SAR-21 on Popular Mechanics
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double post
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Due to out small island and lack of depth in our defense - if there is a war - we be hit - just how badly ... ? I kind of wonder what make you so sure where your SAR-21 is kept will never be hit ?
What makes you think that if your SAR-21 is hit that getting a new weapon is the least of your problems?
Truth is if an enemy is attacking singapore and actually has the time and effort to go after small-arms assets it means that they more or less have total domination of our country and that the SAF has been caught with their pants down.
Given this level of surprise, it is doubtful the mysterious weapon crates of yours will be untouched... in fact any smart enemy would probably go after things like Mandai UAF first before going down the list to hitting your personal weapon.
Once again you put the cart before the horse.
If we have to fight a war we are screwed !!! If you can get a hand on a brand new SAR-21 in the middle of the chao - god is kind to you !!!
Hey, why not get a brand SheVa antilander tank that shoots nuclear rounds to go with it? You are talking in fantasy I am talking in hard fact. You go on and on about things like factory-zero while I point out that in practice this thing is hardly important in most situations and that the more basic things like inability to fight at night and a lously default scope are more pressing issues.
Your powers of logic it seems, is not kind to you.
I didn't say that sar-21 features don't work once it gets even slightly used. You are the one that twisting words again to say that.
Wrong, what I am saying is that there is nothing special about the SAR-21 factory zero, given it is common practice in the modern AR industry to factory zero their weapons in the first place (hence it's not even an advantage to begin with), as well as the fact that arms manufacturers do not give their weapons factory zero in case the soldier does not have time to zero his weapon, that's pretty rubbish.
Not to mention pointing out the unreality of you trying to construct your point for factory zero based on the event that you have to go to war without being issued a personal weapon video game style because your weapon was magically bombed.
Basically you are trying to argue for putting a rollcage and five-point harness on a tricycle because one day the tricycle might go over a cliff.
LOL.
You're messing yourself up, you betrayed yourself when
Are you sure your SAR-21 is just slightly used. LOL i doubt so !!!
Is it fair to compare a scope on SAr-21 to m16 iron sight - why don't you compare Sar-21 to M16 with scope ! We have M16 that been mounted scope - we should have issue you that - think you will not scream on SAR-21 any more .First and foremost the SAR-21 I was using was one of the later production versions that was improved after the terrible QC compliants that ST got from the units they first introduced the SAR.
Secondly, when I was in NS, the SAR was not even in service for 5 years, in addition to the recent make of the weapon, as well as the requirement to pass FFF, means that the weapons themselves are new and certainly less then 5 years old. Contrast this to the M-16s that we also used beside them that were much older.
Thirdly being a frontline unit in 3rd Guards, there must be a redcon status to be achieved as opposed to training schools which can afford to use beat up weapons. This means that the weapons we used were supposed to be the cream of the crop, with only the warstock reserve being newer then that. I hardly think achieving retcon can be done by using training hand-me-down stock.
Even more so those guys in 6th SIR doing actual POI ops, are those people using beat-up-hand-me-downs?
So beat-up-hand-me-downs? Prehaps an "officer" in SIW might see more of them LOL.
And what has this to do with scopes and iron sights? You are talking about "factory zero" no?
So you telling me your handme down SAR-21 features don't work once it gets even slightly used. - good think we now know the problem is you !
As I said, I am not sure what you are talking about except you are desperately trying to imagine that the fact that factory zeroing is actually not an advantage by fantasizing that all people who have a beef with the SAR are using beat-up-hand-me-downs.
Is there any other person the wolf can fault for being unable to escape the hunter except that the fact that his own stories are just not making sense?
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By the way Mark V and Mark IV are even more lasting then M16 - base on the theory - we should issue them to you instead !!!
Avoding the question again eh?
Hmm, the point is simple and you are trying your best not to answer it because it's obvious that you are running up a dead end by trying to bring "factory zero" to it's extreme.
