Another I hate Australia thread
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MK 38 25-mm machine gun
The 25mm Machine Gun System (MGS) Mk 38 is a 25mm automatic gun system that provides ownship with defensive and offensive gunfire capability for the engagement of a variety of surface targets. It is designed to provide close range defense against patrol boats, swimmers, floating mines, and various targets ashore including; enemy personnel, lightly armored vehicles and terrorist threats. One crewman is required for operation and two for maintenance.
This system consists of the M242 auto-cannon and the Mk 88 machine gun mount. The M242 auto-cannon is an externally powered, dual-feed, single-barrel weapon which may be fired in semi-automatic or automatic modes. In the automatic mode, the rate of fire is approximately 175 rounds per minute. The M242 does not depend on gases for operation but instead utilizes an electric motor, located in the receiver, to drive all the moving parts inside the cannon. Ammunition feeding, loading and firing, extraction, and ejection are all done by the motor. The Mk 88 machine gun mount train and elevation is controlled manually by the gun operator. In the event of a major malfunction, the M242 auto-cannon can be removed from the mount and another auto-cannon installed in five minutes by two people.
Specifications
Contractor Designed and assembled by Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center;
components procured from various contractorsRange 2700 yards (2.5 km) Guidance System Unstabilized, manually trained and elevated Type of Fire Single shot; 175 rounds per minute automatic Caliber 25 mm (1 inch) Date Deployed 1986 -
What this means is that the ADF actually made a smarter investement then the SAF in facing navaltime terrorist threats. Australian PVs can face terrorist threats not only more effectively, but at a lower cost and leave the real heavyweight fighting up to the bigger ships instead of us which chose a hybrid class that fufill neither needs very well at all.
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BEST SSK IN THE WORLD
State-of-the-art
A Collins Class submarine is a long-range, multipurpose patrol submarine capable of both short duration coastal missions, and long-duration open sea defensive and offensive operations. The submarines have a patrol endurance of more than two months, most of the time submerged.The Collins Class submarines have all the attributes expected of a state-of-the-art submarine, including high manoeuvrability, low signature patterns, high firing rates, and excellent shock endurance.
They are also adapted to the specific environmental conditions and operational profiles applicable to the Royal Australian Navy.
Largest in the world
With a displacement of 3000 tonnes, the Collins Class submarines are the largest, and without a doubt the most advanced and efficient conventional submarines in the world.Collins class can also land Austalian Special Forces who wrecked havoc in Afganistan!
Force Structure
To celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Australian Special Air Service, the Perth mint has produced the Australian SAS 1957 – 2007 1oz Silver Proof Coin
Special Air Service Regiment (SASR) is a Special Forces regiment modeled on the original British SAS and also drawing on the traditions of the Australian World War II 'Z' Special Force commando unit, as well as the Independent Companies which were active in the South Pacific during the same period. It is based at Campbell Barracks, Swanbourne, Perth, Western Australia and is a unit of the Royal Australian Corps of Infantry, part of the Australian Defense Force. They have been widely regarded as one of the better special forces units in the world; ranking alongside the British SAS/SBS and US Navy SEALs special forces.
The Australian SAS is the crack Regiment revered as the 'eyes and ears' of the Australian Defense Force, and the regimental motto is 'Who dares wins'.
Fully supported by the SAS itself, this spectacular Perth Mint release offers collectors of Australian military commemoratives a magnificent tribute with which to celebrate the Regiment’s many vital contributions throughout the world.
The coin's reverse depicts SAS soldiers in action in a variety of operational contexts. The design, which includes colored elements and the words AUSTRALIAN SAS 1957-2007, also portrays the SAS badge incorporating the words WHO DARES WINS.
Issued as legal tender under the Australian Currency Act 1965, the coin’s obverse depicts the Ian Rank-Broadley effigy of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
The coin is struck from 1oz of 99.9% pure silver in proof quality with a Coloured Reverse Design and is housed in a stylish presentation case and superbly illustrated shipper
No more than 7,500 of these coins will be released by The Perth Mint and each will be accompanied by a numbered Certificate of Authenticity.
The Australian SAS 1957 – 2007 1oz Silver Proof Coin is going to be a much sought after coin by coin enthusiasts.
Australia also developing Heavyweight ADCAP Torpedo with Americans, making them far in advance of anything the Singapore Navy has.
Project SEA 1429 Phase 2 Replacement Heavyweight Torpedo will acquire a replacement anti-surface warfare (ASuW) and anti-submarine warfare (ASW) heavyweight torpedo for the COLLINS Class submarine. This acquisition is to replace the Mk 48 Mod 4 heavyweight torpedo (HWT) currently in service with the Royal Australian Navy (RAN).
A Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the Australian and the United States Governments has been established to jointly develop the Mk 48 Advanced Capability (ADCAP) Common Broadband Advanced Sonar System (CBASS) Heavyweight Torpedo. A Joint Project Office (JPO) has been established in Washington DC to manage the CBASS program under an Armaments Cooperative Project arrangement.
The Project Scope includes the acquisition of the weapons, associated logistic support, weapon system interface equipment and transition into service.
The submarines will be progressively upgraded to accommodate the Replacement Heavyweight Torpedo, in conjunction with the Replacement Combat System (SEA 1439 Phase 4A), as part of the submarines' docking program from 2006 through to 2013.
- The upgrade of the Torpedo Maintenance Facility (TMF) at Garden Island , Western Australia was completed in March 2005 following which it entered into a period of training and consolidation prior to Certification in July 2005.
- A Torpedo System Centre was opened at Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO), Edinburgh, SA in July 2004 and a Torpedo Analysis Facility was commissioned in January 2006. This facility will be used to study the performance of the new heavyweight torpedo in a high fidelity, synthetic, controlled environment.
- Mk 48 ADCAP/CBASS Developmental and Operational Testing (DT/OT) was conducted successfully in Australian waters in late 2005 with additional firings being conducted in US waters in March 2006.
- Nautronix Ltd, a Western Australian based company, in cooperation with Project SEA 1429 has developed a portable tracking range for use in shallow water. The range is being used to support developmental and operational test torpedo firings of the new weapon system.
Australian Navy Gets ADCAP Torpedos, Most Advanced Torpedo in Region
MK-48 Torpedo
Torpedoes are self-propelled guided projectiles that operate underwater and are designed to detonate on contact or in proximity to a target. They may be launched from submarines, surface ships, helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. The three major torpedoes in the Navy inventory are the Mark 48 heavyweight torpedo, the Mark 46 lightweight and the Mark 50 advanced lightweight.
The MK-48 is designed to combat fast, deep-diving nuclear submarines and high performance surface ships. It is carried by all Navy submarines. The improved version, MK-48 ADCAP, is carried by attack submarines, the Ohio class ballistic missile submarines and will be carried by the Seawolf class attack submarines. The MK-48 replaced both the MK-37 and MK-14 torpedoes. The MK-48 has been operational in the US Navy since 1972. MK-48 ADCAP became operational in 1988 and was approved for full production in 1989. The SSN 714 Norfolk fired the first ADCAP torpedo on 23 July 1988, sinking the FORREST SHERMAN class destroyer DD 938 Jonas K. Ingram. MK-48 and MK-48 ADCAP torpedoes can operate with or without wire guidance and use active and/or passive homing. When launched they execute programmed target search, acquisition and attack procedures. Both can conduct multiple reattacks if they miss the target.
