People's Liberation Army?
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One thing's for sure: it's still quite confusing which is which. A lot of people on other forums identitfy the Type 98G as the Type 99 like you did.Originally posted by 38�Ž:using V-shaped bar to differentiate Chinese MBTs is not reliable. Many Russian/china tanks have such design.
Anyway, it is no secret that both of them are copy of the Russian T-72. Chinese friends told me a very interesting but not very detailed story of how the Chinese captured a Russian T-72 intact.
Both countries have frequent cross-border skirmishes. One Russian T-72 was disabled while crossing a river. The details are sketchy but it either sank, or broke down, the crew drowned etc.
The Chinese went apeshxt to try and capture it and they succeeded. The Russians demanded its return.
The Chinese did return it, but not before they brought this trophy to Shanghai for research and evaluation. And thus was born the first Chinese modern MBT, which, not surprisingly, looks like the T-72.
Also, remember the cruise missiles the Americans fired at the Chinese Embassy in Sarajevo (spelling?). Apparently one of them didn't explode and again went to the chinese for research and evaluation. So the PLA might have cruise missiles soon. -
Dunno man, very likely to be just steel instead of kevlar. If I get any info I'll defintely post it here.Originally posted by Texcoco:By the way, are those US-Army style helmet wore by the PLA troops Kelver Helmet? Or they simple a knock off?
A important part of the PLA's modernisation is its "look". Though they are making changes for real over the decades, one thing they wanted to shed quickly was the image of them being a peasant communist army.
So they adopted western-style dress.
US-style helmet and their cammo pattern is very western. Their number three is almost exactly the same as SAF. Bullpup rifle. No more stick grenades. And their next new tank will probably look like a Leopard 2.
This new look was first showcased to the world in 1997 for the HK Handover. It was also the first time their bullpup rifle was openly shown to the western media. A big part of it was that they don't want to alarm the HKers by stationing troops in HK dressed in traditional PLA uniforms. Their number three with beret make them look like other HK uniformed personnels like police, ambulance etc.
But the PLA especially on HK Island, mostly keep out of sight and is not allowed contact with the locals without supervision. All security duties are still handled by the HK police - which continues to be a superb organisation still with many British expat officers. -
Originally posted by tvdog:
Regarding the tank,I thought it is a T-62? After Soviet Union collaspe in 1990,Soviet provide plenty of assistance to help PLA design Type 96,98 and 98G.So no need to go into so much work in RE a capture T-72.
One thing's for sure: it's still quite confusing which is which. A lot of people on other forums identitfy the Type 98G as the Type 99 like you did.
Anyway, it is no secret that both of them are copy of the Russian T-72. Chinese friends told me a very interesting but not very detailed story of how the Chinese captured a Russian T-72 intact.
Both countries have frequent cross-border skirmishes. One Russian T-72 was disabled while crossing a river. The details are sketchy but it either sank, or broke down, the crew drowned etc.
The Chinese went apeshxt to try and capture it and they succeeded. The Russians demanded its return.
The Chinese did return it, but not before they brought this trophy to Shanghai for research and evaluation. And thus was born the first Chinese modern MBT, which, not surprisingly, looks like the T-72.
Also, remember the cruise missiles the Americans fired at the Chinese Embassy in Sarajevo (spelling?). Apparently one of them didn't explode and again went to the chinese for research and evaluation. So the PLA might have cruise missiles soon.
Abt the Tomahawk cruise missile,the Chinese bought a unexploded tomahawk from Pakistan who obtained it through Taliban when US take revenge for USS Cole by firing a couple of Tomahawk at Afganistan in 1998. At that time,US and Pakistan were still no allies! Chinese Embassy in Sarajevo was bombed by US PGM for Chinese keeping the debris of a down F-117/A after a split of 50/50 with the Russia. -
Another funny thing is that the T-64 is actually more capable than the T-72 according to many websites. The T-64 was made only for the Russian Army and was never exported. So, on other words, the T-72 is actually an export-version of the T-72.
But I'm sure the later improvements like the T-80 onwards must surely be better than the T-64. Any ideas, anyone? -
Away from the T series, the Russians also have this tank called the Black Eagle originally based on the T-80U. But it was so much redesigned it qualifies as a new tank. Apparently no production yet.
http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/MBT/b_eagle.html -
The new helmet used by those elite PLA troops like below marine unit is called QGF03Originally posted by tvdog:Dunno man, very likely to be just steel instead of kevlar. If I get any info I'll defintely post it here.
