Hero or Zero? Will you follow his order?

• SMAPLionHeart

  25 Jun 05, 03:28

  William Calley
  
  From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
  William Calley (born June 8, 1943) was a U.S. Army officer involved in the March 1968 My Lai Massacre. He graduated from high school in Miami, Florida, and went to Palm Beach Jr. College in Lake Worth, Florida. He later became a conductor for the Florida East Coast Railroad before becoming a United States Army lieutenant in the Vietnam War.
  
  Calley was charged on September 5, 1969 with six specifications of premeditated murder for the death of 109 Vietnamese civilians near the village of My Lai, at a hamlet called Song My, more commonly called My Lai in the U.S. press. In this well documented incident, 500 villagers, mostly women, children, infants and elderly, were assembled and then shot by soldiers of Charlie Company, Americal Division.
  
  Calley's trial started on November 17, 1969 and resulted in a conviction on March 29, 1971 of premeditated murder of 22 civilians for his role in the massacre. On March 31, 1971 he was sentenced to life in prison.
  
  Testimony revealed that Calley had ordered the men of Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, American Division to shoot everyone in the village. Calley claimed that he was following the orders of his immediate superior, Captain Ernest Medina. Whether or not this order was actually given is disputed; Medina was later acquitted of all charges relating to the incident at a separate trial. Of the 26 officers and soldiers initially charged for their participation in the My Lai massacre or the subsequent cover-up, only Calley was convicted.
  
  Calley was seen by some as a scapegoat used by the U.S. Army instead of accepting responsibility for the failure to instill morale and discipline in its troops and commanders. Others, with lack of knowledge about his education or background, sought to excuse his actions because of his allegedly low intelligence and cultural background.
  
  On April 1, only a day after Calley was sentenced, President Richard Nixon ordered him released from prison; in August 1971 his term was reduced to 20 years. Ultimately, Calley only served 3½ years of house arrest in his quarters at Fort Benning, Georgia and was released in 1974 by a federal judge. He is now a jeweler in Columbus, Georgia.
  
  Hugh Thompson
  
  Huge Thompson was a helicopter pilot during the Vietnam War. He is chiefly known for his role during the My Lai massacre, during which he was flying a reconnaissance mission.
  
  Thompson, on seeing soldiers methodically killing civilians, landed his helicopter in between the soliders of Charlie Company and a bunker of Vietnamese non-combatants who were taking refuge in a bunker. Confronting the commanding officers of the company, he threatened to shoot anyone who opened fire on the surviving Vietnamese. Thompson then evacuated the remaining civlians by helicopter out of Son My.
  
  Warrant Officer Thompson was trying to provide support for both US troops and to villagers. He believed that US troops were here to protect the civilians but upon witnessing several murders of civilians, Thompson and the crew realised what their own troops were doing. At this point, they stopped trusting the safety of the villagers to the ground troops, and proceeded to the evacuation with their own means and authority.
  
  Thompson confronted the leaders of the troops. Several sources believe he would have been prepared to open fire on the US troopers if they did not let the helicopters proceed with the evacuation (Quote: He walked back to the aircraft. He said: "I'm going to go over and get them out of the bunker myself. If the squad opens up on them, shoot 'em." And he walked away Lawrence Colburn, [1] (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2002/0310/cover.html)), and covered the villagers with his own body.
  
  The crewmembers were credited with saving at least 11 lives, yet for long after they were reviled as traitors. Exactly thirty years later, the three were awarded the Soldier's Medal, the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.
  
  Everyone in the army , knows its an offense to disobey orders, so what are your view on thie crisis? It's amazing how 1 crisis , can have 1 hero and 1 zero..So what makes what's right and what's wrong in a war?
  
  
• panicTheory

  25 Jun 05, 03:35

  war is necessary but stupid.
  
  Heroes are made according to the times. If the global wind is blowing in the direction of compassion, compassion will be appreciated.
  
  You can say that if you were given an order by a superior officer to kill someone you think is innocent, you wont ever do it. But when you are in a war, everything is grey. Your friends are dying. You are being shot at. Nothing is as concrete as what it seems.
  
  Alot of the viet war vets had PTSD and acted irrationally upon returning home. I believe most of these people were reacting to the orders they followed previously in the war.
  
  So i guess it boils down to how much your survival means to you, is it worth the expense of your sanity?
• SMAPLionHeart

  25 Jun 05, 03:41

  Gradually the furor died down. Colburn and Thompson lived in relative anonymity until a 1989 television documentary on My Lai reclaimed them as forgotten heroes. David Egan, a Clemson University professor who had served in a French village where Nazis killed scores of innocents in World War II, was amazed by the story. He campaigned to have Thompson and his team awarded the coveted Soldier's Medal. It wasn't until March 6, 1998, after internal debate among Pentagon officials (who feared an award would reopen old wounds) and outside pressure from reporters, that Thompson and Colburn finally received medals in a ceremony at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.
  
  But both say a far more gratifying reward was a trip back to My Lai this March to dedicate a school and a "peace park." It was then they finally met a young man named Do Hoa, who they believe was the boy they rescued from that death-filled ditch. "Being reunited with the boy was just...I can't even describe it," says Colburn. And Thompson, also overwhelmed, doesn't even try.
  