A highly capable weapon, the MK 48 can be used against surface ships or submarines, and has been test fired under the Arctic ice pack and in other arduous conditions. The ADCAP version, in comparison with earlier MK 48 torpedoes, has improved target acquisition range, reduced vulnerability to enemy countermeasures, reduced shipboard constraints such as warmup and reactivation time, and enhanced effectiveness against surface ships. The MK 48 is propelled by a piston engine with twin, contra-rotating propellers in a pump jet or shrouded configuration. The engine uses a liquid monopropellant fuel, and the torpedo has a conventional, high-explosive warhead. The MK 48 has a sophisticated guidance system permitting a variety of attack options. As the torpedo leaves the submarine's launch tube a thin wire spins out, electronically linking the submarine and torpedo. This enables an operator in the submarine, with access to the submarine's sensitive sonar systems, initially to guide the torpedo toward the target. This helps the torpedo avoid decoys and jamming devices that might be deployed by the target. The wire is severed and the torpedo's high-powered active/passive sonar guides the torpedo during the final attack.
The MK 48 Mod 5 ADCAP torpedo is an improvement to the MK 48 submarine launched torpedo. It is a heavyweight acoustic homing torpedo with sophisticated sonar and a fuzed warhead. The ADCAP enhancement includes all digital guidance and control systems, digital fuzing systems, and pro-pulsion improvements which add speed, depth, and range capability. The Navy will produce about 1046 MODS ADCAPs, replacing an equivalent number of baseline (Mod 5) ADCAPs, and maintaining the total inventory of ADCAP torpedoes at 1046. One of the major advantages of using readily available technology to develop an updated weapon using the current torpedo body and off the shelf systems resulted in significant savings and reduction in the development time for the ADCAP torpedo. In addition, by using currently installed systems in place for operating and maintaing the MK-48 torpedo very little additional cost is incurred in new facilities for maintenance and repair.
The Navy developed two hardware modifications to ADCAP, called the G&C (Guidance and Control) MOD and the TPU (Torpedo Propulsion Upgrade) MOD. The G&C MOD replaces the obsoles-cent guidance and control set with current technology, improves the acoustic receiver, and adds additional memory and improves processor throughput to handle the expanded software demands anticipated for near term upgrades. The TPU MOD improves the propulsion unit as discussed in the classified version of the FY96 Annual Report. Both modifications were combined into one torpedo, the MK 48 Mod 6 (MODS ADCAP).
Software Block Upgrade III (BU III) is intended to provide a near-term improvement for use in the baseline G&C for improved performance in some key scenarios.
Software Block Upgrade IV is intended to provide a mid-term upgrade for use in the MODS G&C for improved performance in key scenarios as discussed in the classified version of this report. It will use advanced sonar and signal processing algorithms.
One engineering change planned for the MODS ADCAP, the Common Torpedo Development Vehicle (COT-DV), is planned for fleet introduction in the FY01 time frame. COT-DV is a common processor to be used on all advanced U.S. torpedoes, that will use COTS hardware and be significantly more capable than the current MODS G&C. It will initially use BU IV software.
Another hardware upgrade, Common Broadband Advanced Sonar System (CBASS), is planned for IOC in FY04. Additional information about CBASS is contained in the classified version of this report.
The ADCAP torpedo OPEVAL was completed in August 1988, and the B-LRIP report was sent to Congress in December 1988. ADCAP was reported to be operationally effective against certain threats, but not operationally effective against other threats at that time. The system was reported operationally suitable. The Navy subsequently authorized full-rate production, but Congress constrained procurement because of the concerns identified in test reporting. Modifications were implemented by the Navy to improve performance in certain scenarios, upgrade fuzing systems, and improve reliability. These modifications were considered effective. In 1994 a second software upgrade was introduced to improve performance and reliability.
The MODS ADCAP (MK 48 Mod 6), when properly employed, is more effective than the ADCAP torpedo (MK 48 Mod 5). Unfortunately, production MOD 6 ADCAPs have shown a significant vulnerability, differing from the test units. This production problem is typical of problems seen in the initial phases of LRIP. The program office is investigating. DOT&E will continue to follow this.
Performance in some environments of both ADCAP and MODS ADCAP, against certain targets employing advanced tactics and equipment, still needs to be improved. Shortfalls are discussed in the classified version of this report. The program office is aggressively working to upgrade these modes.
The MK 48 ADCAP torpedo R&D program focuses on two specific areas through FY99: Guidance and Control (G&C) software block upgrades and wideband sonar capability. The Chief of Naval Operations continues to stress shallow water (less than 600 feet) as a critical operating area to counter third world diesel electric submarines. Torpedo testing in shallow water has demonstrated that in-service ADCAP has less than full capability in this difficult environment. However, this testing, in conjunction with laboratory simulation efforts, has shown that significant performance improvements can be made by implementing changes to weapon tactics and software algorithms. Development, implementation and testing of these changes is being accomplished under the ADCAP G&C software block upgrade program.
The focus of the MK 48 ADCAP torpedo R&D program for FY99 and out has shifted from being primarily concentrated on Software Block Upgrade efforts to a coordinated hardware/software upgrade for countering evolving threats and maintaining robust performance. Countermeasure (CM) sophistication and availability on the open market directly affects ADCAP kill proficiency and its ability to counter rapidly evolving threats. The Common Broadband Advanced Sonar System (CBASS) program will develop and field a wideband sonar capable of identifying CMs and discriminating them from the target. CBASS received an ACAT III designation on 17 April 1997, with full rate production scheduled to begin in FY04.
The introduction of phased prototyping in FY01 will provide a more rapid technology transition path for incremental torpedo improvements and upgrades (including the development and test of New Technology Concepts from the R&D community (6.2) and contractor Independent Research and Development (IR&D)). This approach will incorporate accelerated in-water testing of the new concepts allowing early Fleet input into future ADCAP upgrades and help to provide the foundation for Next Generation Torpedoes. These efforts will continue torpedo development investment at a lower cost and shorter term than traditional torpedo development programs.
Specifications
Primary Function Heavyweight torpedo for submarines Contractor Gould Power Plant Air Turbine Pump Discharge (ATPD) system;
liquid (Otto) fueled swash plate engine with pumpjet propulsor. Length 19 feet (5.79 meters) Weight 3,434 lbs (1545.3 kg) (MK-48);
3,695 lbs (1662.75 kg) (MK-48 ADCAP) Diameter 21 inches (53.34 centimeters) Range Officially "Greater than 5 miles (8 km)"Claimed 40 kt 55 kt MK-48 44,550 yd 34,430 yd MK-48 ADCAP 54,685 yd 42,530 ydWeapon acquisition range 1600 yards Min/Max ASROC launching ranges 1500 to 12000 yards Speed Officially "Greater than 28 knots (32.2 mph, 51.52 kph)"
Reportedly - 40 - 55 kt.
Actual 55 knots Depth Officially "Greater than 1,200 ft (365.76 meters)"
Reportedly 3,000 ft Search/attack depth settings Minimum 20 yards
Maximum 1500 yards Run characteristics 6-8 minutes
downward Guidance System Wire guided and passive/active acoustic homing Warhead 650 lbs (292.5 kg) high explosive Date Deployed 1972
1988 ADCAP Unit Cost $2.5 million
$3.5 million (?) ADCAPAdvanced Technologies Perfected for Collins class and future Submarine Class
"So what can we expect in the future?" That's a question regularly posed to Defence scientists. It's not an unreasonable question given the public's fascination with technological advances in all fields, let alone defence science.