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US-style helmet and their cammo pattern is very western. Their number three is almost exactly the same as SAF. Bullpup rifle. No more stick grenades. And their next new tank will probably look like a Leopard 2.
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Based on the data released on China's internet source, the performance in many aspects is better than the US Kevlar PASGT Helmet. Like the V50 value of QGF03 is 630m/s, surpassing the 609 m/s of PASGT's.
As a matter of Fact, china produced body armour actually is exported hotly like their textile products, like the new Iraqi army is among their customers:
Chinese style body armour with brand new China made type 56-2 Rifles -
I think now the model is called T-90?Originally posted by tvdog:Away from the T series, the Russians also have this tank called the Black Eagle originally based on the T-80U. But it was so much redesigned it qualifies as a new tank. Apparently no production yet.
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Indian is the 1st overseas customer of Russian T-90, in face of the delay of their own "Arjun" MBT project.
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Perhaps the bombing wasn't an accident afterall...Originally posted by zenden9:Chinese Embassy in Sarajevo was bombed by US PGM for Chinese keeping the debris of a down F-117/A after a split of 50/50 with the Russia.
Now, I wonder if China is developing any stealth planes... -
US vs China....that will be a battle I'd like to see! Who will win? (let's imagine that both sides would not use nuclear weapons)
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Would you like to see everyone losing their jobs etc cos the world economy will kaput.Originally posted by Weirdo80:US vs China....that will be a battle I'd like to see! Who will win? (let's imagine that both sides would not use nuclear weapons) -
No, no...from a pure military perspective, without the horrors of war (i.e. on paper, who would win?)
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Depends on how you define victory.
If you determine victory as one in which , USA troops conquers all of China , then it's impossible.
But if you determine victory as one in which , USA ships and submarines sucessfully sinks all of the ships belonging to the the chinese navy and down all the aircrafts , then it might be possible. -
It's so hard to define who wins or who lose in all these modern "dirty wars".
Vietnam won the Vietnam War, but lost millions dead and the country is a still wreck.
Israel won all the wars against the Arabs but still has no peace.
Seems like the last time someone achieved CLEAR victory was Falklands War. -
"We won the battle but lost the war..."Originally posted by tvdog:It's so hard to define who wins or who lose in all these modern "dirty wars".
Vietnam won the Vietnam War, but lost millions dead and the country is a still wreck.
Israel won all the wars against the Arabs but still has no peace.
Seems like the last time someone achieved CLEAR victory was Falklands War.
MG -
Sino-US war broke out several times around East Asia in past 50 years, Hardly say who won the war. No matter it' s Korea War or Vietnam war.
There's a tradition Russian and China will co-ordinate in any event the US going to get his hand in the east Asia.
The up-coming Sino-Russian Joint execise on 18 Aug, 2005 involving both sides' strategy Forces like Su27SM/Tu-160/Tu-22M is such a signal.
Anyway, we should appreciate what we have, a peace world
1.8.2005
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Falklands war was a victory for the brits but the Agentine did not lose much either, because they fought on an island away from their own cities.Originally posted by tvdog:It's so hard to define who wins or who lose in all these modern "dirty wars".
Vietnam won the Vietnam War, but lost millions dead and the country is a still wreck.
Israel won all the wars against the Arabs but still has no peace.
Seems like the last time someone achieved CLEAR victory was Falklands War.
In WW2, the only winner was the USA, because no battles were fought on their land. For the rest, even the russians, a major winner of the war, had their land scorched during the war.
9/11 was so shocking to the american. The destruction was only equivalent to 3 direct hits by conventional bombs, not nuclear, one each on the twin towers and one on the pentagon, but the impact has proven to be far more devastating, because it was american cities kenna hit for the first time. It changed the american way of life.
If war becomes unavoidable, never fight it on your own land, fight it on your enemy's land. -
38>
Hey, I think today is the PLA's commemoration day, right?
August 1.
The chinese characters 8 & 1 are inscribed in the star.
Anyway, a strong PLA is the best assurance of peace. Without a strong PLA, many other countries will be out to cause trouble. -
In Falklands the Argentines surrendered officially, I think, all further claims to the Malvinas (Falklands). It also caused the president of Argentina to be toppled. The whole nation suffered humiliation and defeat. In terms of material damage andd casualty figures, Argentine losses were still much higher. Its air force was defeated by RAF carrier borne Harriers, its navy was soundly beaten with the sinking of their flagship the Belgrano and sever loss of lives onboard. And then, the infantry troopers - mostly conscripts - often surrendered or fled in the face of British assaults.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Falklands war was a victory for the brits but the Agentine did not lose much either, because they fought on an island away from their own cities.
