BREAKING NEWS! F-15T WON!
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It is obvious that the airframe is designed to meet the challenges of enemy fighter jets for the 80's - 90's
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yes... we did get the E/T strike version... and most of the weapon packages are SOW for ATG attacks...
the RSAF never claim that they are looking for a air superiority fighter....
the only thing we knew was that RSAF was looking for a POWERFUL TWIN ENGINE airrcaft.... seems to indicate every bit that they were merely looking for a strike platform.
if so... that would explain why EF2000... which is hopeless in ATG was gone well before the finals... and why the RAFALE was out because of its limited weapon load and variety as well as commonality with ATG weapons already with RSAF.
now... on hindsight... i recall... BOEING officials said something which have been spinning all the while in my head...
he said something like... the F-15T can take off with a RAFALE or a EF2000 slung beneath it!!!... -
I'm sorry but can you provide a source that states the the MIG29s and SU27s in the region will not be armed with AA-11/R-73 with HMCS/high off-boresight acquisition capabilities.Originally posted by sgFish:oh, and if it comes down to knife fighting, our flyboys would have a vast advantage, with HMCS + Python 4, maybe 5, or the AIM-9X (included with the F-15T) high off-boresight missiles, would negate any maneuvering advantage their thrust-vectoring Su-30s have
I think you'll find this interesting reading (http://www.sci.fi/~fta/python4.html)
From what I understand, the MIGs and SUs are better dog-fighting airframes than the Vipers. But there are other elements at play ... no? If only waging war was as simple as playing a game of "Trumps" - my fighter better than your fighter = I win! You go home sleep!.
[edited to include 2nd para) -
Heh heh, just as I say, we will get the F-15T.
Don't mind shade some more secret from my spy network.
1) Sad but true, SAF run out of $$$ because garment not enough money, so no money means no shiny EURO90mil 4G/5G aircraft, we can only get the USD30mil a piece F-15. The USD1billion is not a one time off payment but a annual forcast USD200mil new aircraft procurement budget for the next 5 years.
2) The F-15T though 3G design of the 70's, but come with 4G/5G electronics suite, so as long as you see you enemy first, first the hightech missile and then ran away is the new rule of thumb. Anyway dude, "Top Gun" style dogfight doesn't exist in 99.99% in the 21 century real world air combat conflict.
3) Logistics, reliable spares and availability of Isreal technology transfer is the the other factors that seal the fate of the deal. -
F-15 is so big , where are you going to store it in singapore?Originally posted by tripwire:yes... we did get the E/T strike version... and most of the weapon packages are SOW for ATG attacks...
the RSAF never claim that they are looking for a air superiority fighter....
the only thing we knew was that RSAF was looking for a POWERFUL TWIN ENGINE airrcaft.... seems to indicate every bit that they were merely looking for a strike platform.
if so... that would explain why EF2000... which is hopeless in ATG was gone well before the finals... and why the RAFALE was out because of its limited weapon load and variety as well as commonality with ATG weapons already with RSAF.
now... on hindsight... i recall... BOEING officials said something which have been spinning all the while in my head...
he said something like... the F-15T can take off with a RAFALE or a EF2000 slung beneath it!!!... -
air to air now is less dependent on the airframe, but the weapon and its supporting electronics (radar, awacs, elint, c4isr, etc.), as stated by foxtrout8 earlier. hence the F-15T would hold equally to the typhoon and rafale in air to air combat.Originally posted by kotay:It's been interesting following all the discussions on this topic but I seriously think that alot of people are missing the point here.
The Typhoon and Rafale are without doubt the sexier and newer airframes. In an Air Superiority role I have no doubt they will kick ass and clean up the F-15C/D/E/T.
BUT if the RSAF's requirement is for an air superiority fighter then why is the strike variant, the F-15E/T in the tender and not the F-15C/D fighter variant?
