Future RSN
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well...good point...but maintaining taiwan's status quo on the issue of independence...it's just as bad...nothing is worked on and the "tension" between the two Chinas may be bound to spill over,espically wif wad seems to be China's thoughts of reuniting wif taiwan through military force(in the worst case senario) which will bring veri negative connonations for all...Originally posted by suntze:I'm all for more democracy in PRC; however, Taiwanese move towards independence will upset the current status quo. The consequences will be bad for everyone, Singapore included. That's why I support maintaining status quo and leaving the issue for future generations of PRC/Taiwanese ppl to peacefully resolve between themselves. Trust you understand what is meant.
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Well think that the way out navy will be doing it. They will have a fleet out there, with regular planes sorties flying out as patrol also.Originally posted by rogee:I agree to your views! But what if we have a cobination of both a platform and fighting jets somewhere in pacific? -
I do.And I hope the future of the PRC is a democratic, prosperous nation.This is for the good of all.And who knows, their mentality towards the status quo might change as the younger generations grow up and so on..Originally posted by suntze:Hi Lazerlordz,
LHL's speech should be read in its entire context. When he said "if the conflict is provoked by Taiwan" he meant Taiwanese provocation by declaring independence or similar acts.
I'm all for more democracy in PRC; however, Taiwanese move towards independence will upset the current status quo. The consequences will be bad for everyone, Singapore included. That's why I support maintaining status quo and leaving the issue for future generations of PRC/Taiwanese ppl to peacefully resolve between themselves. Trust you understand what is meant. -
For the frigates.... i think the main adv over the MCVs and PVs because it can operate helicopters... they will be useful to ASW, OTH targetting and SAR.....
That is the leap in capability for the RSN. of course the increased operating range wil enable us to protect a larger part of our SLOCs.
However, we only havev 6x FFs which is very very small... and we cannot really say we have a blue water force. -
We are taking off our shoes and stepping into the water..when we are canoeing around the island, then we are a bluewater navy..but we are getting there.And I think the whole concept will be strong when and if our F-35s arrive.Originally posted by spencer99:For the frigates.... i think the main adv over the MCVs and PVs because it can operate helicopters... they will be useful to ASW, OTH targetting and SAR.....
That is the leap in capability for the RSN. of course the increased operating range wil enable us to protect a larger part of our SLOCs.
However, we only havev 6x FFs which is very very small... and we cannot really say we have a blue water force.
I would not be surprised to see LHDs and LPDs in 10-15 yrs time. -
In the next 10-15 years? Quite impossible to have more than 2 LHD/LPD in more opinion. Personally, the area I see RSN need to address are:Originally posted by LazerLordz:We are taking off our shoes and stepping into the water..when we are canoeing around the island, then we are a bluewater navy..but we are getting there.And I think the whole concept will be strong when and if our F-35s arrive.
I would not be surprised to see LHDs and LPDs in 10-15 yrs time.
1. by 2010, the replacement subs, probably 4 to 6 new Vikings or U212.
2. by 2012, the replacement of PVs with a fleet of stealth OPVs.
3. by 2015, the replacement of MCVs with some stealth covettes that can act as motherships to USVs.
4. by 2018, 2 LPD/LHDs that can carry approx 4-8 F-35Cs, 12 Helos of a mix of Chinnoks, Super Pumas, Seahawks and Apaches. -
hmm.. this vision of yours is going to cost us taxpayers some serious taxes for many years to come...
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ops... double post.
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LPD/LHDs , so many offensive stuffs,going to do what type of ops?
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Flying CAPs... surface strike for the Navy, CAS for the amphibious guards, etc ... what else?Originally posted by 38�Ž:LPD/LHDs , so many offensive stuffs,going to do what type of ops?
