BREAKING NEWS! F-15T WON!
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Don't forget the purpose of the new fighter. It is a replacement for the A4SU, which is a strike platform, not an air-superiority platform. The F-15T has the largest bomb load, the longest range and excellent avionics at a very good price. The package also includes numerous PGMs to complement the strike role.
The F-16s are our air superiority platform, and are planned to be replaced by the F-35 when it becomes available. We are third in line to get the JSF, after the US and UK.
People comparing the F-15T to the SU-30 or other air superiority platforms should be knocked on the head. This is not a contest to see who has the sexiest plane in SEA. This is a contest to replace 70+ A4SU. It had to be cheap, and with a big bomb load if we are going to replace the mud moving power of those 70 planes. The long range, speed and avionics are just icing on the cake. -
I don't know why people keep saying they are disappointed by singapore getting 3g and not 4g ?
Our F-15T is new generation type with new radar and all the advance weapon . It have better radar, range, weapon load, speed ..... just because it is developed from older model ? Why not when looking at it so what if it is call 3g by people, but it sure out perform whatever 4g planes in the market. -
hmm.. I also start to agree that maybe the F15T might be a good choice....Originally posted by storywolf:I don't know why people keep saying they are disappointed by singapore getting 3g and not 4g ?
Our F-15T is new generation type with new radar and all the advance weapon . It have better radar, range, weapon load, speed ..... just because it is developed from older model ? Why not when looking at it so what if it is call 3g by people, but it sure out perform whatever 4g planes in the market.
One must not forget that Sgp is a small nation. and our defence budget is limited.
remember the time we use to operate second hand jets like Hunters and Skyhawks.... I think right now with the F16 Blk 52+ and the F15T, we are an "advanced" airforce.
No point keeping up with the Jones..... I think "cost" is probably a strong consideration.... plus the AESA radar upgrade. -
Aiya simple math cannot count mehOriginally posted by wkl:I thought F16E/F which UAE purchased : US$50 million. F15K Koera bought : US$80 to 90 million. Are you sure we got the F15T for only US$30 million ?
Budget is USD1billion
Confirm USD760mil spend on those high tech missiles and bombs
Thus left USD240mil for aircraft lor
Min 8 aircraft purchase = USD240mil/8 = USD30mil a piece lor.
Just reveal another secret, our F-16C/D cost only USD20-25mil a piece, cheap or not?
So only goondo will pay EUR90mil for a piece of so call 4G Rafale. -
I think the number has increase to 20 units due to the cheap price. The Rafale was last price for Sg was EUR 75 for every 2 units. I have to salute to Sg for the way it negotiate for such a bargain price, like the Formidable frigates it had brought at the low price.Originally posted by bigballs11:Aiya simple math cannot count meh
Budget is USD1billion
Confirm USD760mil spend on those high tech missiles and bombs
Thus left USD240mil for aircraft lor
Min 8 aircraft purchase = USD240mil/8 = USD30mil a piece lor.
Just reveal another secret, our F-16C/D cost only USD20-25mil a piece, cheap or not?
So only goondo will pay EUR90mil for a piece of so call 4G Rafale. -
anyway... i really think this decision has a lot of political consideration. China seems to be trying to isolate us(or the other way round?) by having a defence pact with malaysia and Indonesia. Remember the news of Thailand wanting to open up an new trade route by opening some river? China also wanna help them since they do not have the technology. If that trade route really opens up, what do you think will happen to us? We gonna lose most, if not all, of our port business since travelling through thailand is a shorter route from China to India. So I do believe that F15T might be an affirmation of our ties with the Americans.
But let's face it... whether or not it's better than the SU-30s... Mindef has already decided on the F15T...
so let's wait to roll the red carpet to welcome the eagles... -
I believe most of the weapons package for the F15T can be used on our F16s as well? Since Dassault has yet to develop an AESA radar, buying the expensive Rafale and pouring in $$$ developing one with them adds a very high overcost to the overall package. And i believe the APG63(v3) on our F15T, sooner or later can be added to our F16s with some help from our long friend eh?
Btw, anyone has any idea if Dassault is able to integrate the AIM120s, weapons and communications systems on our F16s/F5s etc for use with Rafale? -
it's a possbilityOriginally posted by Baozie:I believe most of the weapons package for the F15T can be used on our F16s as well? Since Dassault has yet to develop an AESA radar, buying the expensive Rafale and pouring in $$$ developing one with them adds a very high overcost to the overall package. And i believe the APG63(v3) on our F15T, sooner or later can be added to our F16s with some help from our long friend eh?