Yet a question that is asked less frequently, but which is probably far more pertinent is "What's happening now?"
For DSTO, the short answer is "plenty". While DSTO is leading and taking part in many projects that have a long-term focus on future warfare concepts, a substantial proportion of our work is directed towards supporting the current capabilities of Australia's air, naval and land forces, in both training and operational modes.
DSTO has developed a number of key capabilities designed to enhance the current ADF. These capabilities include:
- Through-life support of assets, which involves the development and application of technologies for the through-life support of air, maritime and land platforms.
- Operational analysis, which involves the application of scientific methods to assess the effectiveness of military operations.
- Warfighter support, which involves the provision of direct support to the war- fighter through a mix of modelling and simulation tools combined with expertise in human sciences.
- Acquisition advice, which involves the provision of scientific and technical advice on the acquisition of materiel, as well as acting as technical adviser to Defence during the development of new capabilities and their introduction into service.
One of DSTO's longest-running, continuous projects has been support for the Collins-class submarine. DSTO has been providing vital scientific and technical support for the Collins class submarine since the design was first proposed in 1986.
Much of the focus has been on addressing current capability issues, and our work has resulted in significant benefits, including vastly improved stealth performance as a result of a number of magnetic and acoustic investigations.
Demagnetisation enhancements have achieved low variability in the final platform magnetisation, and have also greatly reduced the amount of required deperming treatment time, resulting in considerable operational cost savings.
DSTO's acoustics work has produced better signature prediction as well as valuable strategies and solutions for management of the acoustic signature.
And, in the combat system, DSTO was instrumental in developing a new open architecture environment which has been of major benefit for the capability.
DSTO's involvement in the F-111 Sole Operator Program (SOP) has also been widely recognised. Among research activities conducted as part of the SOP have been a full-scale tear-down of an F-111 fuselage, full-scale fatigue testing of an F-111 wing, countermeasures trials aimed at reducing the susceptibility of aircraft to infra-red and radar-guided missiles, and the development of a PC-based engine diagnostic and acceptance system that has been installed in the engine-test cells at RAAF Amberley for ground testing the aircraft's TF30 engines.
DSTO's involvement in the SOP is ensuring the safe and effective operation of the F- 111 fleet to its planned withdrawal from service.
An excellent example of support to operations has been the successful conduct of trials by DSTO and the Air Force's Joint Electronic Warfare Operational Support Unit to validate the effectiveness of countermeasures to protect C-130J aircraft against threats like infrared-guided man-portable air defence systems, commonly referred to as shoulder-launched missiles. These trials were part of a rapid acquisition fitment of electronic warfare self-protection equipment. In September, the C-130J departed for Iraq operations and was farewelled by the Minister for Defence, Robert Hill, who acknowledged the success of the rapid acquisition program.
DSTO's expertise in air accident investigation has been called on several times over the years. The organisation provides support to the Directorate of Flying Safety to investigate aircraft accidents and has several key investigators on call to respond immediately.
Central to DSTO's success in accident investigation has been the use of global positioning system technology to map the crash debris over an accident site.
In recent years, our accident investigators have conducted forensic investigations of crashes of Black Hawk helicopters, a Eurocopter Tiger helicopter, a US Marine Corps F/A-18, and a Russian-made Ilyushin IL-76 cargo jet aircraft in East Timor.
One major fear of all submarine and ship personnel is an outbreak of fire, and DSTO has been involved in fire and smoke research since 1989. Our research provides Navy with advice on the measures required to minimise the risk of, and combat the spread of, fire and smoke, as well as of equipment failure. While we conduct some full-scale experiments, most of the research revolves around numerical and salt water modelling.
Numerical modelling involves the use of computational fluid dynamics to study possible fire scenarios, while salt water modelling involves the injection of salt water (the analogue of hot smoke) into fresh water (the analogue of air), and the subsequent study of the resulting behaviour.
Modelling is also a central component of the wide range of DSTO's human factor-related research, which includes human-machine interface design, task workload analysis, predictive modelling and the development of training systems.
There are many more examples of DSTO's work supporting the current ADF; examples that come from all divisions within the organisation.
And therein lies the secret behind DSTO's success: strength through diversity. Deep pockets of technical knowledge exist throughout the organisation, and this knowledge is able to be brought together and drawn on to solve problems.
But it is not just the internal units of DSTO that we rely on to support the ADF. DSTO readily acknowledges that the goal of enhancing the ADF's existing capabilities a wide range of parties, including those in industry and academia.
We have forged strong relationships with companies and institutions that have the appropriate intellectual capabilities and expertise.
DSTO is working to further encourage Australian industry to become a key player in the development of the required support.
Wherever Australian military personnel are operating or training, wherever Australian military platforms and technology are being used, DSTO's fingerprints can be detected. While research and development into future warfare technologies and practices is critical, the development of solutions to today's problems can never be underestimated.
Dr Sare is Director of the Platforms Sciences Laboratory, DSTO
The role of seeking and destroying an enemy submarine is one of the most difficult faced by Australia's six new Collins class submarines. The success off Hawaii in August has boosted morale dramatically among submarine crews who have had to endure years of hearing their boats condemned as noisy and vulnerable.
A 1999 report by the then CSIRO chief, Malcolm McIntosh, and former BHP managing director John Prescott said the Collins' combat system should be junked, the vessels were noisy and vulnerable to attack, their engines broke down regularly, a badly shaped hull and fin made too much disturbance when they moved at speed under water, the view from the periscope was blurry, the communications system outdated and the propellers were likely to crack.
Commander Steve Davies, chief-of-staff in the navy's submarine force, said that during the past three years those problems had been fixed to the point where the submarines were able to match the best of the US Navy's giant underwater fleet.
During its mock attacks on the Olympia and on two US destroyers, the Sheean fired 28 torpedoes. Commander Davies said "a respectable percentage" of shots Sheean fired at Olympia were hits that would have destroyed the powerful US vessel.
Commodore Davies, Australia's most experienced Collins commander, said the two vessels were very evenly matched. The submarines also practised landing special forces.
The exercises provided a crucial test for the Australian submarine, which has been as much criticised at home as it has been feted abroad.
The Olympia, 110 metres long and 12 metres across the beam, is twice the displacement of the Sheean, at 80 metres by eight metres. The Olympia carries up to 120 crew; the Sheean 45. Many of the Americans are engineers caring for their reactor.
The Collins is powered by diesel and electric motors and its roles include undersea warfare - finding and destroying other submarines - destroying enemy warships and merchant ships, surveillance and intelligence collection, support for special forces and covert transport.
Commander Davies said the US sub's size was not an advantage: "It just means you make more noise when you go faster."
He said cooperation with the US submarine force had increased significantly recently. "That has come about because they're interested in the Collins class and in our submarine force generally."
While the Americans run the world's most powerful submarine arm, they acknowledge that changes in international conditions in the past decade and new priorities have left them with tactics to learn from the small Australian submarine arm.
Commander Davies said Australian submariners were used to operating in shallow water. "That's one of the things the Americans are looking towards us for experience in.
"Ten years ago their submarine force was chasing Russian submarines around the deep ocean. Now, as with all submarine forces, it's more focused on closer inshore operations, intelligence collection or working with special forces. They're looking to us as a submarine force which has a long experience in that sort of thing."