In WW2, the only winner was the USA, because no battles were fought on their land. For the rest, even the russians, a major winner of the war, had their land scorched during the war.
9/11 was so shocking to the american. The destruction was only equivalent to 3 direct hits by conventional bombs, not nuclear, one each on the twin towers and one on the pentagon, but the impact has proven to be far more devastating, because it was american cities kenna hit for the first time. It changed the american way of life.
If war becomes unavoidable, never fight it on your own land, fight it on your enemy's land.
I think you can safely say the Argentines lost the war BIGTIME.
WW2 did reach the shores on America - remember Pearl Harbour? Yes, America did win big as the war kick-started her stagnant economy to make her once more the industrial giant of the Western world.
In WW2 the Russians did win big. Destruction of Russian land and cities meant nothing as they are capable of rebuilding as quickly as you can destroy. The Russians won WW2 BIGTIME cause they swallowed up the whole of Eastern Europe after the war which they continued robbing and exploiting for more than 4 decades.
Britain was one of the winners who fared the worst among the WW2 victors. Britain was nearly broke after WW2, and she didn't make any new territorial gains either. In fact, the British Empire crumbled thanks to WW2. Being so weak, Britain eventually lost her hold on all her possessions of in Asia with the exception of HK.
And now with HK gone, Britain is a country once again, no longer an Empire. -
The T-72 is widely exported..... i don't think it is diff for the chinese to get a copy of it..... from what i heard, the chinese obtained some examples from Arab users and then reverse engineer....Originally posted by tvdog:One thing's for sure: it's still quite confusing which is which. A lot of people on other forums identitfy the Type 98G as the Type 99 like you did.
Anyway, it is no secret that both of them are copy of the Russian T-72. Chinese friends told me a very interesting but not very detailed story of how the Chinese captured a Russian T-72 intact.
Both countries have frequent cross-border skirmishes. One Russian T-72 was disabled while crossing a river. The details are sketchy but it either sank, or broke down, the crew drowned etc.
The Chinese went apeshxt to try and capture it and they succeeded. The Russians demanded its return.
The Chinese did return it, but not before they brought this trophy to Shanghai for research and evaluation. And thus was born the first Chinese modern MBT, which, not surprisingly, looks like the T-72.
Also, remember the cruise missiles the Americans fired at the Chinese Embassy in Sarajevo (spelling?). Apparently one of them didn't explode and again went to the chinese for research and evaluation. So the PLA might have cruise missiles soon.
their tanks really look like the T-72! -
I would say, the Chassis of the new-Gen Chinese MBT still got Russian influence. The engine and turret are more western style. The German “endorsed “ China to reverse engineering their Leopard MBT Diesel Engine, and widely believed gave assistance to the V-shaped front turret design of the Chinese ZTZ99 MBT.Originally posted by spencer99:The T-72 is widely exported..... i don't think it is diff for the chinese to get a copy of it..... from what i heard, the chinese obtained some examples from Arab users and then reverse engineer....
their tanks really look like the T-72!
Chinese Type99 MBT in action
The latest German Leopard IIA6 MBT -
Originally posted by 38�Ž:
Wah, except for the roadwheels this thing doesn't look "communist" at all...
I would say, the Chassis of the new-Gen Chinese MBT still got Russian influence. The engine and turret are more western style. The German “endorsed “ China to reverse engineering their Leopard MBT Diesel Engine, and widely believed gave assistance to the V-shaped front turret design of the Chinese ZTZ99 MBT.
[b]Chinese Type99 MBT in action
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zenden9, where did u get info about the chinese embassy bombed with regards to the downed F-117A?
Anyways, was playing Ghost Recon 2 on the Xbox. They featured quite a few Chinese weapons, eg, the Chinese bullpup u all were refering to.
In the game it was called the Type-95, i think according to guns.ru, its actually the QBZ-95. Their local version apparently uses a 5.8mm round, agains the 5.56 NATO. They claim it to be better... *shrugs*. I thot that rifle kicked ass in the game... felt like it had loads more punching power than the M-16 or M-8. -
In a "paper battle" between the armoured forces of the two powers, I'd say it's too close to call. Other factors such as infantry AT-teams and artillery can also easily sway the battle.
Thats also assuming that air and naval forces are not in the picture. -
Yet another type of camo pattern. This time looking like Malaysian. Probably denotes SpecOps.
Chocolate chips again...
Ghillie suited sniper
An entire Ghillie-suited commando section?
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Hey, u guys got more pics on the PLA. These guys are beginning to intrigue me.
Preferably can have some of their propaganda shots too.