Btw, anyone has any idea if Dassault is able to integrate the AIM120s, weapons and communications systems on our F16s/F5s etc for use with Rafale?
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That is what i said earlier..... F15T is a lower cost and lower risk option.. less uncertainties....Originally posted by Baozie:I believe most of the weapons package for the F15T can be used on our F16s as well? Since Dassault has yet to develop an AESA radar, buying the expensive Rafale and pouring in $$$ developing one with them adds a very high overcost to the overall package. And i believe the APG63(v3) on our F15T, sooner or later can be added to our F16s with some help from our long friend eh?
Btw, anyone has any idea if Dassault is able to integrate the AIM120s, weapons and communications systems on our F16s/F5s etc for use with Rafale? -
sorry maybe I ddin't keep up with the news.. but sicne when is china having defence pact with malaysia and indonesia?Originally posted by ah_kwang:anyway... i really think this decision has a lot of political consideration. China seems to be trying to isolate us(or the other way round?) by having a defence pact with malaysia and Indonesia. Remember the news of Thailand wanting to open up an new trade route by opening some river? China also wanna help them since they do not have the technology. If that trade route really opens up, what do you think will happen to us? We gonna lose most, if not all, of our port business since travelling through thailand is a shorter route from China to India. So I do believe that F15T might be an affirmation of our ties with the Americans.
But let's face it... whether or not it's better than the SU-30s... Mindef has already decided on the F15T...
so let's wait to roll the red carpet to welcome the eagles... -
And the news about Thailand carving a sea route has been around since the time I was a kid-in the late 80s...Originally posted by spencer99:sorry maybe I ddin't keep up with the news.. but sicne when is china having defence pact with malaysia and indonesia? -
I am indeed sadden by the news that RSAF is going to get the F-15T instead of the Rafale. But come to think of it...we have really got a real bargain! If you compare the prices between the Rafale and the F-15T, you can see the big difference and given that in Euro, the price is even higher after conversion. Comparism of price between other variants of F-15s also shown that ours is cheaper. Please also remember that our model is currently one of the most advanced in the world. It is currently better than what the US and South Korea have and maybe even slightly better than what Isarel have. Definitely value for money!
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Finally, the F-15T... I hope they will paint it like the Japanese paint their F-15J..
that will look really cool.. -
dont sweat it... just a minor defence pact that is nothing more then mere diplomatic gesture... to enhance interactions.Originally posted by spencer99:sorry maybe I ddin't keep up with the news.. but sicne when is china having defence pact with malaysia and indonesia?
unless malaysia and indonesia wanna find themselves under US CIA scrutiny or enjoy uncle SAM's cold look.....
they would be crazy to declare being part of the china block... americans can be very very harsh... i am sure everyone knows that..
i have no doubt, that before the ink on the pact has even dried... Najib would fax a copy of the "pact" to bush at the white house... "for his information" -
Thats separate purchase , you got it wrongly.Originally posted by bigballs11:Aiya simple math cannot count meh
Budget is USD1billion
Confirm USD760mil spend on those high tech missiles and bombs
Thus left USD240mil for aircraft lor
Min 8 aircraft purchase = USD240mil/8 = USD30mil a piece lor.
Just reveal another secret, our F-16C/D cost only USD20-25mil a piece, cheap or not?
So only goondo will pay EUR90mil for a piece of so call 4G Rafale.
1 billion is for the planes.
that one is separate package deal -
r u sure oue defense budget is limited???Originally posted by spencer99:One must not forget that Sgp is a small nation. and our defence budget is limited. -
At least we dun spend a few thousand to get a hammer.Originally posted by kaka_22:r u sure oue defense budget is limited???
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I would say that the F-15 purchase should be looked into the context of Singapore's defence history.We are only at the point of moving from a patrolling airforce to one which has the ability to deploy overseas.Originally posted by tripwire:dont sweat it... just a minor defence pact that is nothing more then mere diplomatic gesture... to enhance interactions.
unless malaysia and indonesia wanna find themselves under US CIA scrutiny or enjoy uncle SAM's cold look.....
they would be crazy to declare being part of the china block... americans can be very very harsh... i am sure everyone knows that..
This is not a small thing, but take note that although we have come a long way, we are not like those mature airforces around the world.And given the current threat assessment in SEA, I think the Eagles pack bang for buck.And of course, they are much more easily modded by the "mexicans" than the Rafales. -
i believe it can also be due to logistical reasons...