Having 2 LPDs/LHDs is by no mean offensive. -
Actually, Japan navy is the most powerful in Asia. Even Australians can't match them. Most of China Navy's asset are rather limited in capabilities. Besides Sovremenny-class destroyers, only seven Chinese ships, of the Luhai, Luhu, and Jiangwei classes, approach world standards for modern major surface combatants
A summary of Japan's naval assets:
15 Destroyers
9 Murasame Frigates(5,100 tons full load)
32 Frigates
18 subs
They are planning to build Haruna and Shirane-class helicopter-carrying destroyers that look like a small aircraft carrier. Speculation is that these destroyers can carry fixed wing aircrafts. -
2 is barely enough to sustain a long term humanitarian op.But it is good enough to do limited force projection without looking as if we want to rule the South China Sea.Originally posted by Joe Black:Flying CAPs... surface strike for the Navy, CAS for the amphibious guards, etc ... what else?
Having 2 LPDs/LHDs is by no mean offensive.
More naval helos perhaps to come.. -
It is gd to have bigger ships,more weapons.
But I think very important to be stealth,no matter how big u are.The big ship
without adquate protection ,will become the big floating grave yard !
Our frigate looks like 10 % of its orignal size on radar,or smaller.
Wat we need is a ship to hit sub,surface and air.,with better stealh.
Our sub is also stealth.Any authorized release official records how much it can shrink?
Pl note:I said authorized release. -
Ppl only mention how quiet the sub is...
Stealth for vessel is not as important as for fighter jet. even ur RCS reduced to 1/10th of the actual size, it's still very easy for radar to pick up . -
Totally agreed. RCS is important but if you are big in size, no matter how much you try, you are not going to look like a fishing boat to the radar. Even a submarine is scared of exposing its small little periscope for fear of detection by MPA.
Talking the future of RSN, personally, I would like to see the following:
1. Upgrade of our MCMV in near term.
2. New sub at the end of the decade.
3. Flexible support ship in the next decade.
What RSN lack is the kind of ship that can be used as a mothership for small insertion craft, UAV, USV, UUV etc. The current LST is not a good platform to do so. -
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Which boils down to a LPD class of ships needed.Originally posted by oerlikon:Totally agreed. RCS is important but if you are big in size, no matter how much you try, you are not going to look like a fishing boat to the radar. Even a submarine is scared of exposing its small little periscope for fear of detection by MPA.
Talking the future of RSN, personally, I would like to see the following:
1. Upgrade of our MCMV in near term.
2. New sub at the end of the decade.
3. Flexible support ship in the next decade.
What RSN lack is the kind of ship that can be used as a mothership for small insertion craft, UAV, USV, UUV etc. The current LST is not a good platform to do so. -
do u have a marine corp?!Originally posted by Joe Black:Flying CAPs... surface strike for the Navy, CAS for the amphibious guards, etc ... what else?
Having 2 LPDs/LHDs is by no mean offensive. -
No. I am not referring to LPD but something more like the Danish Absalon Flexible Support Ship. Nice ship. -
I think you need to brush up on your knowledge on PRC's naval capabilities.
The PLN has introduced several classes of new frigates and destroyers. They are namely:
Destroyers
Type 51C
Type 52B
Type 52C
Frigates
Type 54
They may not be as advanced as the Japanese Kongo class or maybe even Murasame cass, but they are definitely a quantum leap over even the Luhu class. At present rate of production, by the end of the decade, they can match the Japanese in several aspects, if not all, of naval warfare, especially anti-ship capabilities. Ultimately, it may boils down to training and logistics, as well as tactics, which I believe the Japanese would still hold the edge for quite a while.