The six Collins' combat systems are to be upgraded further and they will get more modern torpedoes. Those the Sheean used in its clashes with the Olympia were developed in the 1970s; the Americans used a far more sophisticated generation.
While smaller than the US nuclear boats, the Collins is one of the world's biggest conventional submarines. It was designed to cover long distances and the Sheean easily reached Hawaii without refuelling.
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ST, dont overdo it... you are pasting peektures like LN does.. Icky man but good job.
Dont worry so much of our PBs, one boat down and the checkbook will open for typhoons to be installed.
The idea of terriorists werent designed as such when the PBs were used.
Pretty sure we can look forward to a fleet renewal (oh the horror!) during the next naval splurge to buy modern PBs that are more suitable for today's threats. We might even just build our own. Worst come to worst build enlarged protectors and mount a chaingun on it with all the accompanying bells and whistles.
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Originally posted by CM06:
ST, dont overdo it... you are pasting peektures like LN does.. Icky man but good job.
Dont worry so much of our PBs, one boat down and the checkbook will open for typhoons to be installed.
The idea of terriorists werent designed as such when the PBs were used.
Pretty sure we can look forward to a fleet renewal (oh the horror!) during the next naval splurge to buy modern PBs that are more suitable for today's threats. We might even just build our own. Worst come to worst build enlarged protectors and mount a chaingun on it with all the accompanying bells and whistles.
Lol don't worry, they're not for you guys to read but for the lion.
If he does not dare to type out his own posts and relies on cutting and pasting media artices and then expecting people to read them as his arguments, he jolly well accept the same thing in reply.
It is apparent that even in cut-and-pasting, he is unable to put any any kind of an argument... talk about getting beaten at his own game!
poor lion!
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aiyah read already enough. i will just ...
+1
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System related defects or/and manpower shortage for frigates and Collins SSK
pl read the tables in opening posting.now u know why only 10
ships can be operated in any day lah!!
Sorry .No improvement in the past 10 years
.....................(Adelaide Class)..... ANZAC...Collins...Patrol .......................Guided missile FFG... FFG.....SSK......Boat
Annual Report 2006/07
Platforms in services--------------4......8..........6.......11
URD(unit ready day)-----------------------------1046....1850......817....3449
Achieved(in days)----------------951....1829......802...??
Substantially achieved(days)---874......1669....583...2427
Platforms avaiable per day(max):2.9.......5.1..........2.2.....9.4
Total:10+9.4 Armidale class Patrol Boat(Coastal guard role)!!
Annual Report 2003/04--below
URD(unit ready day)------------------------------1431..........1447......799....4487
Platforms avaiable per day(max):3.9.......4.0..........2.2.....12
Total:10+12 class Patrol Boat(Coastal guard role)!!
Annual Report 1999/2000--below
URD......................3073(frigates combined)......366....4349
Platforms /day(max):8.4(frigates combined).......1.....11
Total:10+11 class Patrol Boat(Coastal guard role)!!
.....................(Adelaide Class)..... ANZAC...Collins...Patrol .......................Guided missile FFG... FFG.....SSK......Boat
Note: In days for whole class of platform for year ended 30.06.2004 and 2007.defence.gov.au,Annual Report 03/04& 2006/07
http://www.defence.gov.au/publications.cfm
http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/06-07/dar/2006-2007_Defence_DAR_03_v1_s2.pdf
http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/03-04/dar/02_05_outcome2_3.htm
http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/99-00/pbs/99-00s3.pdf
Quote:
URD are the number of days that a force element is available for tasking by the Commander Australian Fleet, either outside of
major maintenance and within planned readiness requirements or in accordance with contracted availability.http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/06-07/dar/2006-2007_Defence_DAR_03_v1_s2.pdf
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LOL, why suddenly shift back to Collins? Lost your appitie for the PV debate?
Cat got your tounge? Suddenly don't know how to answer about how our PVs are not well suited to handle terrorist threats as opposed to the Australian's 25mm autocannon armed ships?
As for your Collins,
Sorry no change, Collins still best SSK in the world, getting armed with ADCAP torpedos, and having the HK capabilities of the Virginia class SSN.
BEST SSK IN THE WORLD
State-of-the-art
A Collins Class submarine is a long-range, multipurpose patrol submarine capable of both short duration coastal missions, and long-duration open sea defensive and offensive operations. The submarines have a patrol endurance of more than two months, most of the time submerged.The Collins Class submarines have all the attributes expected of a state-of-the-art submarine, including high manoeuvrability, low signature patterns, high firing rates, and excellent shock endurance.
They are also adapted to the specific environmental conditions and operational profiles applicable to the Royal Australian Navy.
Largest in the world
With a displacement of 3000 tonnes, the Collins Class submarines are the largest, and without a doubt the most advanced and efficient conventional submarines in the world.Collins class can also land Austalian Special Forces who wrecked havoc in Afganistan!
Force Structure
To celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Australian Special Air Service, the Perth mint has produced the Australian SAS 1957 – 2007 1oz Silver Proof Coin
Special Air Service Regiment (SASR) is a Special Forces regiment modeled on the original British SAS and also drawing on the traditions of the Australian World War II 'Z' Special Force commando unit, as well as the Independent Companies which were active in the South Pacific during the same period. It is based at Campbell Barracks, Swanbourne, Perth, Western Australia and is a unit of the Royal Australian Corps of Infantry, part of the Australian Defense Force. They have been widely regarded as one of the better special forces units in the world; ranking alongside the British SAS/SBS and US Navy SEALs special forces.
The Australian SAS is the crack Regiment revered as the 'eyes and ears' of the Australian Defense Force, and the regimental motto is 'Who dares wins'.
Fully supported by the SAS itself, this spectacular Perth Mint release offers collectors of Australian military commemoratives a magnificent tribute with which to celebrate the Regiment’s many vital contributions throughout the world.
The coin's reverse depicts SAS soldiers in action in a variety of operational contexts. The design, which includes colored elements and the words AUSTRALIAN SAS 1957-2007, also portrays the SAS badge incorporating the words WHO DARES WINS.
Issued as legal tender under the Australian Currency Act 1965, the coin’s obverse depicts the Ian Rank-Broadley effigy of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.
The coin is struck from 1oz of 99.9% pure silver in proof quality with a Coloured Reverse Design and is housed in a stylish presentation case and superbly illustrated shipper
No more than 7,500 of these coins will be released by The Perth Mint and each will be accompanied by a numbered Certificate of Authenticity.
The Australian SAS 1957 – 2007 1oz Silver Proof Coin is going to be a much sought after coin by coin enthusiasts.
Australia also developing Heavyweight ADCAP Torpedo with Americans, making them far in advance of anything the Singapore Navy has.
Project SEA 1429 Phase 2 Replacement Heavyweight Torpedo will acquire a replacement anti-surface warfare (ASuW) and anti-submarine warfare (ASW) heavyweight torpedo for the COLLINS Class submarine. This acquisition is to replace the Mk 48 Mod 4 heavyweight torpedo (HWT) currently in service with the Royal Australian Navy (RAN).
A Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between the Australian and the United States Governments has been established to jointly develop the Mk 48 Advanced Capability (ADCAP) Common Broadband Advanced Sonar System (CBASS) Heavyweight Torpedo. A Joint Project Office (JPO) has been established in Washington DC to manage the CBASS program under an Armaments Cooperative Project arrangement.
