RSAF F-15SG
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Originally posted by Pitot:
reservists, no?
But u have to admit that the F15 can do what an A4 does and does it better...
I mean, look at the mexicans for a hint of what we are trying to do? no doubt slightly different but its in the same wavelength.
No one is arguing that the F15SG cant dogfight, but with such a low number purchased, it certainly has to be used in more valued missions other than air superiority right?
Bingo!
We buy such an expensive jet, so much stand-off munitions for it... I seriously don't think we are going to throw it into a dogfight.
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Perhaps RSAF is trying to adopt the USN's way of high and low-end fighters with the F-15 comprising the high end, and the F-16 at the low end.
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our tigers are almost at the end of their service too..
btw there's a reason why our falcons are not that good for air to air missions but this annual exercise is within rsaf..
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Bingo!
We buy such an expensive jet, so much stand-off munitions for it... I seriously don't think we are going to throw it into a dogfight.
Lets say its better to fight BVR than dog fight. Safer that way. And I doubt you want a flaming aggressor dropping down on Singapore Soil do you? Imagine the damage.
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Originally posted by CD the pilot:
Lets say its better to fight BVR than dog fight. Safer that way. And I doubt you want a flaming aggressor dropping down on Singapore Soil do you? Imagine the damage.
Oh no... why would I wanna get into a WVR fight?
Fox 3 is the only friend I'll ever need!
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Oh no... why would I wanna get into a WVR fight?
Fox 3 is the only friend I'll ever need!
always good to have some good insurance.fox 3 don't always work. especially if you can't find the bugger on your radar.. :S and i don't mean versus stealth aircraft. so you can't fire at what you can't lock.
but yeah, if everything is working fine + ROE allows. fox 3 is everyone's best friend. :)
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Well, if the bugger's music is on, then its a race for the burn through. Hopefully, I get to burn through his before he burns through mine.
It'll be nice if he doesn't have an equivalent of a fox3 also. =D
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Well, if the bugger's music is on, then its a race for the burn through. Hopefully, I get to burn through his before he burns through mine.
It'll be nice if he doesn't have an equivalent of a fox3 also. =D
MUTUAL KILL!!! haha.. then fight it out while parachuting to the ground with your pistol.... -
Before the F-35 enters service in RSAF, the F-15SG will take on the A2A role. Its only a short transition to the F-35 (5-7 years). 1-2 squadrons of F-35s is sufficient for A2A. Possibly 1/2 to 1 sqn of F-35B STOVL version will provide an adequate deterrent to potential surprise attacks. The F-16 are also capable of stand-off munitions eg Mavericks, glided JDAMs. Once GBU-39A/Bs SDBs and BRU-61 multiple racks get configured onto the F-16s, the RSAF doesn't actually need that many aircraft to fulfil the same amount of missions it could currently fulfil. What RSAF could do with are more munitions though.... If RSAF can extend its underground depots to house munitions (including those owned by US), SG can buy munitions from US in times of need without needing to have it delivered all the way from US (and yet save on the ownership cost) ie we provide weapons depot services in Singapore as well..... Its a shared services JIT concept pulling from a same supplier. At the same time, the US doesn't need to ship its munitions to its frontlines all the way from US.
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Originally posted by cheeze:
MUTUAL KILL!!! haha.. then fight it out while parachuting to the ground with your pistol....Haha! BANZAI!!!
Depends also one lar, not necessarily will result in Mutual KO. But if given similar altitude, and we are both dashing each other at the same pace, and they match our bracketing also... den suck thumb...
Chances are, both of us will crank, and we realize that, both of us will drag out. Eventually nobody dies, but missiles will be in the air. Defender wins, cos we managed to chase them away for the time being. MUAHAHAHA!
But seriously lar, if we are fighting on equal footing, something is majorly phucked up liao.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Haha! BANZAI!!!
Depends also one lar, not necessarily will result in Mutual KO. But if given similar altitude, and we are both dashing each other at the same pace, and they match our bracketing also... den suck thumb...
Chances are, both of us will crank, and we realize that, both of us will drag out. Eventually nobody dies, but missiles will be in the air. Defender wins, cos we managed to chase them away for the time being. MUAHAHAHA!
But seriously lar, if we are fighting on equal footing, something is majorly phucked up liao.
given the fog of war and the uncertainty that comes with it + the ever present murphy's law. you never know. maybe the adversary keeps his wild cards secret and we too, and then when we show hand. it's the same, oops. then if technological advantages are on parity then it'll be attrition based already? then it comes down to who has more of what. haha.
it'll be ugly man... hehe
but of course, don't have to shoot down the other aircraft to win. just have to deter them and force them to abort their mission. haha. everybody is happy, go back makan, come back and fight another day.
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Yeah, but what if its one of those Sweep versus CAP problem? Somebody has to take the hits.
If we're fending off a strike, its easy... just make them jettison their bomb load and its mission accomplished. But if they are trying attain local air superiority, then its a show down liao.
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Air superiority is low -value mission!!!!!!?????
He who controls e skies controls e battlefield
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Originally posted by spartan_6:
Air superiority is low -value mission!!!!!!?????
He who controls e skies controls e battlefield
eh?? *scratch head*
Did i say something wrong again?
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Originally posted by spartan_6:
Air superiority is low -value mission!!!!!!?????
