Coy support weapon.
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1st... aiming device, the oni weapon without any will be a knife. please check do the 60mm have any b4 saying.Originally posted by tvdog:Well, I may just be a runner but there is one thing I know is: how to save my ass. (But I also spent a great deal of time during NS in the Bde S2 branch.)
If my coy is tasked to walk across a wide open ground with surrounding high ground, I'm sure every man and his dog will be thinking the same questions. It's no't a matter of "if" the enemy will be on the high ground, but a question of "where and when" they will strike. The scenario you described is like those guys below just offered themselves for target practice.
Of course, I have read enough to know that a lot of stupidity occur in even the best armies and a lot of stupid orders are always handed out so men can get slaughtered on hopeless missions.
For sure I am only speculating that the handheld mortar is inaccurate. But, as there are no aiming devices as far as I can see, I cannot comprehend how you can fire it accurately, especially at the engagement distance you discribed. 600m is damn far away. Even on a clear day in an open ground, a human at 600m is a mere speck. A human sitting is a trench or behind cover you will likely not be able to see without optics.
Firing the handheld mortar will be like firing from the hip: you have to "walk" your rounds onto target. And a hand can't be that steady. And you need the whole shebang to accurately walk your rounds onto target at 600m.
You would need a commander/spotter to direct your rounds. For a handheld mortar, it would sound something like this: "...OK OK, now bend your elbows a little bit. Next your wrist you have to turn 3 degree to the right. Now hold it steady and give me one round of HE." And when you reach for the ammo your hand holding the mortar tube shifts.
Also, from all that I have read of all the WW2 handheld mortars, they all said the same thing. That's why the M203 quickly replaced them.
Smoke will not be a double edged sword cos you engaged me at a distance of 600m. Only my GPMG and 84mm can return fire. This is beyond the effective range of my infantry with their 5.56mm weapons. So all they can do is to advance under the cover of smoke to get close enough to return fire.
All those who survive the initial 300m can redeploy to a leap frog type attack. And I think casualty rate from 2 GPMG firing from 600, 500m will be manageable. One platoon cover, 2 platoons move. All their weapons like M16, SAW and M-203 can be brought into play at this point.
One more thing I don't understand is how come after the initial barrage you don't continue to call for more arty on the attacking infantry?
yah runner as you say you were and from me was a compliment to you for you can think and ask where the rest in here who say who there are can't.
have you fire a M203 b4? what accuracy are we talking here? 10%, 25%, 50% 99.9%... it all come down to what training has the man gone through. out of 10 rounds(M203) who can get 10 on point target. and who in SAF really had the chance of firing all 10 round in one go? max i think 3... maybe less now or maybe even dun have but just training round... curry powder...
there is no point telling one when one mind set was that 60mm cannot hit anything and best part is i dun think one had seen 60mmm handhald b4, even not to say one had fire 60mm. other than the photo i put up.
so if M203 can not have what ever accuracy you trying to tell me, why the 60mm can not be the same when it have a bigger caliber causing bigger impact, high trajectory...
yes M203 was replace fast for this handheld mortar. why? because it lighter, simple as that. and for that, but range was cut down, as for impact... well some say yes, some say no.
i dun know where you get the idea that arty fire can go on till no life was on the ground than you stop. have you call for fire b4? how many type of fire do you know there is? under what situation you can call for 1min, 5min, 20min bombardment and for this time what rates or how many round are going to fire onto the target area. allocation of fire... please dun ask me.
yes when you smoke out, it mean you dun see me i dun see you... you move... do i have to wait for you, when you counter why i can't. and btw, i had know where you are but you have not. read what was the scenario at that time again. even when some manage to move 300m... note all my weapon i am using is 7.62mm and i am on hight ground.
btw, ATEC OPFOR alway die in the end... oni a few cases where by unit cannot clear us fast enough, than the ex. director will call a halt to it for that mission.
again, if my man and i were sleeping, they will have by pass us and capture the final point, who will say that the CO is fcuk up. no one... it is this kind of 'things' ATEC try to instill into SAF fighting unit. that is why the 1st OPFOR is given so call 'full free play' of going on our mission.
it is to let them know enemy dun wait, enemy react.
back to topic again...