The point is, despite your "rah rah" about factory zero in reality this thing is not only not unique (the Tavor, G36C, as well as virtually any self-respecting small arms manufacturer have this feature as well), it actually has very little utility in modern war.
What you have tried to do is to construct a bizzare an unlikely case for factory zero using vauge and ambigious examples and then present them as the reality of things. The truth is even if our warstock was bombed and we had to get fresh weapons, time would be spent doing field zeroing before we actually go into ops with them (number one rule of ops is to prepare as much as possible). The only way your (non-unique) factory zeroing factor becomes an advantage is when you have to just grab a weapon enemy-at-the-gates style and chiong at the enemy.
Of which I would say, this situtation is so unlikely not to mention bizzare that if you should ever find yourself in it, it's probably better that you shoot a certain NSman officer Storywolf and join the enemy instead of going on such a plan.
In fact the idea of factory zero is to cut down on in-the-box range time spent on zeroing and to this it works pretty well. But to bring it that far and say that the SAR-21 does not need to be zeroed is rubbish, and additionally trying to say that the feature is good by inventing amazing senarios is futher rubbish. And it's even more rubbish to say that the factory-zero offers the SAR-21 over other modern infantry firearms because virtually all firearms in the generation of the SAR-21 are manfactured with factory zero, it's such a common practice that it's somewhat amazing that STK would want to advertise it as a feature at all, and more amazing that storywolf would actually believe it.
But then again it's not too surprising coming from him...
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
What makes you think that if your SAR-21 is hit that getting a new weapon is the least of your problems?
Truth is if an enemy is attacking singapore and actually has the time and effort to go after small-arms assets it means that they more or less have total domination of our country and that the SAF has been caught with their pants down.
Given this level of surprise, it is doubtful the mysterious weapon crates of yours will be untouched... in fact any smart enemy would probably go after things like Mandai UAF first before going down the list to hitting your personal weapon.
Once again you put the cart before the horse.
Hey, why not get a brand SheVa antilander tank that shoots nuclear rounds to go with it? You are talking in fantasy I am talking in hard fact. You go on and on about things like factory-zero while I point out that in practice this thing is hardly important in most situations and that the more basic things like inability to fight at night and a lously default scope are more pressing issues.
Your powers of logic it seems, is not kind to you.
Wrong, what I am saying is that there is nothing special about the SAR-21 factory zero, given it is common practice in the modern AR industry to factory zero their weapons in the first place (hence it's not even an advantage to begin with), as well as the fact that arms manufacturers do not give their weapons factory zero in case the soldier does not have time to zero his weapon, that's pretty rubbish.
Not to mention pointing out the unreality of you trying to construct your point for factory zero based on the event that you have to go to war without being issued a personal weapon video game style because your weapon was magically bombed.
Basically you are trying to argue for putting a rollcage and five-point harness on a tricycle because one day the tricycle might go over a cliff.
LOL.
You're messing yourself up, you betrayed yourself when
First and foremost the SAR-21 I was using was one of the later production versions that was improved after the terrible QC compliants that ST got from the units they first introduced the SAR.
Secondly, when I was in NS, the SAR was not even in service for 5 years, in addition to the recent make of the weapon, as well as the requirement to pass FFF, means that the weapons themselves are new and certainly less then 5 years old. Contrast this to the M-16s that we also used beside them that were much older.
Thirdly being a frontline unit in 3rd Guards, there must be a redcon status to be achieved as opposed to training schools which can afford to use beat up weapons. This means that the weapons we used were supposed to be the cream of the crop, with only the warstock reserve being newer then that. I hardly think achieving retcon can be done by using training hand-me-down stock.
Even more so those guys in 6th SIR doing actual POI ops, are those people using beat-up-hand-me-downs?
So beat-up-hand-me-downs? Prehaps an "officer" in SIW might see more of them LOL.
And what has this to do with scopes and iron sights? You are talking about "factory zero" no?
