Singapore buys 2 Vastergotland Subs
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from defenceindustriesdaily.com ...
Singapore Orders 2 Swedish Submarines
hmm... interesting... "some important technology.." also note that these two boats are not AIP equipped, it's the other two boats in service with swedish navy that is AIP. No wonder so cheap. And there's no mention that it'll be AIP equipped. Quite sad to buy two non-AIP equipped sub again. Some crap stuff
Posted 08-Nov-2005 17:20
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SHIP_SSK_Sodermanlund-Vastergotland.jpg
Kockums AB, which is part of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, has signed a contract with Singapore's Ministry of Defence to supply two SSK Vastergotland Class diesel-electric submarines to the Republic of Singapore Navy. These ships will join four Kockums AB Challenger Class submarines, and the Kockums-manufactured Landsort Class mine hunters (MCMVs) and related mine-clearance systems already in service with the Republic of Singapore Navy. Terms were not disclosed by either party.
The Vastergotland Class is currently in service with the Royal Swedish Navy as well, but under a different name and with some important technology differences.
odernization, and their conversion for operation in tropical waters. The contract also includes a logistics package and training for the crews. Training will be conducted by the Swedish Navy in Karlskrona, along the lines adopted in conjunction with the earlier Challenger Class
The Vastergotland Class is currently in service with the Royal Swedish Navy as well but under a different name and with some important technology differences.
Back on Sept. 29, 2005, a MINDEF spokesperson said:
"The Swedish Navy is planning to stand down two of its submarines of the Vastergotland class.... Mindef is now considering whether this might provide the Republic of Singapore Navy an opportunity to enhance its submarine capabilities by replacing some of its Challenger class submarines with the Vastergotland class submarines."
the other two boats in the Vastergotland class, HMS Sodermanland and HMS Ostergotland, have been cut in two and had a new 8m (25-foot) section added with Kockums AB's Stirling AIP (Air-Independent Propulsion) system, creating the new Sodermanland Class. This makes the Royal Swedish Navy the only service in the world with an all-AIP conventional submarine fleet.
The submarines HMS Vastergotland and HMS Halsingland will now be transferred to Singapore upon completion of their modernization, and their conversion for operation in tropical waters. The contract also includes a logistics package and training for the crews. Training will be conducted by the Swedish Navy in Karlskrona, along the lines adopted in conjunction with the earlier Challenger Class. -
Did you read thru the whole thread???Originally posted by ah_kwang:from defenceindustriesdaily.com ...
hmm... interesting... "some important technology.." also note that these two boats are not AIP equipped, it's the other two boats in service with swedish navy that is AIP. No wonder so cheap. And there's no mention that it'll be AIP equipped. Quite sad to buy two non-AIP equipped sub again. Some crap stuff
Obviously you did not!!!
Here what is reported by Mindef on 4th Nov 2005:The Vastergotland-class submarines will be upgraded and converted for operations in tropical waters before they are delivered to the RSN, to replace some of the Challenger-class subs.
So what is the upgrades???
You and I know that Mindef will not reveal much details abt any upgrades.
Before the official release , David Boey from ST reported this from The Strait Times, Sep 29 , 2005 :
Next is Janes in 06 October 2005 reported this:
Defence analysts said the Vastergotlands would give the RSN's submarine force more punch, as the subs have been fitted with a new kind of engine called 'air independent propulsion'. This engine allows the sub to stay underwater longer.
Lastly we have this from Strategypage:
The package is expected to include modernisation refits prior to delivery incorporating the addition of a Stirling air-independent propulsion (AIP) system.
http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jni/jni051006_1_n.shtmlSingapore's Super Subs
Will Mindef officially announced that they are AIP???
November 7, 2005: Singapore will buy 2 Swedish A-17 Vastergotland submarines, which are expected to enter service starting in 2010, replacing some of current Challenger-class submarines. This fits into Singapore's traditional method of acquiring new capabilities, where old refurbished platforms are first purchased to gain operational experience before newer weapons systems are acquired.
In 1995, Singapore purchased 4 A-11 Challenger Class (ex-Sjöbjörnen Class), the first of which was launched in 1968. The Challenger Class were not only refitted for tropical conditions, but also received weapons system and sensor upgrades. These submarines performed very well in exercises against US Navy and Royal Australian Navy units, proving that these old boats, when handled well in littoral conditions, are quiet and maneuverable subs that are able to give a pretty good account of themselves.
