Any more news about tank replacements?
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Actually I would prefer if some of our members exercise some "control". Please dont say My Uncle...... I know it maybe true but we must follow our Government stance that there's not such thing in our inventory. Please read the forum rules again. Until we say we have it we dont have it. Else who knows when someone comes knocking on your door and for what reason?
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Point noted
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Well this news is available in books and on the net...Originally posted by sigal2k+:Actually I would prefer if some of our members exercise some "control". Please dont say My Uncle...... I know it maybe true but we must follow our Government stance that there's not such thing in our inventory. Please read the forum rules again. Until we say we have it we dont have it. Else who knows when someone comes knocking on your door and for what reason?
Anyway our views do not represent those of any official body rite?
Its ok la jus relax... -
don't have to worry too much about disclosure here .... those with really classified info, won't say .... those unvetted personnel with "classified" info ... the SAF probably has factored that into their security and risk analysis ...
take the book by Huxley "Defending the lion city " for example ... on first glance, it looks like an intelligence bonanza for any potential enemy right ? ... but let's think deeper eh ....
Huxley's a defence analyst specializing in asian matters ... he needs access to Singapore and mindef for his work ... you think he'd shoot his own ass by publishing information that the SAF doesn't want the public to know ? without any vetting ? .... hardly eh ? ....
believe me ... the SAF only let's the public know what it wants the public to know ... and i'm not talking about press releases here ....
on the other hand though ... things like how many rounds camp prowlers carry, guard com SOP etc, are information that can really be used by say, a terrorist group or suicide bombers .... but these are hard to keep under wraps cos the prowlers and guard coms are NSmen like you and me ... so let's keep that in mind eh ... -
Wah... so scary hor... Oh no, I hear the knocks now!!!Originally posted by sigal2k+:Actually I would prefer if some of our members exercise some "control". Please dont say My Uncle...... I know it maybe true but we must follow our Government stance that there's not such thing in our inventory. Please read the forum rules again. Until we say we have it we dont have it. Else who knows when someone comes knocking on your door and for what reason?
Don't get over zealous. Though SG govt never officially talked about the existence of Centurions, they also never officially DENIED the existence of Centurions. Where did you get that SG government said we don't have it?
I'm sorry, my uncle was at no point being made to feel like he was a top secret operative sworn to secrecy. But I'll tell him your concern. -
I am very well aware, that the info I am posting here is not in any way "classified".Originally posted by Fatum:don't have to worry too much about disclosure here .... those with really classified info, won't say .... those unvetted personnel with "classified" info ... the SAF probably has factored that into their security and risk analysis ... -
Heard the new LT resemble the body of MBT. Dunno how true is it. Dunno whether will have equal protection from this tank if it is true. Hope it uses a steering wheel rather then bicycle stick or four sticks. As for tempest, Centurions or wat ever, hope it get replaced soon. Never like it, too much trouble.
Does anyone knows whether armor will train in India in the future? Need to be mentally prepared for it. -
Well, you better get prepared, they are already training in India, though not as regular as Wallaby.Originally posted by +Alucard+:Heard the new LT resemble the body of MBT. Dunno how true is it. Dunno whether will have equal protection from this tank if it is true. Hope it uses a steering wheel rather then bicycle stick or four sticks. As for tempest, Centurions or wat ever, hope it get replaced soon. Never like it, too much trouble.
Does anyone knows whether armor will train in India in the future? Need to be mentally prepared for it.
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last heard that ATI will send it's trainees over there for training. think start liao.Originally posted by warspite:Well, you better get prepared, they are already training in India, though not as regular as Wallaby.
AISL and even the AOCC. -
Excellent.Originally posted by +Alucard+:Heard the new LT resemble the body of MBT. Dunno how true is it. Dunno whether will have equal protection from this tank if it is true. Hope it uses a steering wheel rather then bicycle stick or four sticks. As for tempest, Centurions or wat ever, hope it get replaced soon. Never like it, too much trouble.
Does anyone knows whether armor will train in India in the future? Need to be mentally prepared for it.
