TNI-AU interception of USN F/A-18C 2003
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Anybody knows about this interception? Saw a webpage on it, but it was in malay. My malay quite limited.. hhaha.
http://www.balipost.co.id/BaliPostcetak/2003/7/13/n1.html
There was some mention of RSAF F-5s and Paya Lebar also.
Have we been flyin recce over indo? -
Yep the USN F-18 were intercepted because of a delay in giving the planes authrization to fly through. But i believe the TNI airforce admited that they would have gotten their butts kicked if there was a fight.
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Sorry, can't understand malay
But TNI's F16A/B without AMRAAM how to match those F18C birds with AIM-120?
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well if they get close enough before engagement actually begins, they could negate the americans' BVR superiority and maybe get a few IR missile shots off? just a thoughtOriginally posted by 38�Ž:Sorry, can't understand malay
But TNI's F16A/B without AMRAAM how to match those F18C birds with AIM-120? 
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My Bahasa Indonesia is crap, but from what I can tell, I think they originally thought it was a flight of RSAF Freedom Fighters on their way from PLAB to Darwin. They then scrambled their Vipers in order to have visual confirmation that it was indeed our Freedom Fighters.
I guess they only realised later on that it was actually a flight of Super Hornets operated by the US Navy.
Can someone with a better command of Bahasa Indonesia confirm/disprove what I just said? It seems highly unlikely that the Indonesians would want to send their Vipers to face off with our Freedom Fighters. -
F-5A/B = freedom fighter
F-5E/F/S/T = Tiger II
=) -
If the F18C's pilot let TNIÂ’s F16A get close enough, then IÂ’m pretty sure the guy will face military discipline afterwards even he wins the doggy fighting.Originally posted by sgFish:well if they get close enough before engagement actually begins, they could negate the americans' BVR superiority and maybe get a few IR missile shots off? just a thought
The F18C can see F16A 1st, can shoot it 1st while still let it close enoughÂ… -
Indonesia only has a handful of F-16s operational.Originally posted by sgFish:well if they get close enough before engagement actually begins, they could negate the americans' BVR superiority and maybe get a few IR missile shots off? just a thought
i believe the F-16 A/B were the only few ones available as an option.
Even if they do , by 1% of a chance of a luck , getting those F/A-18c down , you think the incoming carrier won't do anything?
They will know who is the boss. -
in today's world , no one dogfights.Originally posted by 38�Ž:If the F18C's pilot let TNI’s F16A get close enough, then I’m pretty sure the guy will face military discipline afterwards even he wins the doggy fighting.
The F18C can see F16A 1st, can shoot it 1st while still let it close enoughÂ… -
Even if it was RSAF aircraft , i don't think they can even stand off against our
F-5.
It was also reported in news that our F-5T can carry amraams. -
RSAF F-5s are also Python 4 capable. Singapore purchased 600 of these IR weapons with delivery from 1997-2002.
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Btw that is public domain even though not officially acknowledged by the RSAF. Try looking for Acrobat Reader documents regarding arms transfers to Singapore under Google you should be able to find it.
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Ok sorry my bad.... I've always thought that Tiger II == Freedom Fighter... the way Viper == Fighting Falcon.Originally posted by sgFish:F-5A/B = freedom fighter
F-5E/F/S/T = Tiger II
=)
I guess I'm not enough of a nut to be a full Military Nut.
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Are our F-5S/T true multirole fighters?
They can be armed with AGM-65B missiles and Mk 80 series bombs even before the upgrade but now are they wired to carry more advanced PGMs such as the AGM-65G, Longshot and Paveway II/III?
Anyone has any idea?
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Our F-5s dont drop PGMs cos they dont carry targetting pods. But they can shoot amraams, not sure abt the python 4s tho... Mavericks im not sure either, Probably the earlier models that dun slave to air to ground radars.
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Originally posted by SMAPLionHeart:in today's world , no one dogfights.