He who controls e skies controls e battlefield
deep strike deep strike deep strike.
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Well, if one knocks out the airbase in which the aggressor is based, the issue of air sup becomes a moot point.
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Yeah thats true. But before you can knock out the airbase, you gotta get through the defenders. =D
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Yeah thats true. But before you can knock out the airbase, you gotta get through the defenders. =D
defenders = CAPs + air defences like SAMs and guns + random angry farmers holding rifles shooting in the sky .cheapcheap random bullet shooting down million dollar aircraft like in vietnam. better than hitting lottery!! haha. must be damn lucky though.
F15SG and our D+/52 is well-optimised for deepstrike. otherwise why the need for conformal tanks?? the amount of drag though negligible still comes out significant if you ever need to do dogfighting, very very very very draggy!
but of coz nowadays we're just BVR most of the time *cross fingers*
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btw there's a certain video circulating around the internet, not sure if it's pulled down yet. its about a USAF F15 pilot debriefing some senior guys aobut the Su30MKI observed performances during Red Flag.
gist of it is that no matter how good your aircraft is, at the hands of inexperienced pilots who can't utilised it to its max potential, even older legacy fighters can still win. and that the su-30 piloted by an experienced guy would be a tough nut to crack.
quite an interesting insight.
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Yeah, the D+ is not really for dogfighting though it can hold its own when its Cat I. Have to admit, having CFTs in a dogfight is a scary thought knowing that any gunshots are likely to come from that aspect.
The video was rather enlighening about the TVC. Green and over-eager pilots throwing the TVC around just to get nose authority for the quick kill when their sustained turn rate would have won out eventually anyway... sounds VERY green. But I won't expect any Su-30s to get into a dogfight anyway.
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read the paper cutting
Singapore's first F-15 fighter jet rolls off production line
Singapore's first F-15SG fighter jet was unveiled at a rollout ceremony in St Louis, Missouri. DSTA is responsible for managing the acquisition of the multi-role fighter, which will allow the Republic of Singapore Air Force to dominate aerial battles and deliver effective air power to the rest of the Singapore Armed Forces.
The Straits Times page B14
Lianhe Zaobao page 6@@@@@@@@@
where are the F16 A and B of RSAF?
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
read the paper cutting
Singapore's first F-15 fighter jet rolls off production line
The Straits Times page B14
Lianhe Zaobao page 6@@@@@@@@@
where are the F16 A and B of RSAF?
What's Google for?
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
read the paper cutting
Singapore's first F-15 fighter jet rolls off production line
The Straits Times page B14
Lianhe Zaobao page 6@@@@@@@@@
where are the F16 A and B of RSAF?
read up more and update your info. =)
we gave away our F16 A/Bs to Thailand in Nov 2004 as part of a defence agreement.
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btw, CFTs are removable. Just a bit more troublesome. CFTs are very useful for minimising tanker missions for long range ferry missions to and from US. F-15s can get to Hawaii without air refuel from the west coast. Hawaii to Guam with 1 air refuel. Guam to SG without air refuel.
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Originally posted by slim10:
The F-16 are also capable of stand-off munitions eg Mavericks, glided JDAMs. Once GBU-39A/Bs SDBs and BRU-61 multiple racks get configured onto the F-16s, the RSAF doesn’t actually need that many aircraft to fulfil the same amount of missions it could currently fulfil.
What RSAF could do with are more munitions though…. If RSAF can extend its underground depots to house munitions (including those owned by US), SG can buy munitions from US in times of need without needing to have it delivered all the way from US (and yet save on the ownership cost) ie we provide weapons depot services in Singapore as well….. Its a shared services JIT concept pulling from a same supplier. At the same time, the US doesn’t need to ship its munitions to its frontlines all the way from US.
in my opinion i think there is a minimum number of aircraft that any airforce should possess in order to wage an air campaign effectively. look at the US for example, they are currently being stretched very very thinly. and looking at future procurement 183 F-22s as their main bet for air superiority worldwide isn't enough.
looking inwards towards our region or for most countries, unless you need force projection then probably the requirement for self-defence would mean that the numbers of aircraft or assets needed could be scaled down.
but look at it this way, in any engagement you would expect losses. so let's say you load up an F16 or even a F35 with its full load of air-to-ground weapons. maybe you're expecting say 6 or more SDBs for example for a minimum of 1 bomb per target. if that aircraft gets shot down unfortunately then how? the other aircraft on that mission might have targets of its own to hit so you're already like 6 target kills less. its like loading all your eggs in 1 basket. i think its more prudent to spread out the loads over slightly more aircraft so that loss of aircraft in an engagement would not render your mission ineffective?
if you look at the US, when they go on a typical mission its like 4 aircraft tasked for Sweep, maybe 4 or 8 aircraft for strike, another 2 for SEAD, 2 more for rear sweep or escort.. thats already about 12 to 16 aircraft just for one mission to guarantee enough bombs to hit the target and usually you're looking at several targets within the vicinity, real case scenario would prob be more. of course we're only talking about legacy fighters like F15s, 16s and 18s and the rest of the conventional type of aircraft we have. F35s would be a significant asset to any airforce but you do still require a significant amount of them as their inner payload isn't that great, and if you want to add pylons outside to carry more then it defeats the whole purpose of them being stealth. :S
just my 2c worth :P the more aircraft the better!! haha