must be utterly devastating. The ships and subs must be at sea.
In terms of passive force protection measures, we need to invest in hardened aircraft shelters (HAS) and runway repair systems for the airforce, hardened ammo bunkers for the army and hardened C4IT systems for the whole force.
In terms of civil defence, it is important that civilians take it seriously. The vast majority of civilian casualties sustained during bombing are due to flying broken glass, so it is important that as hostilities become likely, everyone follows blackout instructions and tapes their windows. Our country is very strongly prepared for bombing, with numerous bomb shelters and tough, fire-resistant construction that will minimize civilian casualties. The only question is how bombing will affect morale. Historically, bombing of civilians increases the morale of both troops and civilians, but we will have to see if that's true in our case.
In war, men die. Just because we can be hit and hurt by MLRS does not mean we are defeated. We will just take casualties, and that's perfectly normal and perfectly alright. We will simply ensure that however many casualties we take, the enemy takes far more as we take his land from him. MLRS is just another weapon. -
Use laser to burn the incoming rocket!
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Singapore already uses the high-tech stuffs for defending it's bases..
Singapore knows that it's bases lies in extreme vulnearability...
Anyway, if anything happens, the F-16 BLK 52+ will be up in the sky long before the MLRS gets deployed.. -
All hardware no software involved? Red berets for show only ah?
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really ?Originally posted by baer:(Caution Note - a childish attempt by someone fishing for effective range of Primus - haha )
thank god i dunno anything and i dont answer anything here....
later reveal everything 
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Unlike guns, rockets tend to be fired to blanket an grid reference, cannot be sustained or adjusted for accuracy/effectiveness. Because of high volume needs longer tail and takes longer to reload.
Common mistake to match one system against another of same type.
In most conflicts MRLS are countered by air strike or ground raid, seldom counter battery fire due to 'shoot and scoot' method of deployment. -
IMHO its like a deterrent weapon. Its good that they have it before some of the guys here get too arrogant.
However I do not believe that the ASTROS will ever be used against any civilian target here.
There are too many PRs here which origin from across the causeway.
And I believe these PRs has lots of relatives back home.
Power Plants, commerical airports or ports are possible target. But guess that's where they employed lots of PRs and foreign works too..
Anyone using MLRS on civilians is gonna kana sanction from the whole world.
That's a very big price to pay for using those stuff. -
I do not think the Guards or Cdo's are there for show.Forward defence anyone?
Similarly,given the number of years that has gone by,I'm quite sure Mindef has come up with some silver bullet to counter the ASTROS or at least some measures to reduce its effectivness considerably.
In the meantime,our close friend Israel is developing the Tactical Laser to use against artillery shells.I think something along the lines of that laser defese system could be used as a form of ocuntermeasure against the threat from ASTROS.
I think it is perhaps about time that we had some Israeli high levels officials visit Singapore,perhaps with upgarded and more transparent military ties.We need to show our strength to certain neighbouring states. -
Originally posted by Sardaukar:
this isn't the 70s anymore.
I think it is perhaps about time that we had some Israeli high levels officials visit Singapore,perhaps with upgarded and more transparent military ties.We need to show our strength to certain neighbouring states. -
well if our F-16s go up,and the runways get destroyed..what happens then?
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You are most welcomed to land on Subang or Butterworth, if your runways are out.
Cheers! -
Originally posted by idwar:You are most welcomed to land on Subang or Butterworth, if your runways are out.
Cheers!
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You last paragraph will only incite more suspicion and hostility.In case you do not know, the biggest geopolitical threat to SEA is from East Asia.Originally posted by Sardaukar:I do not think the Guards or Cdo's are there for show.Forward defence anyone?
Similarly,given the number of years that has gone by,I'm quite sure Mindef has come up with some silver bullet to counter the ASTROS or at least some measures to reduce its effectivness considerably.
In the meantime,our close friend Israel is developing the Tactical Laser to use against artillery shells.I think something along the lines of that laser defese system could be used as a form of ocuntermeasure against the threat from ASTROS.
I think it is perhaps about time that we had some Israeli high levels officials visit Singapore,perhaps with upgarded and more transparent military ties.We need to show our strength to certain neighbouring states.
I rather see neighbours defending each other if the need ever arises.But it's good to be mindful for each other at the same time. -
Originally posted by idwar:You are most welcomed to land on Subang or Butterworth, if your runways are out.
Cheers! -
First thing , they only have 18,Originally posted by beavan:well if our F-16s go up,and the runways get destroyed..what happens then?
2nd they are super inaccurate.
Last thing ,we have 5 airbases with number of runways each plus two commercial airports plus number of highway/runways.
So could they do it???
Nah!!!
Unless they get more & with better accuracy, then we should start to worry.
But we have two options if that happen:
1)Get at least one Sqn of STOVL, that should not be a problem, afterall we are in the F-35 program.
2) with the high threat of rocket against SG and especially SG is an important logistics base for USN, we might able to persude US to sell us their THEL system.
So with option 1, we certainly have the ability to strike back and strike back hard!!!!