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That's the mistake that the US Air force made durign Vietnam War.....n eventually they set up Top Gun school to train their pilots in dog fighting skill...so never assume that dog fight is not essential...it only make an ass out of u n me....
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given the strict ROEs present in limited intensity conflicts (which are getting more and more prevalent over full scale ones) or peacetime (eg. this situation), i would beg to differOriginally posted by SMAPLionHeart:in today's world , no one dogfights. -
The F-5s seem more dedicated to ground-attack, that's what I can see. Few AFs actually use the F-5 to dog-fight, in fact the F-5As were use almost completely in ground-attack roles right from the combat debut in Vietnam and from what I can see, it fought with distinction, with only 12 shot down.Originally posted by Delta 5:Are our F-5S/T true multirole fighters?
They can be armed with AGM-65B missiles and Mk 80 series bombs even before the upgrade but now are they wired to carry more advanced PGMs such as the AGM-65G, Longshot and Paveway II/III?
Anyone has any idea? -
I would agree that in modern air combat, no one would want to get drawn into dogfights. Most engagements will happen at stand off ranges. The US set up Top Gun to re-train their pilots cos they were getting too used to missiles, and could not fight without it. But back then, their best BVR missile was the AIM-7 Sparrow, which is crap since about 30% actually hit their mark. And it required the radar to be locked on to the aircraft until time of impact.
But today, with missiles such as amraams, amraamskis, etc, after the missile goes autonomous, the firing aircraft can now turn away and run, and then set up another shot. Finally, even if it gets down to short range combat, missiles such as the python 4 or archer can fire off boresight, eliminating the need to turn their nose onto the target.
But i'm sure most airforces will still train in combat maneuvers for knife fights. Just in case. =) -
Overall the F-16 Viper is a better dogfighter over the F/A-18 Hornet, especially the latest Block 40/50/60 versions.
However I heard that the F/A-18 has an advantage over the F-16 in certain conditions... Anyone knows? -
The F/A-18 having 2 engines would have an advantage at high altitudes, where the air is thinnerOriginally posted by Delta 5:Overall the F-16 Viper is a better dogfighter over the F/A-18 Hornet, especially the latest Block 40/50/60 versions.
However I heard that the F/A-18 has an advantage over the F-16 in certain conditions... Anyone knows? -
F-16's advantage is that it can climb faster due to its high thrust to weight ratio. Being able to climb fast is a dogfighter's best ability.
Having more thrust to weight ratio also means u can quickly get into ur maximum "corner" airspeed, faster than the opponent can.
2ndly, the F-16 has a slightly lower aspect ratio when compared to the F/A-18C. 3.2 vs 3.5, and for the super bug, aspect ratio of 4. The lower the aspect ratio, the faster it can roll. Rolling is a crucial to close air combat since, u need to roll the aircraft into the correct lift vector to bring the enemy on ur nose.
However, the advantage, if u choose to call it that, is probably that the hornet can stay in a fight longer than the F-16. Both full and without external fuel tanks, (Jettisoned anyway before dogfights), the F-16 carries only 2/3 of what the hornet can carry. Hence, if the viper is unable to win a quick one, its ability to survive the confrontation would soon diminish. -
wont the fact that the F/A-18 has 2 engines cause it to burn fuel at a higher rate?Originally posted by Shotgun:however, the advantage, if u choose to call it that, is probably that the hornet can stay in a fight longer than the F-16. Both full and without external fuel tanks, (Jettisoned anyway before dogfights), the F-16 carries only 2/3 of what the hornet can carry. Hence, if the viper is unable to win a quick one, its ability to survive the confrontation would soon diminish. -
Just to correct to earlier misconceptions.
RSAF DOES use its F5S/Ts as air defense fighters. It's ground attack role is secondary.
RSAF F5S/Ts CAN carry the Maverick for air-to-ground.
Actually the earlier F16A/Bs are better dogfighters than the C/Ds. This is probably due to the fact that the A/B models are slightly lighter and have less things hanging off them, i.e. Lanterin pods, and other budgles and stuff.