As I said, I am not sure what you are talking about except you are desperately trying to imagine that the fact that factory zeroing is actually not an advantage by fantasizing that all people who have a beef with the SAR are using beat-up-hand-me-downs.
Is there any other person the wolf can fault for being unable to escape the hunter except that the fact that his own stories are just not making sense?
When enemy bombard - of course they will go after all type targets !!! How many airfield we have - of course next is camps ... !!! we don't have that much miliary camps on the list.
Of course we have stock piles which is available when the time we need.
LOL obviously - cream of the crop ? maybe no so - here you complaining you given lousy rifles - maybe you not really the cream of the crop.....!!! Since you cannot even keep your rifle in good condition !!! -
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Avoding the question again eh?
Hmm, the point is simple and you are trying your best not to answer it because it's obvious that you are running up a dead end by trying to bring "factory zero" to it's extreme.
The point is, despite your "rah rah" about factory zero in reality this thing is not only not unique (the Tavor, G36C, as well as virtually any self-respecting small arms manufacturer have this feature as well), it actually has very little utility in modern war.
What you have tried to do is to construct a bizzare an unlikely case for factory zero using vauge and ambigious examples and then present them as the reality of things. The truth is even if our warstock was bombed and we had to get fresh weapons, time would be spent doing field zeroing before we actually go into ops with them (number one rule of ops is to prepare as much as possible). The only way your (non-unique) factory zeroing factor becomes an advantage is when you have to just grab a weapon enemy-at-the-gates style and chiong at the enemy.
Of which I would say, this situtation is so unlikely not to mention bizzare that if you should ever find yourself in it, it's probably better that you shoot a certain NSman officer Storywolf and join the enemy instead of going on such a plan.
In fact the idea of factory zero is to cut down on in-the-box range time spent on zeroing and to this it works pretty well. But to bring it that far and say that the SAR-21 does not need to be zeroed is rubbish, and additionally trying to say that the feature is good by inventing amazing senarios is futher rubbish. And it's even more rubbish to say that the factory-zero offers the SAR-21 over other modern infantry firearms because virtually all firearms in the generation of the SAR-21 are manfactured with factory zero, it's such a common practice that it's somewhat amazing that STK would want to advertise it as a feature at all, and more amazing that storywolf would actually believe it.
But then again it's not too surprising coming from him...
hello if enemy already bomb your camps !!! by the time people can the war stock reach you !!! What do you think enemy is doing - he taking a fucking coffee break !!! He is definitly have been moving at your damn gate !!! Nuts !!!
it is more then factory zeroing - it have to do with our sight which auto lead our eye to do correction.
Please refer to gun expert - David Crane - from defense review magazine. ST have been on road shows in US - they do not do zeroing there, people just shoot and shoot and are able to hit target - please explain that ! How they do it ? Also David himself visited the factory - just pick up one of the new random rifle and head to range - without zeroing he is able to hit his targets !!! As a gun expert - he is happy with it. That where the beauty of the special sight. Are you more qualified then him a professional gun expert ?
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LOL obviously - cream of the crop ? maybe no so - here you complaining you given lousy rifles - maybe you not really the cream of the crop.....!!! Since you cannot even keep your rifle in good condition !!!
You're making a circular argument, instead of considering and addressing the points of your opponent's argument you are trying to divert it by creating a false assumption to divert the merit of your opponent's testimony... this is a very basic and serious flaw of logic.
Ie. your argument is similar to something like this:
A: "The SAR-21 is good, only stupid people claim the SAR-21 is lously"
B: "Why are these people stupid?"
A: "Well, they claim the SAR-21 is lously"
In this case, note that A is trying to disprove the less-then-favourable testimony of people on the SAR-21 by claiming that their testimony is unreliable because they are stupid.
However when asked about why they are like that, A would claim that unreliability comes from the fact that they give unfavourable testimonies on the SAR-21, which of course does nothing to prove his first statement in the first place!
This is circular reasoning, a basic fallacy that I am afraid that in your haste to prove something ambigious like weapon quality, you have commited Storywolf.