Which means that we will not go with the option of using a modified Bionix chassis. Instead we will probably use the M8 AGS chassis offered by the USA or something along that line. I feel that a more stable and heavily armoured frame would be needed especially if we are going to install a 120mm gun. -
actually I feel since we already so operational on the SM1 we should keep it and not even think about replacing it. And just concentrate about getting an MBT, a russian T90 MBT could cost only US$2mil.
Has anybody ever thought a simpler less complicated solution would be to just expand our armor operation role? keep the SM1 for BUA defence and use the funds and just buy off the shelf the T90 to get necessary replacements for all the old centurions and we can keep the tank in a museum or it for NDP show or just sell the damn tank to myanmmar if they want it.
Problem solved, that way we still maintain our edge and won't have time lapse in our capability while training new crews for the new system and our logistic and engineering for SM1 still remains but also expand for the newer tank. -
NOOOOOO T-90!!!
Confirm got parts shortages and other problems one. Firstly,its not as widely used as the T-72, hence confirm parts will be in shorter supply.
2ndly, I don't think T-90 parts have NATO Specifications, hence no NPN. Might be problematic there. -
forget abt NATOOriginally posted by Shotgun:NOOOOOO T-90!!!
Confirm got parts shortages and other problems one. Firstly,its not as widely used as the T-72, hence confirm parts will be in shorter supply.
2ndly, I don't think T-90 parts have NATO Specifications, hence no NPN. Might be problematic there. , nato is no action tok ony have already many players with many tanks they dun need our little contribution.
Because we already have high tech manufacturing base and because the russian not so kiasi kialan like the americans abt tech transfer we could get the russians to consent we build the T-90 under license. parts problem solved. Then after a few years we could even supply tank parts to india or middle east/african nations also and make some money and after afew more more years we can even come out with a variant of T90 and sell it as our own creation and make even more money 
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Not a good idea... Our AMX-13SM1s are more than 40 years old, keeping in mind they were already secondhand when we acquired them in 1968-70. It would be demoralising to keep them in service. The only good fate that awaits them would be to cut them up and sell them as scrap metal when our new 120mm armed light tanks enter service in the next few years.Originally posted by four-niner:actually I feel since we already so operational on the SM1 we should keep it and not even think about replacing it. And just concentrate about getting an MBT, a russian T90 MBT could cost only US$2mil.
Has anybody ever thought a simpler less complicated solution would be to just expand our armor operation role? keep the SM1 for BUA defence and use the funds and just buy off the shelf the T90 to get necessary replacements for all the old centurions and we can keep the tank in a museum or it for NDP show or just sell the damn tank to myanmmar if they want it.
Problem solved, that way we still maintain our edge and won't have time lapse in our capability while training new crews for the new system and our logistic and engineering for SM1 still remains but also expand for the newer tank. -
We can donate some to East Timor as a goodwill gesture. AFAIK they don't even have tanks in their army. Even if they did, chances are their tanks are even crappier than our SM-1Originally posted by Delta 5:Not a good idea... Our AMX-13SM1s are more than 40 years old, keeping in mind they were already secondhand when we acquired them in 1968-70. It would be demoralising to keep them in service. The only good fate that awaits them would be to cut them up and sell them as scrap metal when our new 120mm armed light tanks enter service in the next few years. -
see war always have so many scenario your new tank can 1 size fit all situations meh? is better to have different resources to handle different operational requirements, if enemy big tanks come we send in the centurions or T90 or whatever to go head to head. If fighting in BUA we can use more agile light tanks.Originally posted by Delta 5:Not a good idea... Our AMX-13SM1s are more than 40 years old, keeping in mind they were already secondhand when we acquired them in 1968-70. It would be demoralising to keep them in service. The only good fate that awaits them would be to cut them up and sell them as scrap metal when our new 120mm armed light tanks enter service in the next few years.
as i forumer noted, new systems take time to train crews takes time to get operational and also becuz our env is mostly BUA in war time is a good idea to keep some reserve tanks back home to guard the lion's balls so this way our resources is not stretched. -
Actually I am eagerly awaiting the day when East Timor becomes a second Singapore. Just as we seperated from Malaysia and set up our own credible defence force, they can do the same too. At least we will have an ally at our doorstep.Originally posted by sgf:We can donate some to East Timor as a goodwill gesture. AFAIK they don't even have tanks in their army. Even if they did, chances are their tanks are even crappier than our SM-1
Imagine a East Timor armed with F-16s and modern tanks and the like... -
AFAIK they are currently a purely Infantry based army. No armour, no arty, etc. And I can only imagine their navy is more like a coast guard. Definitely no air force. Its gonna take some time. Maybe we can train their pilots & give them 4 or 5 of our F-5s once we retire them.Originally posted by Delta 5:Actually I am eagerly awaiting the day when East Timor becomes a second Singapore. Just as we seperated from Malaysia and set up our own credible defence force, they can do the same too. At least we will have an ally at our doorstep.
