Our sky is always clear --E2C & FPS 117
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Many people are afraid that there will be unwelcome aircraft.
Source:Strait Times 14.07.1998 pg 26.
The sky is being watched.
1.Do u know we have 4 E2C Hawkeye .They have been upgraded to Group 2.
It has endurance of 6 hours and detetion radius of 360 km.They were bought in 80's for a sum equal to defense budget of that year.A King's ransom.
Ground radar FPS 117,bought on late 1996, has range of 460 km.They combine and get a total range more than 800 km.
The 2 main RMAF are situate about 450km from here.So,we are always keep an hawkeye on them.
Enemy airplane would run out of fuel when they reach St John's Island
2.Some think that hostile airplane can just make a dash to attack
If a plane can fly 1500 km/h,it take 20 mins to fly 500 km.In this case,we won't
has enough time to response.
However,do u know if a plane fly at top speed.it will consume 6 to 15 %
of their fuel per minute.The plane can only fly 7 to 17 mins at top speed.
Say the plane can fly 20 mins at top speed.Then ,it can only fly 500 km.
Ref book:How to make a War.
3.Have a good sleep tonite.Our sky is always clear. -
No doubt , But E2-C has it's weaknesses as well...
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Yes, the crew operating them still need to eat. No such thing called tapow.
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the only tapow on a plane is what you make yourself.. ;-)Originally posted by ditzy:Yes, the crew operating them still need to eat. No such thing called tapow. -
What do you mean by they "combine and get a total range more than 800 km."?
Radar doesn't work that way dude... You'll get 2 seperate read-outs of 360 and 460 km respectively, and not a more powerful wave going 800 km... -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
20 mins to fly 500 km?? that works out 416m/s
Enemy airplane would run out of fuel when they reach St John's Island
2.Some think that hostile airplane can just make a dash to attack [b]
If a plane can fly 1500 km/h,it take 20 mins to fly 500 km.In this case,we won't
has enough time to response.
However,do u know if a plane fly at top speed.it will consume 6 to 15 %
of their fuel per minute.The plane can only fly 7 to 17 mins at top speed.
Say the plane can fly 20 mins at top speed.Then ,it can only fly 500 km.
Ref book:How to make a War.
[/b]
there'r only 2 kinds of planes can do this: F22 and eF2000
Becoz they got supersonic cruise ability...
Others?
sorry, probably they'll have their afterburner on to achieve 416m/s
and I'm very sure they won't last for more than 1 min....
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I just read fr Strait Times.I think by relay?
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Our air defence consists of more then just aircrafts, radars and ADA.well, to be exact,not just our airspace but in fact Singapore's soverngity is being guarded by guardian angels while you are reading this.
sleep well,not just tonight but every night.for not only will our skies be clear but our seas are calm -
38�Ž.I just pick 1500km fr air.I think 1000 km is more realistic.
Do u think so"
In genreal.dunt talk RSAF,is it right to say fuel will consume at
6 to 15 % per min for top speed for advanced fighters? -
True true, our ion cannons will make mince of anything that dares touch us.
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but if you place the E-2C at the max radar range of the FPS-117, then you could hit 800km.Originally posted by aerozapper:What do you mean by they "combine and get a total range more than 800 km."?
Radar doesn't work that way dude... You'll get 2 seperate read-outs of 360 and 460 km respectively, and not a more powerful wave going 800 km...
the FPS-117 cover the first 450km, the E-2C operating at the edge of the FPS-117 max 450km range covers forward an additional 350km... viola... 800km!
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That is if the enemy don't shoot us down for going the first 450 km....Originally posted by tripwire:but if you place the E-2C at the max radar range of the FPS-117, then you could hit 800km.
the FPS-117 cover the first 450km, the E-2C operating at the edge of the FPS-117 max 450km range covers forward an additional 350km... viola... 800km! -
Pilots only go full speed only during "exceptional times"....Originally posted by lionnoisy:38�Ž.I just pick 1500km fr air.I think 1000 km is more realistic.
Do u think so"
In genreal.dunt talk RSAF,is it right to say fuel will consume at
6 to 15 % per min for top speed for advanced fighters? -
in peace time... they cant, since our E-2C would be flying in international airspace.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:That is if the enemy don't shoot us down for going the first 450 km....
as long as our E-2C flies outside the territorial airspace of other nations, they can scan all they want.
in wartime... i doubt there is a single airforce in this region capable of shooting down our E-2C without facing off our fighter escorts -
Supplement info.The price was US$450million,or S$783m.Then.s$ not so high.
It was exceeding the defense budget in 1983 and could buy 20 plus of F16 instead. -
I was hoping that RSAF would upgrade the E-2C to the Hawkeye 2000 standard. However, I believe that ST Aero has done so much indigenious updates on the platform that it would be difficult to go down that path.
One other thing is that there are much "noise" about LALEE but a few years have past without seeing it in real operation. So much for indigenious UAV AEW platform. Perhaps Singapore should join the Global Hawk program.