In any case, are you saying 3rd Guards and 6th SIR, units that need to be on high redcon at all times are using worn out weapons or that they are not "cream of the crop?"
LOL, self-pwnage by storywolf again.
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When enemy bombard - of course they will go after all type targets !!! How many airfield we have - of course next is camps ... !!! we don't have that much miliary camps on the list.
Of course we have stock piles which is available when the time we needWhat are you talking about?
What makes you think the enemy will not hit your stockpiles of "fresh" weapons, the "fresh" weapons are classified as noncombatants under your laws of conflict is it?
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hello if enemy already bomb your camps !!! by the time people can the war stock reach you !!! What do you think enemy is doing - he taking a fucking coffee break !!! He is definitly have been moving at your damn gate !!! Nuts !!!
This is a big paragraph of plenty of exclaimations and very poorly english, really sad for an SAF "officer".
Firstly can you highlight the weapon distribution plan of the SAF in such an eventuality or are you pulling it out of your behind like most of the things you've come up with in military nuts?
Secondly if our AA defences, one of the densest in the world, can be penetrated, especially around our bases and our initial warstock taken out, what makes you think you can even get your new weapon from the reserve warstock without suffering a similar fate?
it is more then factory zeroing - it have to do with our sight which auto lead our eye to do correction.
LOL this is a pretty rubbish statement. Compared to sights like ACOG or even the British SUSAT sight the SAR-21 sight is pretty primitive.
Please qualify yourself, what do you mean by "our sight which auto lead our eye to do correction"
Do you have a "storywolf internal logic check which auto lead him to do basic logic correction?"
Please refer to gun expert - David Crane - from defense review magazine. ST have been on road shows in US - they do not do zeroing there, people just shoot and shoot and are able to hit target - please explain that ! How they do it ? Also David himself visited the factory - just pick up one of the new random rifle and head to range - without zeroing he is able to hit his targets !!! As a gun expert - he is happy with it. That where the beauty of the special sight. Are you more qualified then him a professional gun expert ?
Plese refer to testimonies of SAF soldiers who actually use the product in field conditions.
In any case you answered your own question, they were using fresh, off the line rifles. The whole crux of your argument falters because everyone in here is pointing out that no matter what, eventually the factory zero will slip once the rifle gets enough typical use, and of course to truly take advantage of the rifle, you got to optimize it by zeroing it anyway.
If you are not a bad shot, you should be able to hit targets with the factory zero on a fresh weapon, this is hardly a surprise. We are not arguing that the factory zero does not work, just that it is far less useful then you are trying to make it out to be given that even under moderate useage the weapon itself will need to be rezeroed in time.
In fact you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, do you need me to post the testimonies of other gun experts who are less then happy then the SAR-21 when they were evaluating it for export? And also the reason why it has not found much export while it's twin, the TAVOR is leaps and bounds ahead of it?
Heard of the case one evaluator refered to the rifle as "worthless for the artic role", not because it jammed or something but because something as basic as the fire selector could not be operated with gloves?
So what you going to do now? Argue that global warming will eventually make the SAR-21 useful in such situtations just like magical bombs and shells can penetrate our AA and counterbattery defence that seek out our initial warstock will spare our reserve warstock and allow us a chance to use factory zero?
Nice try, but no cigar.
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Something interesting for everyone. Thail soldiers with the SAR-21. Photo posted by oathwn09 @ militaryphotos.net
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i spotted like 2 SAR21 in the pics ~~
most of them are still using M16 with short mag ~~~~
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Originally posted by gaoxingdcf07:
i spotted like 2 SAR21 in the pics ~~
most of them are still using M16 with short mag ~~~~
i spotted 4.The M-16s are without mag.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
This is a big paragraph of plenty of exclaimations and very poorly english, really sad for an SAF "officer".
Firstly can you highlight the weapon distribution plan of the SAF in such an eventuality or are you pulling it out of your behind like most of the things you've come up with in military nuts?