The Project Scope includes the acquisition of the weapons, associated logistic support, weapon system interface equipment and transition into service.
The submarines will be progressively upgraded to accommodate the Replacement Heavyweight Torpedo, in conjunction with the Replacement Combat System (SEA 1439 Phase 4A), as part of the submarines' docking program from 2006 through to 2013.
- The upgrade of the Torpedo Maintenance Facility (TMF) at Garden Island , Western Australia was completed in March 2005 following which it entered into a period of training and consolidation prior to Certification in July 2005.
- A Torpedo System Centre was opened at Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO), Edinburgh, SA in July 2004 and a Torpedo Analysis Facility was commissioned in January 2006. This facility will be used to study the performance of the new heavyweight torpedo in a high fidelity, synthetic, controlled environment.
- Mk 48 ADCAP/CBASS Developmental and Operational Testing (DT/OT) was conducted successfully in Australian waters in late 2005 with additional firings being conducted in US waters in March 2006.
- Nautronix Ltd, a Western Australian based company, in cooperation with Project SEA 1429 has developed a portable tracking range for use in shallow water. The range is being used to support developmental and operational test torpedo firings of the new weapon system.
Australian Navy Gets ADCAP Torpedos, Most Advanced Torpedo in Region
MK-48 Torpedo
Torpedoes are self-propelled guided projectiles that operate underwater and are designed to detonate on contact or in proximity to a target. They may be launched from submarines, surface ships, helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft. The three major torpedoes in the Navy inventory are the Mark 48 heavyweight torpedo, the Mark 46 lightweight and the Mark 50 advanced lightweight.
The MK-48 is designed to combat fast, deep-diving nuclear submarines and high performance surface ships. It is carried by all Navy submarines. The improved version, MK-48 ADCAP, is carried by attack submarines, the Ohio class ballistic missile submarines and will be carried by the Seawolf class attack submarines. The MK-48 replaced both the MK-37 and MK-14 torpedoes. The MK-48 has been operational in the US Navy since 1972. MK-48 ADCAP became operational in 1988 and was approved for full production in 1989. The SSN 714 Norfolk fired the first ADCAP torpedo on 23 July 1988, sinking the FORREST SHERMAN class destroyer DD 938 Jonas K. Ingram. MK-48 and MK-48 ADCAP torpedoes can operate with or without wire guidance and use active and/or passive homing. When launched they execute programmed target search, acquisition and attack procedures. Both can conduct multiple reattacks if they miss the target.
A highly capable weapon, the MK 48 can be used against surface ships or submarines, and has been test fired under the Arctic ice pack and in other arduous conditions. The ADCAP version, in comparison with earlier MK 48 torpedoes, has improved target acquisition range, reduced vulnerability to enemy countermeasures, reduced shipboard constraints such as warmup and reactivation time, and enhanced effectiveness against surface ships. The MK 48 is propelled by a piston engine with twin, contra-rotating propellers in a pump jet or shrouded configuration. The engine uses a liquid monopropellant fuel, and the torpedo has a conventional, high-explosive warhead. The MK 48 has a sophisticated guidance system permitting a variety of attack options. As the torpedo leaves the submarine's launch tube a thin wire spins out, electronically linking the submarine and torpedo. This enables an operator in the submarine, with access to the submarine's sensitive sonar systems, initially to guide the torpedo toward the target. This helps the torpedo avoid decoys and jamming devices that might be deployed by the target. The wire is severed and the torpedo's high-powered active/passive sonar guides the torpedo during the final attack.
The MK 48 Mod 5 ADCAP torpedo is an improvement to the MK 48 submarine launched torpedo. It is a heavyweight acoustic homing torpedo with sophisticated sonar and a fuzed warhead. The ADCAP enhancement includes all digital guidance and control systems, digital fuzing systems, and pro-pulsion improvements which add speed, depth, and range capability. The Navy will produce about 1046 MODS ADCAPs, replacing an equivalent number of baseline (Mod 5) ADCAPs, and maintaining the total inventory of ADCAP torpedoes at 1046. One of the major advantages of using readily available technology to develop an updated weapon using the current torpedo body and off the shelf systems resulted in significant savings and reduction in the development time for the ADCAP torpedo. In addition, by using currently installed systems in place for operating and maintaing the MK-48 torpedo very little additional cost is incurred in new facilities for maintenance and repair.
The Navy developed two hardware modifications to ADCAP, called the G&C (Guidance and Control) MOD and the TPU (Torpedo Propulsion Upgrade) MOD. The G&C MOD replaces the obsoles-cent guidance and control set with current technology, improves the acoustic receiver, and adds additional memory and improves processor throughput to handle the expanded software demands anticipated for near term upgrades. The TPU MOD improves the propulsion unit as discussed in the classified version of the FY96 Annual Report. Both modifications were combined into one torpedo, the MK 48 Mod 6 (MODS ADCAP).
Software Block Upgrade III (BU III) is intended to provide a near-term improvement for use in the baseline G&C for improved performance in some key scenarios.
Software Block Upgrade IV is intended to provide a mid-term upgrade for use in the MODS G&C for improved performance in key scenarios as discussed in the classified version of this report. It will use advanced sonar and signal processing algorithms.
One engineering change planned for the MODS ADCAP, the Common Torpedo Development Vehicle (COT-DV), is planned for fleet introduction in the FY01 time frame. COT-DV is a common processor to be used on all advanced U.S. torpedoes, that will use COTS hardware and be significantly more capable than the current MODS G&C. It will initially use BU IV software.
Another hardware upgrade, Common Broadband Advanced Sonar System (CBASS), is planned for IOC in FY04. Additional information about CBASS is contained in the classified version of this report.
The ADCAP torpedo OPEVAL was completed in August 1988, and the B-LRIP report was sent to Congress in December 1988. ADCAP was reported to be operationally effective against certain threats, but not operationally effective against other threats at that time. The system was reported operationally suitable. The Navy subsequently authorized full-rate production, but Congress constrained procurement because of the concerns identified in test reporting. Modifications were implemented by the Navy to improve performance in certain scenarios, upgrade fuzing systems, and improve reliability. These modifications were considered effective. In 1994 a second software upgrade was introduced to improve performance and reliability.
The MODS ADCAP (MK 48 Mod 6), when properly employed, is more effective than the ADCAP torpedo (MK 48 Mod 5). Unfortunately, production MOD 6 ADCAPs have shown a significant vulnerability, differing from the test units. This production problem is typical of problems seen in the initial phases of LRIP. The program office is investigating. DOT&E will continue to follow this.
Performance in some environments of both ADCAP and MODS ADCAP, against certain targets employing advanced tactics and equipment, still needs to be improved. Shortfalls are discussed in the classified version of this report. The program office is aggressively working to upgrade these modes.
The MK 48 ADCAP torpedo R&D program focuses on two specific areas through FY99: Guidance and Control (G&C) software block upgrades and wideband sonar capability. The Chief of Naval Operations continues to stress shallow water (less than 600 feet) as a critical operating area to counter third world diesel electric submarines. Torpedo testing in shallow water has demonstrated that in-service ADCAP has less than full capability in this difficult environment. However, this testing, in conjunction with laboratory simulation efforts, has shown that significant performance improvements can be made by implementing changes to weapon tactics and software algorithms. Development, implementation and testing of these changes is being accomplished under the ADCAP G&C software block upgrade program.
