M551 Sheridan Light Tanks in SAF service?
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yes.... "Line in the sand"... deployed together with 82nd Airborne....RDF force.....Originally posted by cleong:The M551 Sheridan was used in the 1990 Gulf War. I've no idea if it was used in the actual ground war, but it was one of the first to be deployed to Saudi Arabia because it was the only tank in the US inventory light enough to be delivered by air-drop, as an initial response holding force. -
1560 M551 Sheridans (excluding prototypes and pre-production) were ultimately produced for the US Armed Forces. This is a comparatively small number compared to the numerous Soviet air-portable BMD-1 and BMD-2 IFVs which were produced in the thousands.
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If you all did a search on the armoured combat engineers vehicles, I'm sure you'll find the missing M60s there.
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We bought 8 M60 CEV and 8 M60AVLB in the early 70s, later another 4 AVLB , so total is 20 vehicles.Originally posted by ditzy:If you all did a search on the armoured combat engineers vehicles, I'm sure you'll find the missing M60s there. -
I think this information is only partly correct and quite misleading.Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Together with the pictures shown the website seem to imply that we have M60A3 MBTs.
But...
The only M60A3 vehicles we operate are AVLB - Armoured Vehicle Launched Bridge, and the CEV - Combat Engineer Vehicle.
The AVLB is armed only with machineguns.
The CEV has front-mounted dozer balde and a very short stubby canon - probably 105mm - for demolition of walls and other obstacles etc. Not for anti-tank role.
These 2 versions probably make up the number 30 - probably 15 each, which is a fair figure. Is it possible that among this there are MBT versions? The answer is no.
The existence of these 2 types of M60A3 variants are well-known facts, not rumours, speculations, etc.
When I first saw these 2 vehicles in SAF use I speculated that maybe we have the MBT variants as well. But armour friends confirm the answer is "no".
The Tempest, definitely yes.
In fact, one guy I knew whom was tankee in the late 70's. He was sent to Israel for training on the Tempest. Only he referred to it as the Centurion.
One training involve them sitting inside a tank while another tank fires a dud round at them. This was just to give them an experience of what a "hit" on their vehicle would feel like. Though it was only a dud round, they all came out reeling from the concussion and some threw up. -
All due respect, could it be mid 80's? That's when I first saw them.Originally posted by gary1910:We bought 8 M60 CEV and 8 M60AVLB in the early 70s, later another 4 AVLB , so total is 20 vehicles. -
CEV has a 165mm demolition gun. Great for clearing work and maybe FIBUA.
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Should be early 1980s'.Originally posted by gary1910:We bought 8 M60 CEV and 8 M60AVLB in the early 70s, later another 4 AVLB , so total is 20 vehicles. -
Nope, trust me I know and they are not based on A3 model but A1 model.Originally posted by bcoy:Should be early 1980s'. -
Anyway, if we do have new MBT, it will only come from Israel becos I believe she is the only country we could get MBT w/o anyone( Janes etc) knowing about it.
So what could Israel offer us?
Currently I think only the Sabra and the Merkava (we already have the Centurions, the rest are even older, so no point), so take your pick!!!!
The Merkava is way too heavy for our terrain, Sabra to me is good option, with 120mm gun, added composite armour or even ERA, world class Knight FCS with auto-tracking, LWR, and possible BMS and even LAHAT missile , it will better any tank in SEA.
The protection might not be as good as top MBTs like M1, Leo2 etc but if we add in Trophy APS , it will improve the protection level against ATGM and rockets.
Sabra is cheap and good, that is usually what Mindef look for. -
Any tank that when run over Evelyn knoll and and does not turn it into murai patch is definitely a good tank in mindef context.
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Anyone has an idea of what a dud round looks like and how come they never show the Tempests on national day parade?
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The M728s are documented, seperately from the M60A3s.But Gary1910 makes a good point..however with the display of the PT-91M..we could see some revelations soon?I hope it's something substantial.