Secondly if our AA defences, one of the densest in the world, can be penetrated, especially around our bases and our initial warstock taken out, what makes you think you can even get your new weapon from the reserve warstock without suffering a similar fate?
LOL this is a pretty rubbish statement. Compared to sights like ACOG or even the British SUSAT sight the SAR-21 sight is pretty primitive.
Please qualify yourself, what do you mean by "our sight which auto lead our eye to do correction"
Do you have a "storywolf internal logic check which auto lead him to do basic logic correction?"
Plese refer to testimonies of SAF soldiers who actually use the product in field conditions.
In any case you answered your own question, they were using fresh, off the line rifles. The whole crux of your argument falters because everyone in here is pointing out that no matter what, eventually the factory zero will slip once the rifle gets enough typical use, and of course to truly take advantage of the rifle, you got to optimize it by zeroing it anyway.
If you are not a bad shot, you should be able to hit targets with the factory zero on a fresh weapon, this is hardly a surprise. We are not arguing that the factory zero does not work, just that it is far less useful then you are trying to make it out to be given that even under moderate useage the weapon itself will need to be rezeroed in time.
In fact you are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, do you need me to post the testimonies of other gun experts who are less then happy then the SAR-21 when they were evaluating it for export? And also the reason why it has not found much export while it's twin, the TAVOR is leaps and bounds ahead of it?
Heard of the case one evaluator refered to the rifle as "worthless for the artic role", not because it jammed or something but because something as basic as the fire selector could not be operated with gloves?
So what you going to do now? Argue that global warming will eventually make the SAR-21 useful in such situtations just like magical bombs and shells can penetrate our AA and counterbattery defence that seek out our initial warstock will spare our reserve warstock and allow us a chance to use factory zero?
Nice try, but no cigar.
You are saying our AA is densest in the world - 100% cannot penetrate ? Hello - people so near to us - shoot artilliry rounds - you tell me how to intercept arty rounds !!! ? Think you have worst thinking then lionnoisy !
Popular Mechanics are not dumb - they did their homework before they publish !!
As you have asked
From Janes Defense magazine - http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/idr/idr000531_2_n.shtml
The reticle of the SAR-21 sight is such that it also leads the shooter's eye naturally to the target, another advantage which will certainly inspire soldier confidence in the rifle because it enables him to quickly acquire and hit targets to the limit of the rifle's effective range. We were impressed not only with the simplicity of the sighting system, but with the ability to achieve a high percentage of rapid-fire hits at 300m without any zeroing whatsoever
Would not operate with gloves ? - Seem those folks can sure operate with gloves. As someone from guard unit - i am sure you use gloves often - tell me frankly - Did you have a hell of problem - fire selector with gloves on ?
Ok good - post me the real gun experts that is less then happy with SAR-21 ! Yes there is a few who feel that selector would have been better if it was there and this - but those are minor things - which they too say - it is good to have but all on the whole still think overall - it is a good rifle. Go ahead - show me some respectable real gun expert - that say that overall it is not a good rifle.
If your view on export - you seem to say - that if it did not export that well mean it is not that good - that mean if it export well = it is very good . Strange - you seem to have slam that very ideal in the discussion on 40mm grenade rounds, when someone told you that singapore is the world lead in 40mm grenade ... !!!
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lol internet arguements.
the chairborne and the armchair commando dukes it out!
ZOMG LOL.
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You are saying our AA is densest in the world - 100% cannot penetrate ? Hello - people so near to us - shoot artilliry rounds - you tell me how to intercept arty rounds !!! ? Think you have worst thinking then lionnoisy !
Lol, so you are saying that the SAF is not going to employ forward defence to push the enemy out of range of bombarding Singapore? Are you saying that we're going to camp in Singapore and trade counterbattery fire with them?
In fact if enemy arty can reach Singapore, it means that the SAF is already in very bad shape.
Obviously you have no idea how the SAF operates.
