Re: Bayonets ?
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I also had a bayonet and scabbard attached to my SBO- even though I was armed with the SAR-21 during outfield.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Looks like most people here are against the idea of the SAF not using the bayonet.Anyway,if my memory serves me well,that time when 6 SIR was holding an exercise to showcase their capabilities,I'm very sure that I saw the troopers having a bayonet and scabbard attached to their SBO.
And recently, I went back to HQ NCC at Amoy Quee camp, when signing in at the guard post,saw inside that there are M16s fixed with the bayonet.
Don't ask me why... no one seems to know. I can't attach it to my SAR-21, and when the fighting becomes hand-to-hand, I'm not sure whether I can reach for my bayonet in time and physically stab someone.
Even assuming that the bayonet could be drawn in time, the enemy soldier with a bayonet attached to his rifle would have the upper hand.... his reach would be length of his arm + rifle.... while my reach would only be the length of my arm.
In short, before I get the chance to lunge at him, his bayonet's already in my gut.
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Better learn some kungfu.
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Send our great EDB chairman across the minefield...see whether he whines..Originally posted by Gedanken:How else are the poor sods going to clear a minefield if they don't have bayonets?
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Send our great EDB chairman across the minefield...see whether he whines..
Why him, of all people? -
Maybe there is something in the works at DSTA to fix this problem?
Advanced Infantry Melee Combat Weapon.
I envision SAF recruits, after spending 3mths at BMTC, going to the Jedi Academy to train for an additional 3 mths to master the Force. There, they will learn to handle the lightsabre! -
Well,perhaps the bayonets are aero-dynamically sound enough to be thrown at the target.LOL! Or perhaps for use in torturin the enemy.
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Probably the best use of the bayonet in a film would be We Wer Soldiers,Once and Young starrin Mel Gibson. One instance of the VietMinh managing to stab the French Paratrooper officer in the gut and later a NVA bespectacled trying to stab Mel Gibson's character but got shot instead.And the last part being the part where Mel Gibson orders his men to fix bayonets in anticipation of makin their final attack against the NVA.
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Apparently, the bayonet charge never took place. It was just a Hollywood addition to add heroism.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Probably the best use of the bayonet in a film would be We Wer Soldiers,Once and Young starrin Mel Gibson. One instance of the VietMinh managing to stab the French Paratrooper officer in the gut and later a NVA bespectacled trying to stab Mel Gibson's character but got shot instead.And the last part being the part where Mel Gibson orders his men to fix bayonets in anticipation of makin their final attack against the NVA. -
So in terms of D&D, the bayonet is a weapon/charm that gives a +2 to indimidation checks?
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Hmmmz is that so? Read that in a book as well,but the part they fixed bayonets before the final attack.
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the worse part is they always tell you to secure the bayonet with a black string coming out of the scabbard through the loop at the bayonet handle (where the barrel will come out from), then secure to SBO. how to use it for close combat if you have to fumble for the thing?
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The SAF sadly, is not always right.Originally posted by tvdog:As far as I know, the SAR-21 and the SAF are "firsts" in abandoning the bayonet.
Why infantry still need bayonets?
If for some unfortunate reason your position is being overrun, it is a definite plus to have a bayonet when:
• you run out of ammo
• your weapon IA
• while you are changing mags an enemy with fixed bayonet jumps into your trench
Furthermore, the SAR-21 is a bullpup which means changing mag is slower than on a M-16. So when shxt-hit-the-fan and you are fighting for your life, a fixed bayonet could prove very useful in some situations.
A fixed bayonet is still the best way of using both firepower and "stabbing power" in one package. -
The only reason why you secure the Black String through the Bayonnet is because someone is afriad that you'll drop it during training.
When you turn Ops, you secure the Bayonnet differently using Black Rubber Bands and it can be drawn relatively easily. Anyways, that's what my unit practices.
Infantry will seldom attack without some prior indirect fire, Inf mostly used to Comb and Mop up. Thus, in such Situation, how will the bayonnet be employed? use Bayonnet to check if Enemy is really dead right? (not sure, than stab stab abit, confirm dead or not.)
Anyways, Soldiers nowadays are trained not to just go for the Final "Chargggeee! and Overrun Enemy. They are taughtt to Engage Accurately from afar, Moving Fwd only to maintain the initiative and get a better Field of Fire. (yah, now no more like last time, Overrun Trench than Umpire say "Trench Clear". )
That said, A Knife is always useful, but not necessarily have to be Bayonnet. Why? only Bayonnet can use to clear mine ah? My Mother's Skewing Knife also can you know.....
Get something like a Kabaar also good, Better to open durains, if have to prod for mines also can use. hahahaha -
why Japanese unload bullet before fit the bayonets?
This also talk about PLA and US army tactics in bayonets.Any one can give us a summary here since many guys interested in this topics. -
What u mentioned is true.Read this!!Its a real story. There are times where u cant just shoot and go.Originally posted by tvdog:As far as I know, the SAR-21 and the SAF are "firsts" in abandoning the bayonet.
Why infantry still need bayonets?
If for some unfortunate reason your position is being overrun, it is a definite plus to have a bayonet when:
• you run out of ammo
• your weapon IA
• while you are changing mags an enemy with fixed bayonet jumps into your trench
Furthermore, the SAR-21 is a bullpup which means changing mag is slower than on a M-16. So when shxt-hit-the-fan and you are fighting for your life, a fixed bayonet could prove very useful in some situations.
