Malaysia's Astro2 a threat?
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From what I knew, FH2000 can only reach 40km with their ER (Extended Range) rounds. The normal rounds are only like 20km.
Air information taken by the UAV may or may not be reliable, esp on arty targets. After camoflaging, the guns can hardly be seen from air.
The normal method of how the guns find their target is through forward observation by the scouts, BRC, FOs. And its not like the movies (Saving Private Ryan, We Are Soldiers) where the rounds come so fast after the target grid is sent to the gun positions. Just think, a M-16 round moves at 990 metres per sec. It takes abt 40 seconds to travel 40km. What velocity do you think the arty rounds travel at? -
its a tad bit outdated already as it was published before the recent arms acquisition by our friend up north.Originally posted by foxtrout8:Yes...thats the one
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I think that book is a ''bible'' here. I believe 90% of military nuts here had read it. -
not exactly. . . participating in this war in the 'right manner' and being on the winning side may boost her international standings. .. its 50-50 whether she takes part or not in my opinion ...Originally posted by foxtrout8:For wat i know , Indonesia will not be likely to join in the war between Singapore and Malaysia.
Mainly because of her weak economy , small amount of soldier to landspace ratio , inferior weaponary , and political reasons. Logically , she wont want to risk a drop in economy again and risking her mans jus for another country , where at the same time some parts of indonesia is experiencing internal dispute. -
haha, yah, I've read it many times too. . .Originally posted by foxtrout8:Yes...thats the one
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I think that book is a ''bible'' here. I believe 90% of military nuts here had read it. -
yap.
Is there any book out there now which have crediable info abt the SAF? Intro leh. -
correct. . . with the M107, the range is 24km according to official Army website and 19km according to the L P. Kor personal website. . not sure which is right. .Originally posted by awhitea:From what I knew, FH2000 can only reach 40km with their ER (Extended Range) rounds. The normal rounds are only like 20km.
Air information taken by the UAV may or may not be reliable, esp on arty targets. After camoflaging, the guns can hardly be seen from air.
The normal method of how the guns find their target is through forward observation by the scouts, BRC, FOs. And its not like the movies (Saving Private Ryan, We Are Soldiers) where the rounds come so fast after the target grid is sent to the gun positions. Just think, a M-16 round moves at 990 metres per sec. It takes abt 40 seconds to travel 40km. What velocity do you think the arty rounds travel at?
40km is only with ER/BB, (Extended range/Base Bleed) -
yah, hope they launch a second edition in future. . .Originally posted by CX:its a tad bit outdated already as it was published before the recent arms acquisition by our friend up north. -
Maybe they will issue a new edition if we buy some mean weaponary to boast...
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I would rather we keep a low profile. Any new stuffs we hav.. We onli show the world probably 50%.Originally posted by superspitfire:Maybe they will issue a new edition if we buy some mean weaponary to boast... 
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Actually there is a way to counter all those rocket threats in malaysia. Take it that Singapore fails to suppress her enemy in her first strike , we can actually obtain large amounts of land-based barak missile defence system. Placing these system on to strategical locations in Singapore , we can create a SAM envelope too dense for the rocket to come in.
Take it that Malaysia have 18 4cell-tude MLRS systems. She cant possibly place all 18 on to johore right? So lets say she put 9 system in johore. So for every salvo , 36 missiles are fired. We can place 10 barak system along the north-land of Singapore. Each system content 16 missile. So , we can have 160 missile at any time to counter the attack , while our F-16s and other assets have the time to take out the MLRS on land.
Im not sure whether will this work on the rockets anot , but if it works , singapore can have a stockpile of barak missile and her lauch plateform to counter the air-threats. -
Since Singapore face this rocket threat, we should purchase those laser systems from the US which can shoot down projectiles, missiles etc in the air in future. This system has just been tested and is reported to be highly sucessful. But if the US is willing to sell them only.
DSTA and Singapore Technologies should also research in this laser field. -
SINGAPORE BOLEH~~!!!
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jernas, sam and other mapads aren't fake.
their no. of artillery guns and mortars very match to SG, too.Originally posted by foxtrout8:
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Take it that Malaysia have 18 4cell-tude MLRS systems. She cant possibly place all 18 on to johore right? So lets say she put 9 system in johore. So for every salvo , 36 missiles are fired. We can place 10 barak system along the north-land of Singapore. Each system content 16 missile. So , we can have 160 missile at any time to counter the attack , while our F-16s and other assets have the time to take out the MLRS on land.
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israel has been researching this technology for 2 decades with US funds and the results are not promising.
and the laser system developed by the US is still a prototype... just like the patriot system deployed during the gulf war. remember SG was placed no.8 on the patriot order list but later cancelled it after the advice given by israel?Originally posted by eurofighter:Since Singapore face this rocket threat, we should purchase those laser systems from the US which can shoot down projectiles, missiles etc in the air in future. This system has just been tested and is reported to be highly sucessful. But if the US is willing to sell them only. DSTA and Singapore Technologies should also research in this laser field. -
Wishful, but Barak are not designed to shot down unguided rockets. Currently no SAM systems can do that effectively, thus the US and Israeli jointly developed the anti-rocket lasers to shoot them down. Secondly, SAF or Singapore Air Arty units do not currently possess any land-based Barak, but I believe this might be in the pipeline. RSAF is looking at replacing the good 'o Rapier used by 165 SADA.Originally posted by foxtrout8:Actually there is a way to counter all those rocket threats in malaysia. Take it that Singapore fails to suppress her enemy in her first strike , we can actually obtain large amounts of land-based barak missile defence system. Placing these system on to strategical locations in Singapore , we can create a SAM envelope too dense for the rocket to come in.