*60mm as i bring in, 4 tube, 24 round in one coy... and i think can have more if compare to the weight that some wish for a SLWAGL.
*2 sniper was brought in oso.
*SLWAGL... but how many pc never say yet, rounds to carry oso have not say.
who else has any other weapon or weapon systerm that you think should be or should have in the Coy support weapon. -
During one live firing I borowed an M203 and fired a couple of curry powder rounds at 300m.
The first one fell about 20m short but was travelling in the line I was aiming.
The 2nd one was on target after being advised what adjustment to make.
I have never fired an M203 prior to that. The only lesson I had in aiming was just five minutes before I fired the first round.
So that's why I had rather high opinion of the M203 and the simple flip sights.
It's possible that the handheld mortar has some kind of markings to indicate angle, or distance that I cannot see from the picture.
Since no one here has ever fired one, I can only base my judgement on a book I have that had pictures and write-ups about similar weapons from WW2. It said all handheld mortars were not accurate.
Of course, I have yet to read about the accuracy of the new handheld 51mm mortar. -
as i had say, with M203, the range was cut back down in hundreds...Originally posted by tvdog:During one live firing I borowed an M203 and fired a couple of curry powder rounds at 300m.
The first one fell about 20m short but was travelling in the line I was aiming.
The 2nd one was on target after being advised what adjustment to make.
I have never fired an M203 prior to that. The only lesson I had in aiming was just five minutes before I fired the first round.
So that's why I had rather high opinion of the M203 and the simple flip sights.
It's possible that the handheld mortar has some kind of markings to indicate angle, or distance that I cannot see from the picture.
Since no one here has ever fired one, I can only base my judgement on a book I have that had pictures and write-ups about similar weapons from WW2. It said all handheld mortars were not accurate.
Of course, I have yet to read about the accuracy of the new handheld 51mm mortar.
i am really confuse
from what you had said what you had been...
some time back, you say you a runner in another topic something on SAW.
in this topic you say your last NS was 9 years ago? some say you are POI which your time dun have and you not sure... red or blue you oso not sure?
still you say you are a runner? than some post back you say you in BDE S2 doing some worksss. i think there is one post from you that you are in command or something like that???
tell me you are just entertaining all in here all this while.
and now ~
live firing, no training? oni 5 min b4 hand, someone train by talk you into it and wah la... you go off to fire 2 round??? appointment runner?
BMT have M203 training dun they?
next any "flying" explosive will always have point target and area target... please check what is the distance or what i call effective range for point target for the M203 and what will be the effective range for area target.
(simple flip sights)it call leaf sight and to used it for target at 300m???
i was wondering... did they change the leaf sigh??? how come my was oni at 250m.
no one should have been I as in you.
as long anything dun match i will blah all out. -
the main discussion is to add in new weapon systerm, no point telling me that M203 can this can that... but what M203 cannot never say. and M203 was, and still is one of the platoon/section organic weapon.
AGL was bring in but half way, how many are to bring in still unknown, ammo to carry unknown...
sniper was bring in and that it, guy dun know where liao.
discussion oni... make clear, say you point, why this why that and that it... good, healthy discussion is good.
looking at the way things going...
-
Joshua
Entertaining, my service record?
Originally, I posted a very detailed rundown of my service record. But reading your post again, I decided that I now have only this to say:
GO FU.CK YOURSELF. -
Originally posted by tvdog:
curry powder is a poor judge of the actual handling of the weapon... too little recoil... its like firing blanks on an m16 and saying that the weapon handles very well...
[b]During one live firing I borowed an M203 and fired a couple of curry powder rounds at 300m.
i fired HEDP during my time... have to really hold it quite firmly... the jolt is quite unexpected... -
what kind of DOG you are... and which BiTcH give brith to you.Originally posted by tvdog:Joshua
Entertaining, my service record?
Originally, I posted a very detailed rundown of my service record. But reading your post again, I decided that I now have only this to say:
GO FU.CK YOURSELF.
too bad thing have to end this way... -
Joshua, wow... talk about low...