Plus option 2 will make the Astros totally obsolete!!! -
Why not move everything you've got to Hainan Island? There you'll be safe from all ASTROS......better still......Christmas Island !!!! -
Better still , why don't we just invade and occupy Johore so that SG will be out of range fro Astros!!!Originally posted by idwar:Why not move everything you've got to Hainan Island? There you'll be safe from all ASTROS......better still......Christmas Island !!!!
Afterall , Johor is nearer than Hainan and Christmas island!! -
You dare to occupy Johor?
Not afraid your little boy soldiers get corrupted by xxx-rated VCDs from Holiday Inn?
Now be a good boy and run back to mummy..... ( sorry, Don't flame me........., I was just quoting your Press article that your Uni boys are whinning at NUS/NTU lah....) -
MLRS is a cost-effective mobile-rocket-based artillery system. It provides MAF's ability to neutralise SAF advantage, esp in the air power.Originally posted by tankee1981:What are the ways to counter or minimise the damage done by a deliberate and sudden saturated rocket strike such as Astros. Do we use our Primus for counter attack or airstrike? How is our Primus compared with Astros?Thanks
MLRS has the ability to rapid deployment hence reducing detection. It will temporarily deny effective operations of large/key bases and installation.
It will not, however, destroy nor permanently incapacitate them. IMO, MAF's MILRS serve more as a ability respond instead of providing 1st-strike ability. That, MAF knows, is still SAF's domain.
MAF knows also MLRS does not hv tactical projection flexibity in face of highly-mobilised and de-centralised adversary.
Limited manpower and land determine that SAF need to reduce such based-centric system to Net-centric C3I. That is why RMA is such critical development for the next 20 yrs.
Tactically, since MLRS is not a precison system nor capable of responding to a flexible and mobile units, as mentioned earlier. This means MLRS are best used during the initial (1st-strike) engagement on large static targets to ensure effective results. Unfortunately, this 1st-to-use window will be severly shortened or handicapped by both political and strategic factors.
For political factors, KL is fully aware how Singapore will response when she feels threatened. Forward defence. Simply put, having an effective deterrence by means of an offensive leaning military response, when all diplomacy become exhausted. And using MLRS on densely populated city-state will not pay dividend on the international stage, if not suicidal.
For the strategic (military) aspect, the SAF already publicised available and operational sytems which reduces the need for base-centric C3I, in favour of a net-centric and decentralisation. That has been much emphasis its RMA affort in the pass and much more in the coming decade with consideration of counter-terrorist need.
In fact, such system are already available in SAF ORBAT. Basic UAVs, satallite, electronic/intel eaves droppings and TCP-IP based commsets. These systems already provide a foundation for a complete net-centic offensive force. On the projection front, special forces have been integrated with remote systems and other mobile units like AH64.
Focus here is to provide flexible and rapid tactical changes in all possible conditions.
IMO, MLRS is more of a political statement and a strategic answer via a cost-effective tactical system to a nimble small adversary. MLRS will not threaten nor capable of achieving a knockout punch on such an opponent. That will require a complete re-evaluation of Malaysia's defence doctrine and procurement pattern.
I believe MLRS users know that full well.
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I am more concern tat SG's govt start clamping down on all illegal VCD/DVD from Johor after we have occuppied it!!!Originally posted by idwar:You dare to occupy Johor?
Not afraid your little boy soldiers get corrupted by xxx-rated VCDs from Holiday Inn?
Now be a good boy and run back to mummy..... ( sorry, Don't flame me........., I was just quoting your Press article that your Uni boys are whinning at NUS/NTU lah....)
Afterall, you know how strict SG govt on this.
No more cheap bootleg VCD/DVDs!!!
Then with our young boys with no way to release their pressure and start to impregnate Johor gals!!!!
Then govt will start to pay out lot of child subsidy!!!!!
Becos of huge subsidy pay out, govt start to increase taxes for tobacco & alcohol to cover it!!!
With this , our young boys will not able to enjoy these simple pleasures and start to impregnate more Johor gals!!!!
Will this ever end!!!!! -
Originally posted by idwar:
Actually, Johor had been occupied for the last 3 decades by Singapore, primarily by PUB for its water resource and management, then in later by Singaporean investors looking for cheap labours and land.
You dare to occupy Johor?
SunZu stated that the art of winning a war is to "occupy" a land without starting one, with minimal or zero use of military force with minimal destruction. Isn't every weekend such an excercise ? A peaceful "occupation" of Johor and welcomed by many a Johorian and at the pleasure of Singaporean invaders (err...visitors) ?
Not afraid your little boy soldiers get corrupted by xxx-rated VCDs from Holiday Inn?
You hv under estimated NS boy resource in getting this adult thingie. And count your lucky Star that they aren't like US military personnels who love flushing Qurans down toilet bowls. That is what I called corrupted.Now be a good boy and run back to mummy..... ( sorry, Don't flame me........., I was just quoting your Press article that your Uni boys are whinning at NUS/NTU lah....)
You'll be glad to know the same good boy was in Indonesia for weeks to assist on the recover of Tsunmai disaster. They came in planes, helos and ships. Some even volunteered on the join task force. "Whinny" NS boys ? I don't think they deserve such labeling. Much less so as a "rapist" that so occupied Malaysian media about Malaysia's NS boys & gals. -
Idwar does not need such an intellectual answer..he might be a phisher.