Take it that Malaysia have 18 4cell-tude MLRS systems. She cant possibly place all 18 on to johore right? So lets say she put 9 system in johore. So for every salvo , 36 missiles are fired. We can place 10 barak system along the north-land of Singapore. Each system content 16 missile. So , we can have 160 missile at any time to counter the attack , while our F-16s and other assets have the time to take out the MLRS on land.
Im not sure whether will this work on the rockets anot , but if it works , singapore can have a stockpile of barak missile and her lauch plateform to counter the air-threats. -
Perhaps the not a land based barak but the arrow anti missile system which can even be used to stop future cruise missilesOriginally posted by Joe Black:Wishful, but Barak are not designed to shot down unguided rockets. Currently no SAM systems can do that effectively, thus the US and Israeli jointly developed the anti-rocket lasers to shoot them down. Secondly, SAF or Singapore Air Arty units do not currently possess any land-based Barak, but I believe this might be in the pipeline. RSAF is looking at replacing the good 'o Rapier used by 165 SADA. -
BaraK have the capacity to stop speeding anti-ship missile from an all level attacks , it was first designed to counter Ballastic Missiles in Israel. I believe the Barak Missile System have the ability to counter rockets flying into Singapore .
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to attack mainland Singapore, they can place their 155mm arty at the tip of johor and 155mm shells will come flying in. (although arty in singapore can whack them back liddat)
Another thing, what is the speed of the SS-60 (60km range max.) and SS-80 (90km range max.)?
I couldn't find it. . . whether the barak can intercept it or not depends on the speed it is flying and the height from which it is coming. . .
antiship missiles generallyfly at a speed of abt 0.8 to 1 mach or so, do the rockets fly faster? -
Barak is for wacking fighters too.........is the speed enough?
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with no radar signature emitted by rockets... barak is useless against it.
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y is there no radar signature by the rockets....where radar can pick up missiles......
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barak can't even stop a scud missile and israel had to deployed patriot during the gulf ware... what do you think barak can stop rocket?Originally posted by foxtrout8:y is there no radar signature by the rockets....where radar can pick up missiles......
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there are a few reasons why barak cant stop a scud...Originally posted by Xerovix:barak can't even stop a scud missile and israel had to deployed patriot during the gulf ware... what do you think barak can stop rocket?
1.... Range... barak's range of 10km... would require the scud to be heading towards barak's envelope of fire to enable the barak to intercept it.. isreal is a big country... it is doubtful... the isrealis would put barak all over isreal in order to catch every scud that is going to hit isreal...its equivalent to putting a barak launcher every 5km in all directions... its crazy and expensive...
2... Size... Barak's size is very small compare with the scud which is an SRBM and the weight of the scud... plus its velocity prior to impact would be so high... a barak's intercept is gonna be like throwing pebbles at a charging tank....
3... you cant place barak at the border and assume that the barak can be use to form a wall... because ... an SRBM usually attacks from a very very high altitude... an altitude.. which i believe the barak are not designed for...
Patriot on the other hand has 10x the range of barak and its much much bigger...the radar and other subcomponent also play a crucial role in interceptions... which the barak system were not design for.... at such ranges...
But.. against MRLS... fired at small small singapore... i think barak would be suitable.....becos MRLS rockets are small... probably smaller then a Anti ship missile... flys at a lower speed compare to a SRBM and do not have a high parabolic flight path without compromising range.... -
Guys get real,
No currently in service SAM could down an ASTROS 2/3 projectiles-READ PROJECTILES -and read some more on the mechanics of such projectiles + cruise missile or fighters flight dynamics.I'm surprised there's a nos of Sg still not well versed in the fundamentals of weapons specs/dynamics(being a total defence/NS country).
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1. scud is a low altitude ballastic missile with a single warhead flying clumsily in slow speed. israel deployed patriot in certain points of the country to protect ONLY 2 cities. to protect the entire country, israel most probably has to deploy patriot systems all over the land.
2. if barak interecept to a scud is like thowing pebbles at a charging tank, it is to say intercepting a mrls rocket with barak is like throwing eggs at a incoming stone... hoping it will hit it and stop it.
3. as i say again... scud is a low altitude slow speed BM. if barak can't intercept a slow flying pig at point defence... it can't intercept something smaller and faster.
don't forget, till now israel still can't intercept a single katyusha attack. for 20 years, only a prototype laser defence system jointly developed by israel and us to intercept katysha was tested and then threw into the dustbin. israel found the best way to destroy katyusha is to stop it from launching using uav to search and call for f-16 air strike.Originally posted by tripwire:there are a few reasons why barak cant stop a scud...
1.... Range... barak's range of 10km... would require the scud to be heading towards barak's envelope of fire to enable the barak to intercept it.. isreal is a big country... it is doubtful... the isrealis would put barak all over isreal in order to catch every scud that is going to hit isreal...its equivalent to putting a barak launcher every 5km in all directions... its crazy and expensive...
2... Size... Barak's size is very small compare with the scud which is an SRBM and the weight of the scud... plus its velocity prior to impact would be so high... a barak's intercept is gonna be like throwing pebbles at a charging tank....
3... you cant place barak at the border and assume that the barak can be use to form a wall... because ... an SRBM usually attacks from a very very high altitude... an altitude.. which i believe the barak are not designed for...
Patriot on the other hand has 10x the range of barak and its much much bigger...the radar and other subcomponent also play a crucial role in interceptions... which the barak system were not design for.... at such ranges...
But.. against MRLS... fired at small small singapore... i think barak would be suitable.....becos MRLS rockets are small... probably smaller then a Anti ship missile... flys at a lower speed compare to a SRBM and do not have a high parabolic flight path without compromising range....