I would guess that the RSAF's requirements (which none of us are privy to) is for a strike aircraft and in that the F-15 is the best candidate ... longer legs and heavier payload? -
Temasek just invested $10 billion dollar USD which is 10 TIMES the amount for NGF into Chinese banks.Originally posted by bigballs11:Heh heh, just as I say, we will get the F-15T.
Don't mind shade some more secret from my spy network.
1) Sad but true, SAF run out of $$$ because garment not enough money, so no money means no shiny EURO90mil 4G/5G aircraft, we can only get the USD30mil a piece F-15. The USD1billion is not a one time off payment but a annual forcast USD200mil new aircraft procurement budget for the next 5 years.
2) The F-15T though 3G design of the 70's, but come with 4G/5G electronics suite, so as long as you see you enemy first, first the hightech missile and then ran away is the new rule of thumb. Anyway dude, "Top Gun" style dogfight doesn't exist in 99.99% in the 21 century real world air combat conflict.
3) Logistics, reliable spares and availability of Isreal technology transfer is the the other factors that seal the fate of the deal.
No Money?
Money should be their last excuse. -
uh...like almost anywhere an F-16 can fit?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:F-15 is so big , where are you going to store it in singapore?
its not like the F-15 is an aircraft carrier right -
nope i'm afraid i can't. however even so, then we'll be on par, and it would come down either to a contest of attrition or BVR capabilities (as a whole)Originally posted by kotay:I'm sorry but can you provide a source that states the the MIG29s and SU27s in the region will not be armed with AA-11/R-73 with HMCS/high off-boresight acquisition capabilities. -
Singapore always wants to maintain a technological edge over it's neighbours.
I don't see how F-15T is going to be 1 step ahead of SU-30. -
Wrong, it is the avionics not the airframe that we should be talking about. The Rafale that a number of you guys including me whom support is based on a 80s airframe but what gives us the adrenalin rush is it's 5th generation avionics.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:It is obvious that the airframe is designed to meet the challenges of enemy fighter jets for the 80's - 90's -
we'll have a more potent A2G force than anyone in the region (save the ozzies and their aardvarks), and air to air, i think enough has been mentioned.Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Singapore always wants to maintain a technological edge over it's neighbours.
I don't see how F-15T is going to be 1 step ahead of SU-30. -
is the F-15 bigger then singapore?Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:F-15 is so big , where are you going to store it in singapore?
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Originally posted by tripwire:is the F-15 bigger then singapore?
Hope our government don't let the "potential political benefits" get into their original agenda of defending the country. -
malaysia SU-30MKM got vector thrust engine meh?? dont anyhow bull lah... only indian MKI will have the vector thrust engine...
not to digress too far... but i heard... malaysia MKM looks more like MK since it also wont have canards... -
If i would say, the three aircrafts which we set out in the first place aren't even good enough to start out with , anyone agree?
Eurofighter program not even fully completed , lots of promises , failure to deliver.
Rafale also have lots of promises , to share source code and to build it together..
F-15 itself also is already a museum aircraft. -
ahaha. if they don't even better for us thenOriginally posted by tripwire:malaysia SU-30MKM got vector thrust engine meh?? dont anyhow bull lah... only indian MKI will have the vector thrust engine...
not to digress too far... but i heard... malaysia MKM looks more like MK since it also wont have canards... -
no lah... they purposely buy F-15T to make the malaysian govt suffer... next time come tension... they dont dare anyhow shoot...Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:
Hope our government don't let the "potential political benefits" get into their original agenda of defending the country.
scally... they shoot... one F-15 crash... then american president call up and f**k them for trying to be stupid.
even with satellite... it would be sure hell difficult to tell if the F-15 at the RSAF AFB belong to americans or belong to RSAF... got astros... also dont dare to use... -
Im just lamenting , these aircrafts , when i was born , already existed , thought i would really see a next generation fighter , what bs.