Apparently the enemy in your war will only aim for our SAR-21s and we'll magically need to use our factory zeros.
Whose thinking, which is narrow and refuses to view any other possibility other then his own limited fantasy is more like lionnoisy?
Would not operate with gloves ? - Seem those folks can sure operate with gloves. As someone from guard unit - i am sure you use gloves often - tell me frankly - Did you have a hell of problem - fire selector with gloves on ?
Hello, you cannot tell the difference between artic warfare and normal warfare?
You want to wear your normal gloves in -20 degree weather ah? Good luck "officer".
You apparently did not do your homework, and best your pictures are wrong.
The SAR-21 was excluded from the Artic Warfare selection for precisely this reason, it was impossible to operate efficently with cold-weather equipment.
And glowing reviews all around by people from other nations? Hmmm...
Bingo! At least in winter conditions the SAR21 proved to be rubbish. The Norwegian army tested it for a couple of weeks before it was thrown out along with the AUG. The only reason it was even in the trials was because the "politically correct" wing of parliament wanted something "exotic" in the trials. AFAIK, it's now down to the G36KV and the F2000.
So you popular mechnics what point?
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Hey I did'nt know that Popular Mechanics is a gun magazine !
Hey does'nt STK pass their best SAR21s to the expert gun reviewers to test out their wares - I guess they do - no surprises SAR21s reviewed will be zeroed & will hold zero for at least the duration of the test.
How nice to think that any potential aggressor will play by SAF rules of forward strategy.
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Originally posted by storywolf:
You are saying our AA is densest in the world - 100% cannot penetrate ? Hello - people so near to us - shoot artilliry rounds - you tell me how to intercept arty rounds !!! ? Think you have worst thinking then lionnoisy !
Popular Mechanics are not dumb - they did their homework before they publish !!
As you have asked
From Janes Defense magazine - http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/idr/idr000531_2_n.shtml
The reticle of the SAR-21 sight is such that it also leads the shooter's eye naturally to the target, another advantage which will certainly inspire soldier confidence in the rifle because it enables him to quickly acquire and hit targets to the limit of the rifle's effective range. We were impressed not only with the simplicity of the sighting system, but with the ability to achieve a high percentage of rapid-fire hits at 300m without any zeroing whatsoever
Would not operate with gloves ? - Seem those folks can sure operate with gloves. As someone from guard unit - i am sure you use gloves often - tell me frankly - Did you have a hell of problem - fire selector with gloves on ?
Ok good - post me the real gun experts that is less then happy with SAR-21 ! Yes there is a few who feel that selector would have been better if it was there and this - but those are minor things - which they too say - it is good to have but all on the whole still think overall - it is a good rifle. Go ahead - show me some respectable real gun expert - that say that overall it is not a good rifle.
If your view on export - you seem to say - that if it did not export that well mean it is not that good - that mean if it export well = it is very good . Strange - you seem to have slam that very ideal in the discussion on 40mm grenade rounds, when someone told you that singapore is the world lead in 40mm grenade ... !!!
LOL!!!!You call that winter gloves? You'll get frost-bites in no time!
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Originally posted by Sepecat:
Hey I did'nt know that Popular Mechanics is a gun magazine !
Hey does'nt STK pass their best SAR21s to the expert gun reviewers to test out their wares - I guess they do - no surprises SAR21s reviewed will be zeroed & will hold zero for at least the duration of the test.
How nice to think that any potential aggressor will play by SAF rules of forward strategy.
Popular Mechanics have a section that specially cover weapons ! Please check that out.
Janes Defense also cover SAR-21 on their article . They are are defense magazine. - Whether how reputable they are - I believe you all quote a lot of information from them. So you only select to believe their article when it is to your advantage and when people use article of them against you - you write them of crap ?
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
LOL!!!!You call that winter gloves? You'll get frost-bites in no time!
Good that what i been waiting for you to say !!!
Tell me what is consider winter gloves - how thick it should be. There is so many winter gloves of different type of different thickness ... just because someone say his got problem with switch, you all never question what gloves they are wearing ?