Lastly, I am also wondering why RSAF has never consider (at least publicly) in the Wedgetails. It is an awesome AEW platform, probably the Best AEW in the world right now. Buying two to support a strike package would be ideal given its much higher speed than the propeller driven Hawkeyes. -
i am waiting to see the LALEE as well...Originally posted by Joe Black:I was hoping that RSAF would upgrade the E-2C to the Hawkeye 2000 standard. However, I believe that ST Aero has done so much indigenious updates on the platform that it would be difficult to go down that path.
One other thing is that there are much "noise" about LALEE but a few years have past without seeing it in real operation. So much for indigenious UAV AEW platform. Perhaps Singapore should join the Global Hawk program.
Lastly, I am also wondering why RSAF has never consider (at least publicly) in the Wedgetails. It is an awesome AEW platform, probably the Best AEW in the world right now. Buying two to support a strike package would be ideal given its much higher speed than the propeller driven Hawkeyes.
as for the wedgetail... its search range is less then the E-2C... by about 100km
for a small country like ours... the longer the search range... the better.. we do not enjoy the luxury of space like australia does... -
I think for China , they can...USA once claimed that it's spy plane was at international air space, but chinese aircraft still scrambled , i think it was the 2001 incident..Originally posted by tripwire:in peace time... they cant, since our E-2C would be flying in international airspace.
as long as our E-2C flies outside the territorial airspace of other nations, they can scan all they want.
in wartime... i doubt there is a single airforce in this region capable of shooting down our E-2C without facing off our fighter escorts
Extracted from BBC NEWS WORLD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1260290.stm
"On 1 April 0915 (local time), the EP-3 plane was on a routine surveillance mission in international airspace over the South China Sea.
It was intercepted by two Chinese fighter aircraft. US Admiral Dennis Blair said such encounters were not unusual."
That means malaysia can intercept der...
thats where ur wrong lah.... -
Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:
1. china is not regarded as part of this region...
I think for China , they can...USA once claimed that it's spy plane was at international air space, but chinese aircraft still scrambled , i think it was the 2001 incident..
Extracted from BBC NEWS WORLD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1260290.stm
"On 1 April 0915 (local time), the EP-3 plane was on a routine surveillance mission in[b] international airspace over the South China Sea.
It was intercepted by two Chinese fighter aircraft. US Admiral Dennis Blair said such encounters were not unusual."
That means malaysia can intercept der...
thats where ur wrong lah....[/b]
2. its still nice to know that only superpowers like PRC actually have the ability to intercept out E-2C.
3. i doubt our E-2C flies that far from singapore.
4. the PLAF AAR is limited and i doubt they are interested in flying this far south from PRC. -
Sorry if I offend anyone...
Radar are used to compile picture for the warfare officers to plan stretegies, attacks, detection etc...
Radar cannot kill enemy, maybe it can kill their sperm if they are near and transmitting at very high power.
Even if E2C are at the edge of FPS117 max range and itself provides radar pictures and combine with FPS117 picture, it is still picture. We still need striking capability and attack force if you wanna detect and kill enemy at that far range.
In time of crisis or war, I dun think SAF will deploy E2C till that far out, maybe not into enemy territory or malacca straits. Maybe they will deploy up north at south china sea. As if they were deploy at that far range, they becomes very vulnerable to attacks by enemy airstrike and reinforcement may come too late.
In south China Sea it's different, the area are large, our RSN ships can co-ordinate with the airboys...
Furthermore, radar is a radar. A radar will inevitably only shows radar echos or radar bleeps. But you wont know what the contact is. You will need ESM ultimately. Finally I dun think our ESM system are that great that can help out to detect contacts at that far range. -
E2C or any airborne radar are considered High Value Assets (HVU). You NEVER place them at the front line. So you can't add 400+360=800km. Airborne radars are mainly to supplement the air picture, to pick up low flying aircraft that may not be picked up by ground-based radars. To put them in front is total suicide, unless you say the adversary has no air-threat.
So think again.. -
actually , its not about china..i think every country also has the right to send their aircraft over to international airspace....Originally posted by tripwire:1. china is not regarded as part of this region...
2. its still nice to know that only superpowers like PRC actually have the ability to intercept out E-2C.
3. i doubt our E-2C flies that far from singapore.
4. the PLAF AAR is limited and i doubt they are interested in flying this far south from PRC.
that means malaysia , like what china did , could send it's MIG-29 to intercept our E-2C hawkeye.. -
That is if malaysia tries to do it...but then if that happens , we will have 3 falcon pilots waving to the mig-29 pilot for every migs they got...
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Hi guess you guys miss out something...Endurance. 1 E-2C can hold up to 8+ hours. f-16 will need to be relieved and if you say MidAir Refueling, that means you are committing too much asset to this operation. Generally, the E-2 will fly just above our head or the furthest South China Sea where it quite difficult to "ambush". Their main purpose is to paint a better picture and C&C of air asset in the theatre. We will have a general air coverage over the area but not dedicated F-16s around E-2C. Our fighter jokeys also don't want their balls to get cook by the radiation.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:That is if malaysia tries to do it...but then if that happens , we will have 3 falcon pilots waving to the mig-29 pilot for every migs they got... -
You all also forgot about little known hero. Fokker F-50. This ASW aircraft guards our coast-line.