The focus of the MK 48 ADCAP torpedo R&D program for FY99 and out has shifted from being primarily concentrated on Software Block Upgrade efforts to a coordinated hardware/software upgrade for countering evolving threats and maintaining robust performance. Countermeasure (CM) sophistication and availability on the open market directly affects ADCAP kill proficiency and its ability to counter rapidly evolving threats. The Common Broadband Advanced Sonar System (CBASS) program will develop and field a wideband sonar capable of identifying CMs and discriminating them from the target. CBASS received an ACAT III designation on 17 April 1997, with full rate production scheduled to begin in FY04.
The introduction of phased prototyping in FY01 will provide a more rapid technology transition path for incremental torpedo improvements and upgrades (including the development and test of New Technology Concepts from the R&D community (6.2) and contractor Independent Research and Development (IR&D)). This approach will incorporate accelerated in-water testing of the new concepts allowing early Fleet input into future ADCAP upgrades and help to provide the foundation for Next Generation Torpedoes. These efforts will continue torpedo development investment at a lower cost and shorter term than traditional torpedo development programs.
Specifications
Primary Function Heavyweight torpedo for submarines Contractor Gould Power Plant Air Turbine Pump Discharge (ATPD) system;
liquid (Otto) fueled swash plate engine with pumpjet propulsor. Length 19 feet (5.79 meters) Weight 3,434 lbs (1545.3 kg) (MK-48);
3,695 lbs (1662.75 kg) (MK-48 ADCAP) Diameter 21 inches (53.34 centimeters) Range Officially "Greater than 5 miles (8 km)"Claimed 40 kt 55 kt MK-48 44,550 yd 34,430 yd MK-48 ADCAP 54,685 yd 42,530 ydWeapon acquisition range 1600 yards Min/Max ASROC launching ranges 1500 to 12000 yards Speed Officially "Greater than 28 knots (32.2 mph, 51.52 kph)"
Reportedly - 40 - 55 kt.
Actual 55 knots Depth Officially "Greater than 1,200 ft (365.76 meters)"
Reportedly 3,000 ft Search/attack depth settings Minimum 20 yards
Maximum 1500 yards Run characteristics 6-8 minutes
downward Guidance System Wire guided and passive/active acoustic homing Warhead 650 lbs (292.5 kg) high explosive Date Deployed 1972
1988 ADCAP Unit Cost $2.5 million
$3.5 million (?) ADCAPAdvanced Technologies Perfected for Collins class and future Submarine Class
"So what can we expect in the future?" That's a question regularly posed to Defence scientists. It's not an unreasonable question given the public's fascination with technological advances in all fields, let alone defence science.
Yet a question that is asked less frequently, but which is probably far more pertinent is "What's happening now?"
For DSTO, the short answer is "plenty". While DSTO is leading and taking part in many projects that have a long-term focus on future warfare concepts, a substantial proportion of our work is directed towards supporting the current capabilities of Australia's air, naval and land forces, in both training and operational modes.
DSTO has developed a number of key capabilities designed to enhance the current ADF. These capabilities include:
- Through-life support of assets, which involves the development and application of technologies for the through-life support of air, maritime and land platforms.
- Operational analysis, which involves the application of scientific methods to assess the effectiveness of military operations.
- Warfighter support, which involves the provision of direct support to the war- fighter through a mix of modelling and simulation tools combined with expertise in human sciences.
- Acquisition advice, which involves the provision of scientific and technical advice on the acquisition of materiel, as well as acting as technical adviser to Defence during the development of new capabilities and their introduction into service.
One of DSTO's longest-running, continuous projects has been support for the Collins-class submarine. DSTO has been providing vital scientific and technical support for the Collins class submarine since the design was first proposed in 1986.
Much of the focus has been on addressing current capability issues, and our work has resulted in significant benefits, including vastly improved stealth performance as a result of a number of magnetic and acoustic investigations.
Demagnetisation enhancements have achieved low variability in the final platform magnetisation, and have also greatly reduced the amount of required deperming treatment time, resulting in considerable operational cost savings.
DSTO's acoustics work has produced better signature prediction as well as valuable strategies and solutions for management of the acoustic signature.
And, in the combat system, DSTO was instrumental in developing a new open architecture environment which has been of major benefit for the capability.
DSTO's involvement in the F-111 Sole Operator Program (SOP) has also been widely recognised. Among research activities conducted as part of the SOP have been a full-scale tear-down of an F-111 fuselage, full-scale fatigue testing of an F-111 wing, countermeasures trials aimed at reducing the susceptibility of aircraft to infra-red and radar-guided missiles, and the development of a PC-based engine diagnostic and acceptance system that has been installed in the engine-test cells at RAAF Amberley for ground testing the aircraft's TF30 engines.
DSTO's involvement in the SOP is ensuring the safe and effective operation of the F- 111 fleet to its planned withdrawal from service.
An excellent example of support to operations has been the successful conduct of trials by DSTO and the Air Force's Joint Electronic Warfare Operational Support Unit to validate the effectiveness of countermeasures to protect C-130J aircraft against threats like infrared-guided man-portable air defence systems, commonly referred to as shoulder-launched missiles. These trials were part of a rapid acquisition fitment of electronic warfare self-protection equipment. In September, the C-130J departed for Iraq operations and was farewelled by the Minister for Defence, Robert Hill, who acknowledged the success of the rapid acquisition program.
DSTO's expertise in air accident investigation has been called on several times over the years. The organisation provides support to the Directorate of Flying Safety to investigate aircraft accidents and has several key investigators on call to respond immediately.
Central to DSTO's success in accident investigation has been the use of global positioning system technology to map the crash debris over an accident site.
In recent years, our accident investigators have conducted forensic investigations of crashes of Black Hawk helicopters, a Eurocopter Tiger helicopter, a US Marine Corps F/A-18, and a Russian-made Ilyushin IL-76 cargo jet aircraft in East Timor.
One major fear of all submarine and ship personnel is an outbreak of fire, and DSTO has been involved in fire and smoke research since 1989. Our research provides Navy with advice on the measures required to minimise the risk of, and combat the spread of, fire and smoke, as well as of equipment failure. While we conduct some full-scale experiments, most of the research revolves around numerical and salt water modelling.
Numerical modelling involves the use of computational fluid dynamics to study possible fire scenarios, while salt water modelling involves the injection of salt water (the analogue of hot smoke) into fresh water (the analogue of air), and the subsequent study of the resulting behaviour.
Modelling is also a central component of the wide range of DSTO's human factor-related research, which includes human-machine interface design, task workload analysis, predictive modelling and the development of training systems.
There are many more examples of DSTO's work supporting the current ADF; examples that come from all divisions within the organisation.
And therein lies the secret behind DSTO's success: strength through diversity. Deep pockets of technical knowledge exist throughout the organisation, and this knowledge is able to be brought together and drawn on to solve problems.
But it is not just the internal units of DSTO that we rely on to support the ADF. DSTO readily acknowledges that the goal of enhancing the ADF's existing capabilities a wide range of parties, including those in industry and academia.
We have forged strong relationships with companies and institutions that have the appropriate intellectual capabilities and expertise.
DSTO is working to further encourage Australian industry to become a key player in the development of the required support.