Of the 4 submarines in the Vastergotland class that Sweden built between 1987 and 1990, the first two boats, the HMS HMS Vastergotland and HMS Halsingland were taken out of Royal Swedish Navy active service in 2004, while the other two, the HMS Sodermanland and HMS Ostergotland, received such significant upgrades in 2003-2004 that they are considered a new class.
In particular, apart from weapons system and stealth system improvements, these boats received a 12 metre (36 foot) hull extension in order to use the Stirling Air Independent Propulsion System, making them, along with the 3 submarines of the follow on A-19 Gotland Class, probably the quietest and most advanced conventional submarines currently in operational service the world. The Stirling AIP system is a propulsion system that uses diesel fuel and Liquid Oxygen in a closed system, and greatly increases a conventional submarine's submerged endurance. With AIP systems, conventional submarines can go for weeks without having to surface or snorkel in order to recharge their batteries.
Singapore has purchased the deactivated HMS Vastergotland and HMS Halsingland, and it is more than likely that part of the upgrades that these boats will receive will include the Stirling AIP hull extension, making them virtually identical to the Sodermanland Class. This means that by 2010, the RSN will be operating two of the quietest and most lethal conventional submarines in the world, and probably at a pretty good price - definitely below the cost of a new Gotland sub, which has been suggested at $100 million each, while the German U-212 Class has been estimated at $250 million a copy.
Just how lethal will these subs be? Well, take into consideration that the state-of-the-art Gotland Class, which is essentially an improved Vastergotland Class with the Stirling AIP system incorporated from the beginning, is considered so quiet and so deadly that the USN has leased the HMS Gotland for a year in order to practice and develop its ASW tactics against a first class opponent.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/articles/20051107.aspx
You could wait till the 2 boats retired and yet you would not get that!!!!
Anyway , we could confirm it when the pix of the RSN's Vastergotlands are released, they should have much longer hull if they are AIP.
Here a good pix for future reference:
The original Vastergotlands, the length of the front hull in front of the tower(sail or fin) is almost equal to the length of back hull( the propeller section is underwater), thus it will look like equal length as shown in this pix:
http://www.ubatsvapnet100.com/gal_image.asp?id=315
The upgraded Vastergotlands will have longer back hull as shown below:
So wait for the release of pix of RSN's Vastergotlands !!! -
Wow... this is indeed news that would worry some neighbours of ours. One of the quietest boats in the world is going to be in our inventory....
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relieved to hear that it'll be AIP equipped... phew...
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Dunt laugh at our old subs.New subs may not be good.
Colin Class Sub of Australia has been replete with cost overruns, schedule overruns, and serious teething problems. Most of these issues have now been resolved, albeit at additional cost; the combat system upgrade is simply the latest, last, and most significant hangover from those past problems.
What Auusie Navy says of their sub
What went wrong
2.Why Auusie use so big sub,3350 tons ,but only 6 subs!!
We,Singapore ,are a tiny fraction but we have 4 subs. -
Erm, Small subs are better.... smaller target + they can operate more effectively in restrictive waters?? yes?
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I believe I read somewhere that water in the region especially South China Sea are quite shallow, average abt 80m in depth.Originally posted by Shotgun:Erm, Small subs are better.... smaller target + they can operate more effectively in restrictive waters?? yes?
The Swede are specialised in coastal subs( i.e. for shallow waters) becos of their own requirement , that maybe why we have chosen them.
And yes, for such condition the smaller the better, today standard, coastal subs is classified as abt 60m & below in length.
In fact, I remember that when the RSwN decided to upgrade 2 of their Vastergotland(48.5m) to Sodermanland(60.5m), there were ppl in Swedish circle were complaining it is too long!!!
Becos before AIP, all Swedish subs were abt 50m, but the problem is if you add in AIP, there is a hulll extension of abt 10m, in this case 12m. -
.India to Sign Multi-billion Dollar 6 Franco-Spanish Scorpene Sub Contract (Updated)
Posted 19-Sep-2005 09:50The Scorpene Class
Displacing 1,700 metric tonnes, the standard CM-2000 Scorpene Class is 219 feet long with a submerged speed of over 20 knots, and submerged range at 100% battery usage and a speed of four knots of 134 hours/536 miles. This new submarine class incorporates a high level of system redundancy to achieve an average 240 days at sea per year per submarine, and the endurance to undertake a 50 day patrol before being resupplied.