Imagine a East Timor armed with F-16s and modern tanks and the like... -
not good idea, the indonesians may misinterpret our goodwill gesture as trying to arm a smaller neighbour against then it will lead to all kinds of mud slinging nonsense and quarrels all over again, then they will turn off our gas on natuna island then whole singapore will blackout again. better dun involve.Originally posted by sgf:We can donate some to East Timor as a goodwill gesture. AFAIK they don't even have tanks in their army. Even if they did, chances are their tanks are even crappier than our SM-1 -
AMX-13 should be junked. They are too poorly armoured and will be death traps for the crews. Why waste time and money training them and then put them in tanks that offer so little protection?
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Well there's no way in hell Timor Leste is gonna be invading Indonesia. So as long as Susilo & gang don't have plans of invading Timor Leste, I don't see why they should be too worried about Timor having a handful of FIFTY year old tanks.Originally posted by four-niner:not good idea, the indonesians may misinterpret our goodwill gesture as trying to arm a smaller neighbour against then it will lead to all kinds of mud slinging nonsense and quarrels all over again, then they will turn off our gas on natuna island then whole singapore will blackout again. better dun involve. -
Personally, i think we should assist Timor Leste as much as possible in terms of setting up their military etc. We can always do it under a pretext of training their troops to be more effective in counter-insurgency, for a more stable reason.
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Its not so simple in the case of Timor Leste. Firstly, they just separate from Indonesia not too long ago and sending arms and helping them militarily can have the negative impact of Indonesia seeing us as helping a potential adversary. Let me explain, I am sure many in the Indonesian government are still bitter over the lost of East Timor. After all, many Indonesian soldiers lives have been lost while annexing and occupying it for so long. They fought against the rebels led by Xanana Gusmao for many years. Many members of the governemnt are also ex military personnel and now they have to see Gusmao a former guerilla leader as a president who meet their own president on the same level as head of states. The lost of East Timor is a terrible blow to their national pride.
Secondly, Timor Leste is currently firmly in the sphere of infuence of Australia since they are the main force who help 'liberate' East Timor.Australia is eager to have a share (some will say by bullying) of the undersea gas fields in the Timor Sea. It will be a politically delicate move should Singapore choose to help Timor Leste.
I think it will be a better idea to sell the older SM1s to Philippines at friendship prices or donate them as they have been combating the Communist and Muslim terrorists for many years without obvious success. We can keep the newer and less worn out ones as reserves. -
Actually, most Iraqi T-72s in GW1 were not the bona fide Russian versions but cheap knockoffs, can't remember if they produce locally in Iraq or imported from China but yeah... you can't really call them T-72s/Originally posted by Delta 5:Similarly, in the Gulf War, the large majority of the Iraqi Army's T-72s were destroyed by American M1A1s and British Challengers. Conversely, only a single M1A1 was taken out by direct T-72 125mm fire. -
Ya war got a lot of scenario, then let's say we plan to acquire 100 tanks, why got acquire 20 of 'A', 20 of 'B', 50 'C' and 10 'D'?Originally posted by four-niner:see war always have so many scenario your new tank can 1 size fit all situations meh? is better to have different resources to handle different operational requirements, if enemy big tanks come we send in the centurions or T90 or whatever to go head to head. If fighting in BUA we can use more agile light tanks.
as i forumer noted, new systems take time to train crews takes time to get operational and also becuz our env is mostly BUA in war time is a good idea to keep some reserve tanks back home to guard the lion's balls so this way our resources is not stretched.
Please lor bro, logistic nightmare leh. The more types we field especially ancient 50year old tanks, very hard to maintain and supply.
You got point, but only countries like Israel that are always at war have a need that warrants fielding so many types.