I'm not gonna stoop to your level and say something about your mom. I'm sure she's a fine woman whom have suffered all her life to bring you up. But what a disappointment you must've turned out to be. -
*stares hard in disgust at both parties*Originally posted by tvdog:Joshua, wow... talk about low...
I'm not gonna stoop to your level and say something about your mom. I'm sure she's a fine woman whom have suffered all her life to bring you up. But what a disappointment you must've turned out to be.
STFU both of you.
Let's get back to the topic yeah. -
Rank:Originally posted by Joshua1975:i am really confuse from what you had said what you had been...
some time back, you say you a runner in another topic something on SAW.
in this topic you say your last NS was 9 years ago? some say you are POI which your time dun have and you not sure... red or blue you oso not sure?
still you say you are a runner? than some post back you say you in BDE S2 doing some worksss. i think there is one post from you that you are in command or something like that???
tell me you are just entertaining all in here all this while.
and now ~
live firing, no training? oni 5 min b4 hand, someone train by talk you into it and wah la... you go off to fire 2 round??? appointment runner?
BMT have M203 training dun they?
next any "flying" explosive will always have point target and area target... please check what is the distance or what i call effective range for point target for the M203 and what will be the effective range for area target.
(simple flip sights)it call leaf sight and to used it for target at 300m???
i was wondering... did they change the leaf sigh??? how come my was oni at 250m.
no one should have been I as in you.
as long anything dun match i will blah all out.
Corporal
NSF:
Attached to National Day Parade planning cell for seven months. Later, Brigade S2 Branch, Went for Starlight.
NS (reservist)
First ICT S2 Branch Guards Bn.
Second ICT, posted back to infantry cos not heliborne qualified. Section Cmd (due to deferment of one NCO.)
Third ICT till Eighth ICT Platoon Runner.
Moved overseas, since 1997, so no more ICT.
It's been 9 years since I last served. So if I remember the range of the M203 wrong by 50m, big deal. Like I said, only borrowed it from the M203 guy to fire 2 rounds for fun. We had extra ammo to finish off so quite a few other people, including my PC and PS, took turns to fire the platoon's different weapons including the SAW and later at night the pen gun and other flare devices.
I have also fired a GPMG but if you ask me what are the range markings on the rear flip sight I can't remember either. My main weapon is just the M16.
You don't want to stick to the topic just say so. Don't sidetrack.
LaserLordz if you are reading this... well, why don't you just mind your own business? -
who diverted here... sidetrack
try to bring back to topic again....During one live firing I borowed an M203 and fired a couple of curry powder rounds at 300m.
The first one fell about 20m short but was travelling in the line I was aiming.
The 2nd one was on target after being advised what adjustment to make.
I have never fired an M203 prior to that. The only lesson I had in aiming was just five minutes before I fired the first round.
So that's why I had rather high opinion of the M203 and the simple flip sights.
It's possible that the handheld mortar has some kind of markings to indicate angle, or distance that I cannot see from the picture.
Since no one here has ever fired one, I can only base my judgement on a book I have that had pictures and write-ups about similar weapons from WW2. It said all handheld mortars were not accurate.
Of course, I have yet to read about the accuracy of the new handheld 51mm mortar.[/quote]healthy and good discussion so far... point dun stand dun make sense, no logic were all pointed out and some were brought up again down below...Originally posted by Joshua1975:
as i had say, with M203, the range was cut back down in hundreds...
i am really confuse from what you had said what you had been...
some time back, you say you a runner in another topic something on SAW.
in this topic you say your last NS was 9 years ago? some say you are POI which your time dun have and you not sure... red or blue you oso not sure?
still you say you are a runner? than some post back you say you in BDE S2 doing some worksss. i think there is one post from you that you are in command or something like that???
tell me you are just entertaining all in here all this while.
and now ~
live firing, no training? oni 5 min b4 hand, someone train by talk you into it and wah la... you go off to fire 2 round??? appointment runner?
BMT have M203 training dun they?
next any "flying" explosive will always have point target and area target... please check what is the distance or what i call effective range for point target for the M203 and what will be the effective range for area target.