It can also be equipped with an additional MESMA brand AIP (air-independent propulsion). This allows the sub to remain submerged 3 times longer than normal without having to come up for air, but lengthens it by 9m/30 ft.
The agreement gives India the option of incorporating AIP technology after delivery of the third of the six submarines, Naval Chief Admiral Arun Prakash said after signing the deal in South Block. -
In reality, there are no AIP Scorpene in existed or ordered, so far Chile, MY and India's initial order are all non AIP variant.
Whereas Spain S-80 are not exactly Scorpene but their own design.
Anyway, there are actually 3 variant of Scorpene offered, 2 of them with AIP, which are Basic-AIP(76.2m) and the Compact(59.4m).
Only the Compact is specially designed to perform littoral warfare missions, too bad MY did not order this!
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
That's a pic of challenger class sub...not sodermanland
[b]www.defenseindustrydaily.com[/b] -
Australia wanted longer endurance and time-spent at sea for thier subs. Given thier larger area of control and expeditious nature of thier forces tagged to US`s adventures overseas as it is, I think that`s the case. Don`t think we need something that large. Also, RSN is looking at the region and our naval assests as a whole and we match up and could reasonably overcome the threat posed by regional navies.
More importantly and not just the case of following a known but infrequent trend of buying second hand goods first, I suspect we are actually waiting for certain technologies to mature and than make our purchase. Say if we buy now, it`d be superseded by newer subs coming out next decade and it does`nt make cost sense to buy again. We`d be carving a small lead in naval war-fare to steal a mile in the future. So, we`d always be having the last laugh. We`d be good buddies with the Swedes by then. -
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Vastergotland sub fr Janes Fighting Ships -
Does it say how many blades on the screw, and how many screws it has?
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JDW 16.11.2005 reported that 2 incoming subs will be converted to
Södermanland Class A17S standard.With the conversion of the Södermanland Class, the Swedish Navy will get two practically new submarines capable of operating for the next twenty years without further modernisation.
Of course ,they will be AIP equipped -
hmmm they are one of the quietests subs ever, and they are gonna be ours!
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And they will come with DM2A4 heavyweight torpedos... Those things pack a big punch!Originally posted by Shotgun:hmmm they are one of the quietests subs ever, and they are gonna be ours!
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I rather we try experimenting something like the russian shvkal torpedo.
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Thats cool... A torpedo which moves in a 'capsule' of air and strikes at a speed unmatched by any torpedo today...Originally posted by Shotgun:I rather we try experimenting something like the russian shvkal torpedo. -
Yeap! Perfect for quiet subs. Get close enuff to let the shkval go, and the opposing sub may not even get a chance for a snapshot!
Super cavitation rocks! -
Er..... not quite as simple as this leh...Originally posted by Shotgun:Yeap! Perfect for quiet subs. Get close enuff to let the shkval go, and the opposing sub may not even get a chance for a snapshot!
Super cavitation rocks!
Points to consider:
1. once you start flooding the torpedoes tubes and open those doors, they can be picked up by the enemy subs.
2. The Shkval uses high speed (200kts) to achieve a hit, assuming that the enemy cannot react fast enough to get out of the way. These torps are not like your normal active/passive torps which can do S curve runs or require lost contacts. At 200kts, the Shkvals are not going to hear much...
3. For a coastal attack, the Shkval is ideal. In open seas or ocean where the depths are far greater, the effectiveness of Shkval is yet to be proven. -
Are we sure we are going with the German torps rather than the Swedish Torpedoes 2000? Don't forget the 400mm torps too!Originally posted by Delta 5:And they will come with DM2A4 heavyweight torpedos... Those things pack a big punch! -
Well like i said, when u have shkval, u'd want to get in so close that the opp sub has no time or room to manuever.Originally posted by Joe Black:Er..... not quite as simple as this leh...
Points to consider:
1. once you start flooding the torpedoes tubes and open those doors, they can be picked up by the enemy subs.
2. The Shkval uses high speed (200kts) to achieve a hit, assuming that the enemy cannot react fast enough to get out of the way. These torps are not like your normal active/passive torps which can do S curve runs or require lost contacts. At 200kts, the Shkvals are not going to hear much...
3. For a coastal attack, the Shkval is ideal. In open seas or ocean where the depths are far greater, the effectiveness of Shkval is yet to be proven.
Its like hunting with 1 bullet... u don't shoot until u are sure it will hit and kill the target. -
fastergotland ?