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Originally posted by Sepecat:
Hey I did'nt know that Popular Mechanics is a gun magazine !
Hey does'nt STK pass their best SAR21s to the expert gun reviewers to test out their wares - I guess they do - no surprises SAR21s reviewed will be zeroed & will hold zero for at least the duration of the test.
How nice to think that any potential aggressor will play by SAF rules of forward strategy.
How nice to think that any potential aggressor will play by SAF rules of forward stragtegy ? just because you are dumb - we should not assume that the aggressor are dumb also.... !!! How do one be aggressor - of course they are at your door step already threatening you, if that is not forward stragtegy - you mean you see aggressor that use backward stragtegy - Moving their troops away ?
Lame clone of t-rex !!!
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Wah lau, dun 'discuss' about the gloves issue lar. There is confirm a big difference between TATICAL gloves and WINTER gloves. No one will wear a tatical glove in artic conditions, or a winter glove in a hot and humid climate ...
Even there's different thickness for winter gloves and also for tactical gloves. But certainly, winter gloves are at least a few times thicker than tactical gloves, regardless of their varying thickness. -
May I know how do you zero the SAR21 in the range? What tools do you need? If it is time-consuming, why so?
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Both M-16 and SAR21 need zero-ing...
M-16
At the range, a sensor thing is placed below the rifle barrel to detect where the shots actually hit. A screen will be beside the firer the show where the rounds 'lands'. Zero-ing is then done using s pincer and turning the foresight tip.
SAR-21.
At the range, after firingthe zero-ing shots, the firer would have to walk 100m down to the target board the see where the round actually land. The firer will then walk back and use the SAR21 C-tool and tweak the scope sighting. For the night shoot, the LAD is tweaked (using SAR21 C-tool) to make sure that the LAD red dot is at the centre of the scope. The night shoot zero-ing is usually done before last light.
Due to time constraints, firers are often ordered to run to n fro to the targetboards. And take note, for zero-ing, 4 mags are usually issued to the firer. Hence the firer, would usually have to walk up n down to the target board 4 times. Of course, if u can get ur zero-ing done in 1 or 2 mags ... then gd4u. -
Lol, storywolf must have really lost it to accuse Sepecat of being a clone of me.
What's funnier is that he can't even get the difference between tactical gloves and winter gloves correct, and when proven wrong he went on to suggest that gloves designed to be used in -20 degree weather can somehow come in tactical gloved thickness... apparently the next thing he's going to suggest is that Level IV body armour comes in Level 2A weights.
LOL.
Also, according to him, the opinions of grunts who have used to weapon day in and day out under field conditions ought to be disregarded over the opinion of media articles written by organizations who have only had the bare minimum of time with the weapon under best conditions.
So apparently in his world, you ought to trust the opinion of a person who has only seen the trailer instead of a person who has seen the whole movie in deciding if the movie is good or bad.
Seriously, none of his points will ever fly in the court of law, let alone in debate.
So apparently for him, the SAF's duty in times of crisis is to sit around and do nothing and let our warstock get bombed so that we can find some excuse to mess ourselves over just so we can use some feature called factory zero that is found in virtually all modern firearms in the first place.
Wow, this guy is just amazing...
Apparently in his world, common sense is a superpower:
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Additionally, given how bad and confused his ideas are, I am not entirely surprised that he could actually argue that this would be a good idea:
Sounds far fetched? Not when you read his arguments and fantasy stories on how SAR-21 factory zero will be used in war...
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i think the term "factory zero" is actually neutralizing the sight to the standard alignment in quality control terms. Once an individual person uses the rifle the alignment might not suit him ie: the distance from the eye to scope etc. Anyway SAR21 at 100m doesnt really requires zeroing but after that definitely had to zero. Anyway i prefer M16 than SAR cos i dont like the feel of SAR21's trigger pull and the Scope tends to fog. Wont get those problems in M16.