BREAKING NEWS! F-15T WON!
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To be honest, i have full confidence that our vipers can take on the Su-30MKM base on the fact that we have an edge in the quality of man and the quality of equipment (not just the plane but including the C4ISR brought together by our various assets). Let the F-15T munch on something else please.
If u believe that the IAF trashed our pilots based on what their nationalistic newspapers had reported, i bet u are going to like talkingcock.com. -
Indian Air Force?
Tell them to beat someone their size b4 they gloat over it. -
Since the decision is now made and, let's hope the F-15T will be like the B-52. Still top of the game even 50 years after first entering service.
Flight International suggests Singapore's purchase will include many advanced weapons, so that could be the clincher.
http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2005/08/30/Navigation/190/201234/Singapore+closes+in+on+next-generation+fighter+.html -
India or Israel.......if India i dun noe but if israel their AF is quite capable of trashing our pilots....Originally posted by foxtrout8:To be honest, i have full confidence that our vipers can take on the Su-30MKM base on the fact that we have an edge in the quality of man and the quality of equipment (not just the plane but including the C4ISR brought together by our various assets). Let the F-15T munch on something else please.
If u believe that the IAF trashed our pilots based on what their nationalistic newspapers had reported, i bet u are going to like talkingcock.com. -
agreedOriginally posted by foxtrout8:To be honest, i have full confidence that our vipers can take on the Su-30MKM base on the fact that we have an edge in the quality of man and the quality of equipment (not just the plane but including the C4ISR brought together by our various assets). Let the F-15T munch on something else please.
If u believe that the IAF trashed our pilots based on what their nationalistic newspapers had reported, i bet u are going to like talkingcock.com.
imo the vipers can take on the 30MKMs with little problem. i believe the flanker/adder combo can be beaten by the viper/slammer combo. Given that the AA-12 does have greater range/maneuverability than the AIM-120, future versions we will probably acquire eg. AIM-120C-7, with extended range/maneuverability, and even the current version we use, have better ECCM compared to the AA-12. coupled with our superior C4ISR network and electronic warfare capabilities, ensure that if our vipers get the shot off (and they probably will with the help of awacs), the flanker is as good as dead. -
oh, and if it comes down to knife fighting, our flyboys would have a vast advantage, with HMCS + Python 4, maybe 5, or the AIM-9X (included with the F-15T) high off-boresight missiles, would negate any maneuvering advantage their thrust-vectoring Su-30s have
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Acutally I am just disappointed as everyone as I wont get to see the canard figher that I want .. I was at 2004 Aerospace saw the Rafale in flight really a sight to behold
But somehow I believe RSAF has made the right choice...
Buying a French or Russian aircraft can be logistic nightmare for us..
Example
F15 if like a Toyota Camry boring but trusty
Rafael is like a Peugeot 605, it gives you the best ride in town but is going to spend more time in the workshop than on the road.
If you are SAF planner which one will you chose... our pilot/crew/ DTO need to be send more training dun think many of us speak french ... and whether Rafale can integrate with the rest of our craft and aresenal remains to be seen
I seriously IAF SU30/35 thrashed USAF F15 or our Viper ...they just talk big ba or they lose deliberately to the host Indian
In term aeronautics design the SU probably beat the americans but in term of avoinices American would have the upper hand -
provided F15 can stay airborne long enough to launch those at SU30. i wondered why JAS39 Gripen was not taken since it is cheaper and can take off at shorter runway?Originally posted by huaichien:Since the decision is now made and, let's hope the F-15T will be like the B-52. Still top of the game even 50 years after first entering service.
Flight International suggests Singapore's purchase will include many advanced weapons, so that could be the clincher.
http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2005/08/30/Navigation/190/201234/Singapore+closes+in+on+next-generation+fighter+.html
http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen/
anyone can enlighten? -
if i'm not wrong, the AN/APG-63(V)3 AESA on the F-15Ts are more capable than the N-011 BARS phased array radars on the Su-30s, correct me if i'm mistaken.Originally posted by superworm99:provided F15 can stay airborne long enough to launch those at SU30. i wondered why JAS39 Gripen was not taken since it is cheaper and can take off at shorter runway?
http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen/
anyone can enlighten?
even if i am, our AWACS and datalinks should give us an upper hand in BVR combat with the Su-30s -
Im already crying that the F-15T won. If it is the gripen...., i rather die.Originally posted by superworm99:provided F15 can stay airborne long enough to launch those at SU30. i wondered why JAS39 Gripen was not taken since it is cheaper and can take off at shorter runway?
http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/gripen/
anyone can enlighten? -
that the AA-12 does have greater range/maneuverability than the AIM-120, future versions we will probably acquire eg. AIM-120C-7, with extended range/maneuverability, and even the current version we use, have better ECCM compared to the AA-12. coupled with our superior C4ISR network and electronic warfare capabilities, ensure that if our vipers get the shot off (and they probably will with the help of awacs), the flanker is as good as dead.
To add on, dwightlooi from WAFF gave a very brief but informative analysis on the Adder versus Slammer issue. I try to fish it out. -
F-15 T will die if it's engaged in a dog-fight with SU-30.
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nope. reference to my posts above.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:F-15 T will die if it's engaged in a dog-fight with SU-30. -
The Gripen is the modern day version of the F-5, simple, cheap and cheerful fighter for the budget conscious.
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Let's hope our F-15 T is
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http://www.alert5.com/2005/09/singapore-says-in-final-negotiations.html
Robert Karniol, Asia-Pacfic editor of Jane's Defence Weekly, said he is 'a bit surprised' by Singapore's selection of the F-15.