(simple flip sights)it call leaf sight and to used it for target at 300m???
i was wondering... did they change the leaf sigh??? how come my was oni at 250m.
no one should have been I as in you.
as long anything dun match i will blah all out.
guess wat....Originally posted by Joshua1975:the main discussion is to add in new weapon systerm, no point telling me that M203 can this can that... but what M203 cannot never say. and M203 was, and still is one of the platoon/section organic weapon.
AGL was bring in but half way, how many are to bring in still unknown, ammo to carry unknown...
sniper was bring in and that it, guy dun know where liao.
discussion oni... make clear, say you point, why this why that and that it... good, healthy discussion is good.
looking at the way things going... 
[quote]Joshua
Entertaining, my service record?
Originally, I posted a very detailed rundown of my service record. But reading your post again, I decided that I now have only this to say:
GO FU.CK YOURSELF.start of key board fight... isn't this entertaining?
i am good in this, want to make a point, had better know what one is talking, please come with facts... i always like to put ppl down as some had say and more so when i am good with what i used to do.
AGL had stop, the facts on weights dun stand in the topics
sniper had stop, maybe trying to find out the role of sniper b4 coming back again. think this will be the last post for this topic from me... no one can come with any better weapon systerm or most think that what the SAF have is good enough...
For being label LOW after hitting back??? i will go to the lowest... YOU CAN GO FuCK the BiTcH who born you. -
Cool it man. TV Dog was wrong to ask to to F yourself. But you should bring his mum into the picture.Originally posted by Joshua1975:who diverted here... sidetrack start of key board fight... isn't this entertaining?
For being label LOW after hitting back??? i will go to the lowest... YOU CAN GO FuCK the BiTcH who born you.
Btw, the discussion has been informative till this point. Hope you guys can end on a positive note. -
Cool it man. TV Dog was wrong to ask to to F yourself. But you should not bring his mum into the picture.Originally posted by Joshua1975:who diverted here... sidetrack start of key board fight... isn't this entertaining?
For being label LOW after hitting back??? i will go to the lowest... YOU CAN GO FuCK the BiTcH who born you.
Btw, the discussion has been informative till this point. Hope you guys can end on a positive note. -
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=133980&page=1
been busy with work lately so not much time to check back on this thread.
anyway, i pretty much agree with what joshua1975 had pointed out that having 2 additional sniper at coy level might not be fully utilised.
therefore, maybe the sharpshooter version of the SAR21 can solve this problem. but i really feel that a bigger power long range weapon system might do some good.
that's all for me and peace guys. -
Joshua
I'm sure you can go lower than that. Show everyone here what you're really made of!!!! -
BRISBANE, AUSTRALIA – 12 July 2005 – Metal Storm Limited (ASX trading code: MST and NASDAQ Small Cap ticker symbol MTSX) today released information regarding a successful firing of the Area Denial Weapon System (ADWS) Capability Demonstrator which was undertaken at the Port Wakefield Proof and Experimental Range near Adelaide, Australia.
fr http://www.metalstorm.com/
The ADWS consortium project is sponsored by the Australian Department of Defence, and led by the Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO), and includes Metal Storm as a major consortium member. Tenix Defence Industries was a significant contractor to the project. ......
ADWS is based on integrating Metal Storm 40 mm stacked projectiles into a multi-barrel pod system and linking them with intrusion sensors and a fire control system.
The concept demonstration system comprised four weapon pods, each containing four barrels, networked and linked to a command and control station. Each demonstrator pod has the capability to fire up to 20 projectiles in varying user-selectable combinations including rates of fire, barrel selection and firing sequence.
The live fire demonstration used inert projectiles, and engaged simulated targets based on information provided by a computerised sensor system. Firing responses included a range of combinations from single shots through to a rapid-fire burst of 2O projectiles at a rate of 1500 rounds per minute. The pods are able to fire at a maximum rate of 6,000 rounds per minute. More barrels can be added to each pod to increase payload as required......
more awesome images fr http://jczs.sina.com.cn/2004-03-06/1647186106.html
http://jczs.sina.com.cn/2005-07-15/0829305963.html