Wherever Australian military personnel are operating or training, wherever Australian military platforms and technology are being used, DSTO's fingerprints can be detected. While research and development into future warfare technologies and practices is critical, the development of solutions to today's problems can never be underestimated.
Dr Sare is Director of the Platforms Sciences Laboratory, DSTO
The role of seeking and destroying an enemy submarine is one of the most difficult faced by Australia's six new Collins class submarines. The success off Hawaii in August has boosted morale dramatically among submarine crews who have had to endure years of hearing their boats condemned as noisy and vulnerable.
A 1999 report by the then CSIRO chief, Malcolm McIntosh, and former BHP managing director John Prescott said the Collins' combat system should be junked, the vessels were noisy and vulnerable to attack, their engines broke down regularly, a badly shaped hull and fin made too much disturbance when they moved at speed under water, the view from the periscope was blurry, the communications system outdated and the propellers were likely to crack.
Commander Steve Davies, chief-of-staff in the navy's submarine force, said that during the past three years those problems had been fixed to the point where the submarines were able to match the best of the US Navy's giant underwater fleet.
During its mock attacks on the Olympia and on two US destroyers, the Sheean fired 28 torpedoes. Commander Davies said "a respectable percentage" of shots Sheean fired at Olympia were hits that would have destroyed the powerful US vessel.
Commodore Davies, Australia's most experienced Collins commander, said the two vessels were very evenly matched. The submarines also practised landing special forces.
The exercises provided a crucial test for the Australian submarine, which has been as much criticised at home as it has been feted abroad.
The Olympia, 110 metres long and 12 metres across the beam, is twice the displacement of the Sheean, at 80 metres by eight metres. The Olympia carries up to 120 crew; the Sheean 45. Many of the Americans are engineers caring for their reactor.
The Collins is powered by diesel and electric motors and its roles include undersea warfare - finding and destroying other submarines - destroying enemy warships and merchant ships, surveillance and intelligence collection, support for special forces and covert transport.
Commander Davies said the US sub's size was not an advantage: "It just means you make more noise when you go faster."
He said cooperation with the US submarine force had increased significantly recently. "That has come about because they're interested in the Collins class and in our submarine force generally."
While the Americans run the world's most powerful submarine arm, they acknowledge that changes in international conditions in the past decade and new priorities have left them with tactics to learn from the small Australian submarine arm.
Commander Davies said Australian submariners were used to operating in shallow water. "That's one of the things the Americans are looking towards us for experience in.
"Ten years ago their submarine force was chasing Russian submarines around the deep ocean. Now, as with all submarine forces, it's more focused on closer inshore operations, intelligence collection or working with special forces. They're looking to us as a submarine force which has a long experience in that sort of thing."
The six Collins' combat systems are to be upgraded further and they will get more modern torpedoes. Those the Sheean used in its clashes with the Olympia were developed in the 1970s; the Americans used a far more sophisticated generation.
While smaller than the US nuclear boats, the Collins is one of the world's biggest conventional submarines. It was designed to cover long distances and the Sheean easily reached Hawaii without refuelling.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Lol don't worry, they're not for you guys to read but for the lion.
If he does not dare to type out his own posts and relies on cutting and pasting media artices and then expecting people to read them as his arguments, he jolly well accept the same thing in reply.
It is apparent that even in cut-and-pasting, he is unable to put any any kind of an argument... talk about getting beaten at his own game!
poor lion!
nice picture.
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Originally posted by noisylion:
System related defects or/and wrong weapon loadout for RSN Patrol Boats
Why are our PV's not optimized for COIN/terror ops?
It has been 7 years since 9/11 and even more since USS Cole
Why are we still dunt can optimized face real threat to surface elements?
Weapons of PVs not realistic n unable to attack fast, small terrorist suicide craft
Anti-missile: Mistral surface-to-air missiles
Anti-submarine: Eurotorp A244-S Mod 3 torpedoes (first six ships)
Guns: Oto Melara 76 mm gunCost of running these systems are also high!
Such a ship is too clumsly for proper COIN/terror ops, also lack the tonnage and firepower to engage larger conventional elements!
jack of no trade, also master of none!
Dunt can even avoid collision with slow container ship despite "high speed" false advertising?
fiberglass hull ill-suited for taking damage, but also ship 2 big and wrong weapons to take on small terrorist boat
USS Cole big ship, already badly damaged in attack, similar attack will totally destroy PV!
Unlike RSN, Oz made good choice in using pratical, cheaper n proven system.
25mm autocannon
MK 38 25-mm machine gun
The 25mm Machine Gun System (MGS) Mk 38 is a 25mm automatic gun system that provides ownship with defensive and offensive gunfire capability for the engagement of a variety of surface targets. It is designed to provide close range defense against patrol boats, swimmers, floating mines, and various targets ashore including; enemy personnel, lightly armored vehicles and terrorist threats. One crewman is required for operation and two for maintenance.
This system consists of the M242 auto-cannon and the Mk 88 machine gun mount. The M242 auto-cannon is an externally powered, dual-feed, single-barrel weapon which may be fired in semi-automatic or automatic modes. In the automatic mode, the rate of fire is approximately 175 rounds per minute. The M242 does not depend on gases for operation but instead utilizes an electric motor, located in the receiver, to drive all the moving parts inside the cannon. Ammunition feeding, loading and firing, extraction, and ejection are all done by the motor. The Mk 88 machine gun mount train and elevation is controlled manually by the gun operator. In the event of a major malfunction, the M242 auto-cannon can be removed from the mount and another auto-cannon installed in five minutes by two people.
Specifications
Contractor Designed and assembled by Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center;
components procured from various contractors Range 2700 yards (2.5 km) Guidance System Unstabilized, manually trained and elevated Type of Fire Single shot; 175 rounds per minute automatic Caliber 25 mm (1 inch) Date Deployed 1986This is smart, cheap, n effective way to fight terrorism in Oz seas.
1 25mm round will destroy terror boat with one hit, same like 76mm round but many times cheaper and 25mm cannon can shoot 200 rounds a minute!
76mm dunt can! heaver gun is slower and also much less accucrate on small and fast target
this is call use common sense! not everything bigger is better for a job! Oz made good choice here!
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Originally posted by noisylion:
Also Oz design more stable ship!
Common criticism of RSN Victory class ship is that they r top heavy n prone to overturn in heavy seas, hard turns... etc etc but media cover this up. but still report leak out:
"The corvettes are noted for their tall mast, making them top-heavy compared to ships of similar class."
During naval exercises with other countries, their navies noted the Victory's class lack of stability even in basic sea conditions!
"The Victories are appallingly top heavy, in any sort of slop they roll worse than a Adams class DDG.
I watched one making very uncomfortable way during a Kakadu exercise some years back, I was on a Fremantle, and while not exactly comfortable we were rolling and pitching far less than they were and making the same speed."
RSN counter say cos RSN sail in calm waters around Singapore, but this means that RSN cannot fight battles effectively in open seas if need be! Especially now when nature of naval battle has changed!How can such a basic design flaw be missed by ST Marine despite millions spent?
Even small Oz ship can operate up to sea state 5! Open ocean!
Cheap, pratical and useful design!
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Collins class SSK almost sank to sea bottom
enough lah.I admit Collins SSK is the most powerful SSK in the
world.Though every day,oz can send only 2 to sea for past 7 years.
Pl note 1st SSk launched in 1996 and NOT A SINGLE ONE
of the 6 subs declared Full Operation Capability !!