See Http://www.sinodefense.com for more information.Originally posted by 84mmrr:Actually, Japan navy is the most powerful in Asia. Even Australians can't match them. Most of China Navy's asset are rather limited in capabilities. Besides Sovremenny-class destroyers, only seven Chinese ships, of the Luhai, Luhu, and Jiangwei classes, approach world standards for modern major surface combatants
A summary of Japan's naval assets:
15 Destroyers
9 Murasame Frigates(5,100 tons full load)
32 Frigates
18 subs
They are planning to build Haruna and Shirane-class helicopter-carrying destroyers that look like a small aircraft carrier. Speculation is that these destroyers can carry fixed wing aircrafts. -
Have seen that new destroyers and frigates in China in May 05 (location sensitive). Pendant No 168, 170 (destroyer size), 525 and 526 (smaller ships - frigate size).
170 - Equipped with Aegis lookalike Phase Array Radar, Band Stand SSM FCR, Project 956E's SAM FCR lookalike, 8 batteries X 6 cells VLS version of PL-10, 8 X SSM in tubular launcher (Possibly a imp version of C-802) 4 X 2 launchers, 2 X Goalkeeper CIWS (One in front, one at the aft) and one 100mm gun (French Creusot-Loire lookalike). Ka-28 Helo with hanger. CODOG
168 - Top-Plate 3D radar, FCR for SSM and SAM looks the same, 2 X single SA-N-7 launcher, 2 X Goalkeeper CIWS (One on each side). 4 X 4 SSM boxed launchers (looks like C-802, found onboard Luhai class), 2 X RBU rockets, Ka-28 with hanger.
525, 526 - French origin Surveillance radar (looks like sea tiger). Crotale SAM with associated FCR. 2 X 4 boxed launcher believe to be C-802. 100mm gun and Ka-28 with helo hangers. 2 X RBU-rockets, 4 X AK-630 type CIWS. (two on both side, above helo hanger and below the funnel) Looks like conventional propulsion. (Diesel engine)
Btw, JMSDF have been running around with Shirane and Haruna for several years. Haruna commissioned in Feb 1973, Shirane in Mar 1980. -
Are you referring to Oshimi and Shimokita? Haruna and Shirane are old destroyers which I had mentioned in previous posting. Oshimi and Shimokita, according to JMSDF, is a LST (LST? doesn't fit the designation). but in fact if you look at it close eoungh. It looks like a uncompleted assault carrier or LPH. What you need to put in is a ski ramp, just lke the invincible. By then, you can operate VTOL/STOL aircraft, which is easily available to them. AV-8 series. or V-22. They can also carry what they have now. Namely Seaknight, Chinook, Cobra, Apache and seahawk. Effectively a assault amphibious carrier. How about that. It is time for China to sell more goods to the world to get enough money to get herself a carrier to strike a balance in the region.Originally posted by 84mmrr:Actually, Japan navy is the most powerful in Asia. Even Australians can't match them. Most of China Navy's asset are rather limited in capabilities. Besides Sovremenny-class destroyers, only seven Chinese ships, of the Luhai, Luhu, and Jiangwei classes, approach world standards for modern major surface combatants
A summary of Japan's naval assets:
15 Destroyers
9 Murasame Frigates(5,100 tons full load)
32 Frigates
18 subs
They are planning to build Haruna and Shirane-class helicopter-carrying destroyers that look like a small aircraft carrier. Speculation is that these destroyers can carry fixed wing aircrafts. -
A china with aircraft carrier...
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Hmm..we should buy ourselves one of these babies.Originally posted by freeman8:Are you referring to Oshimi and Shimokita? Haruna and Shirane are old destroyers which I had mentioned in previous posting. Oshimi and Shimokita, according to JMSDF, is a LST (LST? doesn't fit the designation). but in fact if you look at it close eoungh. It looks like a uncompleted assault carrier or LPH. What you need to put in is a ski ramp, just lke the invincible. By then, you can operate VTOL/STOL aircraft, which is easily available to them. AV-8 series. or V-22. They can also carry what they have now. Namely Seaknight, Chinook, Cobra, Apache and seahawk. Effectively a assault amphibious carrier. How about that. It is time for China to sell more goods to the world to get enough money to get herself a carrier to strike a balance in the region.
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