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My sources may not be accurate on the part on TVC but they are positive abt it, can u help me provide a link to indicate the absence of TVC on the MKM.Originally posted by tripwire:malaysia SU-30MKM got vector thrust engine meh?? dont anyhow bull lah... only indian MKI will have the vector thrust engine...
not to digress too far... but i heard... malaysia MKM looks more like MK since it also wont have canards... -
you want to see NGF, go to asian aerospace 2006... sure have one...Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:Im just lamenting , these aircrafts , when i was born , already existed , thought i would really see a next generation fighter , what bs.
but RSAF needs planes that can fit the missions it requires.... and somehow... it appears that they are looking for deep penetrators.... with loads of bombs...
kinda like the SBS double decker... same number of pilot... but can lugs alot more explosives... -
What makes you think that SG doesn't have any biochemical weapons?Originally posted by tripwire:you want to see NGF, go to asian aerospace 2006... sure have one...
but RSAF needs planes that can fit the missions it requires.... and somehow... it appears that they are looking for deep penetrators.... with loads of bombs...
kinda like the SBS double decker... same number of pilot... but can lugs alot more explosives...
we don't need SBS double decker buses which lugs explosives..and bombs..
We got Biopolis , and countless amount of research scientists from russia...
1 bomb can't kill many . -
Re: RMAF Su-30MKM ? February 1 2004, 8:24 PMOriginally posted by foxtrout8:My sources may not be accurate on the part on TVC but they are positive abt it, can u help me provide a link to indicate the absence of TVC on the MKM.
Okay The Similarities are these.
Both House the BARS Radar Which has the Mini Awac Capability. But the Similarities End here.
The Indian MKIs have Israeli ECM and EW Avionics And 3d TVC Which the MKM lack. the MKM as of now probably come with all Russian Avionics .
Hence While haveing the same Radar as the MKI it still ends up well short of the MKI.
note that the MKI is a enhanced Hybrid of the Su-35 and Su-37. the Russians Call it an 'Air Dominance Fighter.'
Another Distinct Mark of the MKI is its Enhanced A2G capability . ( not sure about that of the MKM)
Also Lastly the MKI is an evolutionary AC.That means Each Production Batch will be an upgrade of the Previous batch . India is buying 190 MKIs they are being built in Batches of 10. With nearly 2 batches planned to be produced Each year. Last batch in 2014. Hence the Batch of 2014 is going to be Vastly Different from that of 2004 .
However the MKM apart from MLUs will not undergo this evolutionary process.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=242808&messageid=1075568922&lp=1082900265 -
I dun think there is any official statement about it.
MALAYSIA: A mid-2003 $RM5.4 billion ($1.42 billion) RMAF contract for 18 advanced two-seat multi-role Sukhoi Su-30MKMs is now known to include funding of 120 million ($143.56 million) for advanced digital mission
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?s=d56300b0f6c4fb7fd80c3e7665ad7b83&t=30304
systems avionics from France's Thales group. The RMAF's Su-30MKMs will be similar to India's Su-30MKIs now arriving from Russia's Irkut group, with canards, thrust-vectored Lyulka AL-31FP turbofans and NIIP N-011M Bars radar. RMAF westernized mission systems avionics from Thales and SAGEM, however, will exclude Israeli Su-30MKI components in Su-30MKM and weapons package deliveries, due from 2006.
The RMAF will oversee integration of the aircraft and systems in Russia, which will be completed in partnership between Sukhoi and Thales. Equipped with modern European avionics, these aircraft will enhance the RMAF's already substantial combat aircraft fleet, from delivery by 2007 to 2008, while strengthening Thales' links with its Malaysian industrial partners. Thales claims that its systems will boost the capacity and operational performances of the SU 30MKMs, notably in the domains of avionics, navigation, identification and optronics, and enhance their capabilities for both day and night combat -
http://www.deagel.com/pandora/?p=pm00289004
In addition, Malaysia ordered 18 Su-30MKs, Su-30MKM designation, equipped with western avionics to be delivered by 2008 and Indonesia ordered two Su-30MKs.
now... i really really wonder... how much trust can we place on these sources?? one minute its MKI derivitive... next minute its a simple MK redesignated as MKM... are we seeing a replay of the MIG-29A that becomes MIG-29N?