Our mainstay fighters are the Vipers (US) , n we getting Eagles (also US).
Spare parts wise easier to get.
Worst come to worst spare parts not available in time, cannibalise from Viper also can.
Rather ground one fighter than ground a whole squadron right? -
Cannot la! Diff parts leh...Originally posted by Moonstriker:Worst come to worst spare parts not available in time, cannibalise from Viper also can.
Rather ground one fighter than ground a whole squadron right?
... sometimes, economics and war dun mix... better to get the best if you wanna ensure your survival... dun be penny wise, pound foolish... -
Hey, how do you guys know how much and how much does the SAF pay for our weapons?
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It is a mistake to select the F-15 over the Rafale for RSAF.......
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just because of its old airframe?Originally posted by zenden9:It is a mistake to select the F-15 over the Rafale for RSAF....... -
Defense Security Cooperation Agency
NEWS RELEASE
On the web: http://www.dsca.mil Media/Public Contact: (703) 601-3670
Date: 22 August 2005 Transmittal No. 05-39
Singapore – Weapons and Logistics/Training Support for F-15 Aircraft
On 22 August 2005, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military
Sale to Singapore of weapons, logistics, and training support for F-15 aircraft as well as associated equipment
and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $741 million.
The Government of Singapore has requested a possible sale of
Major Defense Equipment (MDE)
200 AIM-120C Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
6 AMRAAM Captive Air Training (CAT) Missiles;
50 MK-82 GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) w/BLU-111 warhead;
44 AN/AVS-9(V) Night Vision Goggles;
24 Link 16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System/Low Volume Terminals (Fighter Data Link
Terminals);
30 AGM-154A-1 Joint Standoff Weapons w/BLU-111;
30 AGM-154C Joint Standoff Weapons;
200 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER Missiles;
24 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER CAT and Dummy Missiles;
Non- MDE
300,000 20mm Practice Round Cartridges;
100 KMU-556 GBU-31 JDAM Tail Kit Assemblies;
4 MK-82 and MK-84 Bomb Practice trainers; and
testing; integration; devices; containers; common munitions built-in test reprogramming equipment; mission
data production system; drones; technical coordination program; engine component management program;
aircrew safety equipment; foreign liaison officer administration support; training equipment; repair and return
services; technical assistance; missile planning system; technical orders; electronic warfare systems and
support; weapons trainers; weapon system reports; missile container; spare and repair parts; supply support;
integration and technical services; spares; support and test equipment; personnel training and training
equipment; software support; publications and technical documentation; training; life support and survival
equipment; studies and surveys; ground support equipment; training missiles; U.S. Government and contractor
technical and logistics personnel services and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is
$741 million.
Singapore has requested a competition between U.S. contractors and foreign competitors for an aircraft
program. If Singapore selects the F-15 aircraft, the aircraft and engines will be purchased commercially, for
which there would be an eventual 36(c) notification of the commercial sale. This proposed sale includes the
weapons and logistics support for the F-15 aircraft.
This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to
improve the security of a friendly country that has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic
progress in Southeast Asia.
This proposed sale will provide Singapore with a credible self-defense capability that will deter aggression in
the region and ensure interoperability with U.S. forces for coalition operations. Current U.S. Government
policy is to enhance and strengthen our relationship with Singapore and this proposed sale will bring our two
militaries closer together. Other countries in the region already or will soon possess this capability. Singapore
needs these munitions to modernize its defensive capability, increase interoperability with U.S. forces, and
provide a viable deterrent force in protection of vital ports and waterways. Singapore will use these munitions
in defense of its sovereignty, or as part of an international coalition. These munitions will significantly improve
its military capability by providing an intermediate-range anti-aircraft capability. Singapore is a modern, high-
tech nation that can absorb these weapons into its armed forces.
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region.
The principal contractors will be Raytheon Missile System Corporation of Tucson, Arizona and Boeing
Integrated Defense Solutions of St. Louis. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with
this potential sale.
There will be up to 10 U.S. Government personnel and 10 contractor representatives for two-week intervals
annually to participate in program management and technical reviews.
There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale.
This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded. -
In considering the acquisition of the F15T, perhaps it will also be useful to consider how this complements our purchase of the F16 C/D series. The aircraft is supposed to be for SEAD operations which would be a sound complement to the F15T strike role.