'I don't see the F-15 twenty years from now being particularly effective in that environment,' he said.
Karniol added that the selection process will be two phases and this decision is part one. Singapore will either buy some more F-15s in phase two or another type of aircraft. He believes Singapore would go for another aircraft in phase two.
He said the Rafale would have had 'longer legs' as the new-generation aircraft for Singapore. -
The existence of full sphere advanced WVR missile brings fighter planes to near technical equility in dogfights striking off previous advantages such as thrust vectoring and other aeronautical features to improve agility. Unless the agility of the opponent's plane can out fight the agility of a incoming missiles salved by the twist of the neck, there is little real advantage.
The key to airpower today is how far and how fast u can lick ur enemy and that is definately more than the AESA or the BARS. Look at the latest war from Kosovo show down to the Iraqi threater and u see that air power is more than just 'my is longer than yours'. -
well currently the AA-12 has the farther 'lick' compared to our AIM-120s if both sides have awacs and use them effectively, which we must not assume our neighbours would not acquire in near future..can you find the Adder vs. Slammer artivle?Originally posted by foxtrout8:The existence of full sphere advanced WVR missile brings fighter planes to near technical equility in dogfights striking off previous advantages such as thrust vectoring and other aeronautical features to improve agility. Unless the agility of the opponent's plane can out fight the agility of a incoming missiles salved by the twist of the neck, there is little real advantage.
The key to airpower today is how far and how fast u can lick ur enemy and that is definately more than the AESA or the BARS. Look at the latest war from Kosovo show down to the Iraqi threater and u see that air power is more than just 'my is longer than yours'. -
Originally posted by sgFish:
cheers, thats very true but u already said 'IF'...and fortunately since birth, we have the gift of creating gaps.
well currently the AA-12 has the farther 'lick' compared to our AIM-120s [b]if both sides have awacs and use them effectively, which we must not assume our neighbours would not acquire in near future..can you find the Adder vs. Slammer artivle?[/b] -
Quoted from dwightlooi, taken from WAFF:
Do can believe the Russian's claim on the range of the R-77 if you want and you can believe that the AIM-120 is a 48km missile. But the truth is probably that the R-77 won't hit anything at 120km and the AIM-120C will kill something way beyond 48km. Why do I say that? Because the US leads the world in solid propellant technology. American solid motors have the highest specific impulse -- this is true in both military and space applications. Basically, there are two ways to get better kinetic range in a missile. You can make the motor more energetic or you can make the airframe, warhead and guidance lighter. The US already leads the field in solid motor performance -- detailed explanation on this issue is another topic for another time -- so that leaves lightening and payload reduction. It is possible to reduce the warhead, guidance package size/mass fraction in relation to the missile's propellant fraction. This will yield a notable increase in range. This is what is done on the AIM-120C7 -- the electronics are shrunk, the warhead is moved forward and the length of the rocket motor extended. However, nothing about the R-77 suggests this. In fact even the pre-C7 AIM-120C5 has a higher motor volume fraction than the R-77 and I won't bet on russian electronics being featherlight despite the volume they take up.
So why is it that the Russians can claim that the R-77 as a 150km missile? Are they lying? Probably not! You there is no such thing as "a" maximum range for AAMs. The range a missile is effective depends on the launch profile and the target profile. Ballistically, both the R-77 and the AIM-120 will fly out to more than 200km if they are launched at a high altitude. However neither missile will hit anything but a Zepplin at the range. The effective envelope for a missile can range from less than 20km to more than 100km depending on how you shoot it and against what. Flying at Mach 2 against another Mach 2 aircraft coming ahead on at a lower altitude gives your missile a lot of range. You can probably launch in excess of 150km and you will likely kill your enemy he he doesn't break and turn tail immediately. If you are just coming out of a tight turn near sea level and you are shooting at a Mach 2 aircraft flying away from you at high altitude, chances are your missile won't catch him if he is more than 15 km away! There can be a factor of ten difference effective range for an medium range AAM depending on the tectical scenario. So, yes, the Russians probably are not lying when they say that the maximum range of the R-77 is over 150km -- because the missile should be able to kill something flying in some kind of scenario. But, you can say the same about the AIM-120C! Hence, official range claims are quite meaningless and highly misleading.
The AIM-120C has a very impressive, proven combat record. In fact, nothing has thus far proven effective in jamming it. When launched within its proper envelope it almost always hits. -
Im kind of dissapointed because they can basically use their F-15A airframe , which they have decomissioned recently , and put the F-15T inside.
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It's been interesting following all the discussions on this topic but I seriously think that alot of people are missing the point here.
The Typhoon and Rafale are without doubt the sexier and newer airframes. In an Air Superiority role I have no doubt they will kick ass and clean up the F-15C/D/E/T.
BUT if the RSAF's requirement is for an air superiority fighter then why is the strike variant, the F-15E/T in the tender and not the F-15C/D fighter variant?
I would guess that the RSAF's requirements (which none of us are privy to) is for a strike aircraft and in that the F-15 is the best candidate ... longer legs and heavier payload? -
Brother, the Rafale has a 20 year old airframe but does it make a difference?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Im kind of dissapointed because they can basically use their F-15A airframe , which they have decomissioned recently , and put the F-15T inside. -
of course lah, if 1939 fight world war II , then give you world war 1Originally posted by foxtrout8:Brother, the Rafale has a 20 year old airframe but does it make a difference?
1919 biplane to fight against the germans of course as a pilot you would protest.
of course, you would ask for a Spitfire.