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Possible... Remember how long it took for them to reveal that our Fokker50 actually carries harpoon? But I believe by the time Mindef reveals it, something else more secretive would be hidden...Originally posted by LazerLordz:.But Gary1910 makes a good point..however with the display of the PT-91M..we could see some revelations soon?I hope it's something substantial. -
hahaha... how true.Originally posted by ah_kwang:Possible... Remember how long it took for them to reveal that our Fokker50 actually carries harpoon? But I believe by the time Mindef reveals it, something else more secretive would be hidden...
One day they reveal the Sentosa cable cars are all armed with Sidewinders. -
It will really be great if we can parade our Tempests during the next NDP since the Malaysians have done so already. Another reason is that our possession of Tempests is already an old open secret so there really shouldn't be much of a problem. Imagine a whole platoon of Tempests rolling pass the parade square! Will certainly instill a great sense of pride to all Singaporeans. However, we should definitely keep our newer MBT under wraps for now!
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wha got new MBT ah??? maybe looks like Red Alert 2's apocalypse.....or maybe it's even called the apocalypse...Originally posted by tankee1981:It will really be great if we can parade our Tempests during the next NDP since the Malaysians have done so already. Another reason is that our possession of Tempests is already an old open secret so there really shouldn't be much of a problem. Imagine a whole platoon of Tempests rolling pass the parade square! Will certainly instill a great sense of pride to all Singaporeans. However, we should definitely keep our newer MBT under wraps for now! -
I think M60A3 is too heavy for our roads and swampy area...Even the PT-91M is lighter than M60A3 with even better mobility.Basically Sheridan is another failure with the 152mm gun recoil too strong for a small tank like Sheridan to handle.It's 152mm gun is basically only fit for firing TOW 2 ATGM.It is no wonder US army scrapped this useless tank and substitute M2 series IFV...
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Like I said. We already operate some top secret armored vehicles that can crush MBTs for the puny cockroaches that they are. What for parade the tempest?
Our mechs are STATE of the art, 30ft vehicles, armed to the teeth with particle pulse cannons. If that fails, the auto cannons will finish up at close range. -
yeah rite...Originally posted by Shotgun:Like I said. We already operate some top secret armored vehicles that can crush MBTs for the puny cockroaches that they are. What for parade the tempest?
Our mechs are STATE of the art, 30ft vehicles, armed to the teeth with particle pulse cannons. If that fails, the auto cannons will finish up at close range. -
Actually the supposed replacement for the M551 Sheridan Light Tank is the M8 Thunderbolt. However, these are not bought which resulted in the US airborne units without any airborne capable armoured vehicles since the retirement of the Sheridan. Incidently, the M8 is considered to be suitable for the replacement of our SM1. Please take a look at the thread 'Progress on SM1 replacement'
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That's why we use LT as main fire support weapons in mechanised forces, MY I think it is abt 80% forested, heavy MBT is simply not mobile enough.That's why they bought a large of flatbed to transport them.Originally posted by zenden9:I think M60A3 is too heavy for our roads and swampy area...Even the PT-91M is lighter than M60A3 with even better mobility.Basically Sheridan is another failure with the 152mm gun recoil too strong for a small tank like Sheridan to handle.It's 152mm gun is basically only fit for firing TOW 2 ATGM.It is no wonder US army scrapped this useless tank and substitute M2 series IFV...
For anti-MBT , we have plenty of 3rd Gen F&F Spike ATGM afterall we manufactured them ourselves.
If you look at the terrain of SEA and the orbat of practically all SEA nations, all of them have a large number of LTs except MY.
For example Thailand has abt 460 LTs, Indonesia abt 375 LTs, Ph abt 41 LTs, even the small army of Brunei has 16 LTs.
Thailand for example could get cheap MBTs from US, but still buy brand new LTs, becos Thai army believe that LTs is much more suitable in such terrain than MBTs. -
Here some pixs of Stingray MkI
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Someone quoted figures of a couple of hundreds or MBT for Thailand. They include the M60 series, the M48 series, and some Chinese MBTs. I don't really buy this "SEA not suitable for MBT argument" but that discussion probably belongs on another thread.Originally posted by gary1910:Thailand for example could get cheap MBTs from US, but still buy brand new LTs, becos Thai army believe that LTs is much more suitable in such terrain than MBTs.