  On that historic morning, Thompson set his helicopter down near the irrigation ditch full of bodies. He asked a sergeant if the soldiers could help the civilians, some of whom were still moving. The sergeant suggested putting them out of their misery. Stunned, Thompson turned to Lieutenant Calley, who told him to mind his own business. Thompson reluctantly got back in his helicopter and began to lift off. Just then Andreotta yelled, "My God, they're firing into the ditch!"
  
  WO vs LT..
  
  LESSONS FROM MY LAI ON DRAWING THE LINE
  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/2002/0310/cover.html
  
  This is what something every soldier should know.
• SMAPLionHeart

  25 Jun 05, 03:44

  When an Iraqi wears a top covering his head and kills an American = Terrorist
  
  When an American kills an Iraqi who wears a top covering his head = Hero
  
  Just the difference of two different nationalities..2 different outcomes.
  Why is this so?
• panicTheory

  25 Jun 05, 03:51

  Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:

  When an Iraqi wears a top covering his head and kills an American = Terrorist
  
  When an American kills an Iraqi who wears a top covering his head = Hero
  
  Just the difference of two different nationalities..2 different outcomes.
  Why is this so?

  Because our economy is backed up on the US economy.
  
  Because the US have been the global police for a long time that it goes against the conventional to think them wrong.
  
  Because there is a consensus that Iraq started the war.
  
  Because our media is influenced by them.
  
  What makes you think the iraqi that kills the american arent celebrated as heroes in their part of the middle east and beyond?
  
  News is always subjective. And what sorts of media you consume determines your stance in a situation.
  
  my personal opinion is that this war was blown way out of proportion. The show of force was too extreme. And the media manipulation was/is ridiculous.
• SMAPLionHeart

  25 Jun 05, 03:59

  Originally posted by panicTheory:

  Because our economy is backed up on the US economy.
  
  Because the US have been the global police for a long time that it goes against the conventional to think them wrong.
  
  Because there is a consensus that Iraq started the war.
  
  Because our media is influenced by them.
  
  What makes you think the iraqi that kills the american arent celebrated as heroes in their part of the middle east and beyond?
  
  News is always subjective. And what sorts of media you consume determines your stance in a situation.
  
  my personal opinion is that this war was blown way out of proportion. The show of force was too extreme. And the media manipulation was/is ridiculous.

  the difference between right or wrong is a matter of opinion.
• tripwire

  25 Jun 05, 06:59

  it depends on whose side are you on...
  
  you call your own soldiers heros.. but the enemy soldiers murderers.... that is always how it works out...
  
  people who call the enemy as heros are traitors who does not appreciate the risk their own soldiers undergoes to defend them.
• nismoS132

  25 Jun 05, 15:54

  basically.
  
  if i were a general.
  
  and somehow i've gained control of an enemy city.
  
  and i can force the enemy's surrender, by threatening the lives of the civilians in this city.
  
  and prove that i will do what i do by massacring 10% of them.
  
  i will do so.
  
  better more of their people die now to end everything, than more of my people in future.
• SpecOps87

  25 Jun 05, 20:44

  We must first know who the enemy is...these days war is fought with faceless enemies.An innocent civilian spared a single 5.56 round to the head in the day,may turn out to be an enemy commander in the night and rally troops to go against friendly forces.How do we justify killing them?
  
  Perhaps we should make it a ROE that we only shoot armed civilians or those who are armed but not in the uniform of friendly forces.But so far,the one which has worked so far is the American policy of not firing unless fired upon when dealing with such a situation.But this ain't such a good position to adopt as when a shot's fired...it may already be too late.Should make it like,the moment they point a weapon in the direction of friendly forces,they should be given a warning before being dealt with deadly force.
• LazerLordz

  25 Jun 05, 20:53

  Originally posted by SpecOps87:

  We must first know who the enemy is...these days war is fought with faceless enemies.An innocent civilian spared a single 5.56 round to the head in the day,may turn out to be an enemy commander in the night and rally troops to go against friendly forces.How do we justify killing them?
  
  Perhaps we should make it a ROE that we only shoot armed civilians or those who are armed but not in the uniform of friendly forces.But so far,the one which has worked so far is the American policy of not firing unless fired upon when dealing with such a situation.But this ain't such a good position to adopt as when a shot's fired...it may already be too late.Should make it like,the moment they point a weapon in the direction of friendly forces,they should be given a warning before being dealt with deadly force.

  The latter point is right.In urban warfare these days, your personal judgement made under fire is even more important, especially if you are a commander of sorts.
  
  I would set a deadline for the civilians to vacate the area populated by insurgents or enemy troops, if they are able but choose to stay behind as defenders, they are legitimate targets to be engaged.If the enemy shoots their civilians who escape, I will insert a medium armed recon team to open up a pathway/escape route and assist in combat evacuation. Their casualties might be high, but I also have to bear in mind public opinion in the aftermath of the war.
  
  You cannot fight a war today without seeing a camera in your face today.
  
  But once legitimacy is assured, I will focus on forward area clearing advance and mop-up/denial ops at the back as I move into the heart of the city.Covering your six is equally important, to avoid being ambushed and trapped into firing wildly, surrounded and massacred, and having your other fellow troops murder civilians as revenge for their enemies' deviousness.
  
  You fight in a web, everyone's linked in one way or another.
• riken1974

  26 Jun 05, 12:08

  To add on....Collin Powell was involved with the cover up of My Lai Massacare