Upgrading every year and at every part of the ships.
Have u seen any platform not even achieved FOC and become
the most powerful in the class?
If it is declared FOC,it can be used to fight Aliens!!!
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21285627-31477,00.html
say
''The Dechaineux was only 20 seconds from sinking to the ocean floor after a seawater hose broke while the submarine was at its deepest diving depth.
The accident, revealed in The Australian in July 2005, caused more than 12,000 litres of sea water to flood into the submarine in seven seconds, almost drowning sailor Geordie Bunting..
Defence last month contracted a Texas-based company, Oil States Industries, to design new flexible seawater hoses for the submarines that can absorb greater water pressure.
It hopes the new hoses will be ready as early as next year, allowing the Collins-class fleet to safely return to the diving depths it operated at before the Dechaineux accident.''
OMG!www.asc.com.au is the sole Sub designer and manufactuer
in oz.But now it need US co. to designa and make a hose to replace
current one in all Collins !!what a xxx.The hose should not be used
in the first place!!
ARMIDALE PB
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australias-hazardous-frigate-upgrade-04586/#more
says:
This set would be supported by the new 56m Armidale Class Offshore Patrol Vessels, which are suitable for Coast Guard type duties throughout the South Pacific and very little else.
http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/07-08/pbs/2007-2008_Defence_PBS_09_s2.pdf
say
''The main risk to achieving operational availability is the current fuel system unreliability, and is mitigated by rigorous, collaborative management of the remediation plans by the project, the Navy and the prime contractor.''
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/301226
say
20 Allegations of PB
Why oz commit small mistake likse wrong pipes in sub and fuel
sys on PB and fuel contamination in some naval ships.
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Why oz commit small mistake likse wrong pipes in sub and fuel
Can't help but reply with this:
Why Sg commit small mistake like letting Mas Selamat escape from a high security detention centre?Military area:
Why Sg commit small mistake like crashing a naval ship into a indonesian ship? -
Ok. The points are all wrong.
The PVs are NOT for COIN. They are simply naval eyes.
It's unfair to say that the PVs suck because the RSN ships are mostly optimized for coastal defence.
And if you keep saying that the PVs are fast and unmanouverable, you must be mad. They are slow and manouverable in fact. With a 50m turn radius and max speed of 20+ knots.
It's unfair to compare both navies.
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And I simply dont understand why people keep saying that the ship + RSN personnel sucks = collision.
IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU.
Never underestimate that. And if you guys dont know, these so called slow container vessels often cruise at 20 knots in open waters. And that's a wee bit faster than a sampan threat.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
And I simply dont understand why people keep saying that the ship + RSN personnel sucks = collision.
IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU.
Never underestimate that. And if you guys dont know, these so called slow container vessels often cruise at 20 knots in open waters. And that's a wee bit faster than a sampan threat.
i didn't say that
i'm commenting about mistakes
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Originally posted by eagle:
i didn't say that
i'm commenting about mistakes
Anything can happen.Honestly some of you guys give me the impression that what you guys know are paper-knowledge.
The ST can only tell you so much. You wont know what is it like unless you are in the thick of it.
And the RSN was never meant to fight in OPEN seas anyway. So I cant understand why the comparison.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
WRONG, our PV will have serious issues trying to engage the new era of threats. The 76mm is too slow and clumsy to effectively engage such targets, especially if there's a large number of them moving in evasive patterns at 40 knots.
What you need is a REAL weapon, not some 76mm hammer.
What you need is a weapon that is designed to kill such new threats, not make fancy water splashes that mostly miss them.
25mm is a REAL Weapon with proven lethality, it is used in the fearsome Spooky gunship as well:
This is what it can do:
Threat facing PV from terrorism will come from small, possibly fast craft like the ones used to attack USS Cole:
Weapons our PV have like the 76mm gun, Mistral Sam and Whitehead Torpedos are not designed for such a threat but engagement of larger craft.
What we need is a rapid firing, small caliber weapon that can engage at smaller, faster targets at high speed and shred them:
Even the Americans have learnt their lessons and installed them in their surface combatants!
United States of America
25 mm/87 (1") Mark 38 Machine Gun System
Friend, 40 knots too nee pooh lah....let's make it 20+ knots and weaving pattern. Good enough hor?
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
Anything can happen.Honestly some of you guys give me the impression that what you guys know are paper-knowledge.
The ST can only tell you so much. You wont know what is it like unless you are in the thick of it.
And the RSN was never meant to fight in OPEN seas anyway. So I cant understand why the comparison.
In case you misunderstood, pls allow me to rephrase it in your words. For the following statement:
Why oz commit small mistake likse wrong pipes in sub and fuel
it is a case of, as you said, "anything can happen".
That is what I meant. No where in my post did I make the claim that
ship + RSN personnel sucks = collision
Pls do not twist the meaning of my post. Thanks.
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Originally posted by eagle:
In case you misunderstood, pls allow me to rephrase it in your words. For the following statement:
it is a case of, as you said, "anything can happen".
That is what I meant. No where in my post did I make the claim that
Pls do not twist the meaning of my post. Thanks.
No offence meant.I wasnt referring to you.
I used your quote simply because it was relevant.
-
Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
No offence meant.I wasnt referring to you.
I used your quote simply because it was relevant.
then must be me misunderstood you referring to me ba
-
Originally posted by eagle:
then must be me misunderstood you referring to me ba
Sorry. For confusing you. -
Originally posted by noisylion:
Fuel contanimation and wrong pipes are problems that can be fixed and have been fixed.
but top heavy design is vital design flaw that is systemic failure!
Until now problem still not fixed!
"The corvettes are noted for their tall mast, making them top-heavy compared to ships of similar class."
During naval exercises with other countries, their navies noted the Victory's class lack of stability even in basic sea conditions!
"The Victories are appallingly top heavy, in any sort of slop they roll worse than a Adams class DDG.
I watched one making very uncomfortable way during a Kakadu exercise some years back, I was on a Fremantle, and while not exactly comfortable we were rolling and pitching far less than they were and making the same speed."RSN cannot keep up with foreign navy stability during exercies! Oh gosh how shameful!
How come other nations can design normal corvette with non-top heavy ST Marine cannot?
Worse in severe sea states the corvette is at risk from capsizing! this danger is exposed all the time and cannot be fixed like a pipe!
This can happen!
"In December 1944, the U.S. Navy met a greater foe than the Japanese -- Mother Nature. A typhoon with 100 mile-an-hour winds caught Admiral Bull Halsey's fleet by surprise. The storm battered 2000-ton destroyers, capsizing three of them and killing 790 sailors. Six months later, another damaging typhoon struck his fleet. As a result, Halsey nearly lost his command."
This happen to normal ship, how will top-heavy Victory fare? Worse!
This means that if got future enemy blockage SG searoutes further out in open rough sea, RSN Covette dunt can fight effectively!
Which first world country only have navy ships that must stick to calm weather and avoid storms?
This means that even with slight flooding from damage the SG Covette is already danger from capsize!
After spending millions of dollars to build these ships is this acceptable?
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ST, now u sound like him....
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Originally posted by pigsticker:
ST, now u sound like him....
Note this person called "noisylion" was the one who made the post.It seems to me noisylion is a interesting person who is exactly like lionnoisy, except he supports the Australians at all costs.
It will be fun to see how the two of them interact.