A fixed bayonet is still the best way of using both firepower and "stabbing power" in one package.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55098&highlight=rok+taekwondo
ROK in vietnam war mentioned the usefulness of unarmed combat:
First, the enemy suddenly overwhelmed our trenches and continuously piled up to the degree that we were unable to use rifles and bayonets as weapons. There were many instances in which we were pushing and pulling each other inside the trenches. At that time, Tae Kwon Do became the Korean MarinesÂ’ weapon and by hitting the enemy in his vital parts, we brought him under our control.
Second, it can be seen that the courage to be unafraid when facing your enemy was trained through Tae Kwon Do. Although we didnÂ’t have a path of retreat and had to stay in our position, the fortitude to fight bravely while exposed to the enemy led to victory at the Battle of Tra Binh Dong.
Retired MajGen Shin Won Bae, who later commanded the Blue Dragon unit (now the 2d ROK Marine Division) provided similar insights, noting:
Even though tactics call for fixing bayonets to rifles during close quarters to neutralize the enemy, our weapon at the time, the M–1 rifle, was not a weapon that could be wielded quickly. In urgent situations, the Marine in the front would fiercely strike the enemy’s face and vital parts using Tae Kwon Do, causing him to momentarily lose his will to fight. Then a second Marine would finish off the enemy with the rifle. Additionally, striking the enemy with an entrenching tool was highly effective in destroying the will to fight among the enemy’s lead elements. While Tae Kwon Do demonstrated its practical effectiveness on the battlefield, more importantly, martial arts training instilled the confidence to defeat the enemy in each Marine. I think this is the greater significance of Tae Kwon Do training. -
In otherwords, hand to hand combat is found to be more useful than Bayonet fighting. Of course u can't kill off someone immediately with hand to hand combat, but u can buy enough time for ur buddies to help u.
If u see fellow solder engaged in hand to hand combat, would you
A) Start taking bets,
B) Move to assist ur mate
C) Sit down and laugh
D) Whip out ur pom poms and start cheering?
I guess the only ones who would have the bayonets and will survive close combat would be the Storemen and drivers who still carry the good ol M-16s. -
Baynonet is a must! I guess some one have to tell DSTA to fix it back on the SAR. Its really retarded. I dont want to clear a room or charge a stronghold with expected close quarter battle without a bayonnet. Like what some said, IA or too close how? sheesh.
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Yeah, someone should shove that LAD up DSTA's arse and give us back our bayonets.
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I told u we are gonna recieve lightsabers already... why u all still want bayonets?
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Pictured here are the SA-80 and its bayonet. No bayonet lug either.
Instead, the hollow handle of the bayonet fits over the muzzle. This handle has a hole near the handguard for the bullet to pass through when firing with fixed bayonet. There's some kind of clamp that latches onto the raised ring behind the muzzle.
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Maybe someone can design a similar bayonet that clamps/locks around the SAR-21 muzzle.
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Again, I emphasize that all modern bayonets are knife/wire cutter combos. Forget about the WW2 style M-16 bayonet. Even the XM8 will have a new bayonet/wire-cutter combo, manufactured by Camillus.
The US had been using this for their M-16 bayonets since the 1980's. So to those who say they want a knife instead of a bayonet. Well, the answer has been there all along for the past 20 years. Just that for some reason SAF has decided not to implement this improved bayonet. This improved M-16 bayonet can cut wire, but I don't know if they mean barbed wire or comms/electric wire...
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I don't know if this works, but someone has designed this jagged-edged muzzle for the M-16 that can be used like a bayonet to stab someone. -
Ah, that reminds me of this surefire torch that my friend has. She can stab that torchlight at someone and it'll hurt like crap. Thats a good idea there! Why stick to bayonets when we can come up with something new?
Btw, the one that the SA-80 uses... if u fix the bayonet over the muzzle.. how to shoot? -
The handle is hollow so the bullet can pass through. I'll try to find a pic.Originally posted by Shotgun:Ah, that reminds me of this surefire torch that my friend has. She can stab that torchlight at someone and it'll hurt like crap. Thats a good idea there! Why stick to bayonets when we can come up with something new?
Btw, the one that the SA-80 uses... if u fix the bayonet over the muzzle.. how to shoot? -
Course cadre member Staff Sgt. Michael Commander, who has been deployed to Iraq, said the training Soldiers receive on the course is invaluable.
read Bayonet: still used, still important
“If you run out of ammo in a combat environment, you’ve got to use hand-to-hand combat,” Commander said. “That’s where the bayonet comes in.”
CommanderÂ’s field-artillery unit was issued bayonets before deploying.
Pvt. Jose Hernandez, 25, snarls as he plunges his bayonet into the target on the practice range during recent basic combat training at Fort Jackson, S.C. -
I think one should not underestimate the moral-boosting effect when told to "fix bayonets".
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Personally i felt that it is an extremely unwise move to have a weapon, in this case the SAR-21 not to be able to fix bayonets. The advantages of having a bayonet have been discussed many times before in this thread. So there is little reason why we should be abandoning it. In fact, bayonet fighting lessons are a favourite part of my BMT. We really felt like warriors then, kind of a morale boosting effect.
