Air-bursting grenade in rifle,SSW & GL--What did SG achieve?
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if that were a thesis, you'd fail.
believe me.
1) no argument
2) no substantiation of argument (rendered moot since point 1 nonexistent)
3) points not clear
4) no diction of english
5) no command of english
6) unclear of what he is trying to say
7) sources not relevant
8) padding (i.e stuff it with irrelevant questions)
9) foucs/scope of argument, 1 topic only, myopic perspective
10) fundamental errors in logic
11) misleading, unexplained, unnecessary pictures
12) no attempt at academic rigour
13) no effort made at academic writing
14) does not address opposing point of view (moot because of point 1)
15) length is insufficient.
16) quality of work. comparable to a lower sec grade student who is doing basic factual comparison
17) no attempt made at analysis.
18) not aware of limitations to theory/point of view (rendered moot since point 1 not answered)
19) does not attempt to seek peer review or understand opposing viewpoints, automatic fail
20) does not approach the issue in breadth. does not make an attempt to explore contemperory issues which may be influencing or controling the process to a certain degree
you want me to make this to a 100 point list lionnoisy ? i got plenty of material to do so if you want.
and i give u one last chance to remove the FCS pointing to the scope on the SAR21 40mm LV ABMS. u cant differentiate a scope and a FCS is it ?
the scope has the optical sight and the rangefinder and the lasers/ IR lasers to beam the lasers, the FCS is located at the buttstock. look closely at that SAR21's buttplate. its not normal.
NO FCS FOR ANY AB GRENADE LAUNCHING SYSTEM IS LOCATED IN THE SIGHT. battery is too big for that. minaturised but not that minaturised YET. the battery and the thing that computes and sets the fuze on the AB grenade to a certain distance and trajectory is located within the rifle to prevent it from shock damage.
hahahaa cant tell the difference ?
stupid.
SELF-PWNED +1 .
go look up all known rifle mounted FCS. none is put in the weapon sight. all the FCS is put within rifle body.
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btw, sgstars do I happen to know u in person?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
btw, sgstars do I happen to know u in person?
eh ?
aside from the fact that we both go to the same school and campus, probably no.
why ? i m a freshie. doubt you'd probably know me. dont spend much time in school anyway. dont like it.
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i have been waiting long long for official confirmation
that FN 2000 under barrel ABSM GL either ready in production
or in service.Quoting sources is not show off.It respects to your readers
and help them to have more sources of info.
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1.What is the model he is holding?
2.Can anyone share any image of the new SAR 21 LV ABS GL,if any,
asap??
pl refer to previous page of this thread.
sss
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http://www.tactical-life.com/online/products/fn-herstals-scar/
cool!!
In June 2008 press release,FN USA did not mention the ABS.
Man.If ABS GL is succeeful launched from a hand held
weapon like rifle,it is a damn big news in small arms
development.
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=515#c1370
June 10, 2008
FN Herstal is pleased to announce that the SCAR™ assault rifle will be officially introduced onto the international market at Eurosatory in Paris (France) from June 16 to 20.
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again,Janes did not mention ABS!!
http://www.janes.com/events/exhibitions/eurosatory2008/sections/daily/day2/fns-dualcalibre-scar-set-.shtml
Accessories include top-mounted day/night optics, side-mounted laser pointer and light, and a forward pistol grip. All variants of the gun can mount the FN40GL low-velocity 40mm grenade launcher, which has forward and sideways opening. The grenade launcher fits snugly to the lower rail of the gun, so that gun and launcher triggers are accessible without moving the hand.
The FN40GL can also be fitted with a compact retractable buttstock to operate as a standalone weapon -
i want this in stead of the complicated Corner Shooting sys.
Hidden from view, but spot on
Swedish company Aimpoint, a prolific producer of tactical sights with more than 600,000 in use by military forces around the world, is presenting two new products, which are now entering full-scale production.lion note--the same company also developing ABS FCS for Swedish AF.
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further to the question if FN 2000 ABS is ready.
this is a clue.
Why is there no info under FCS of assualt Rifle in FN USA?
the Assual Rifle picture looks cool,likely with FCS.
But i cant see the GL.
Also,the Rifle page does not show details of the leading rifle.
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=176
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=266
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i think it is the whole sys of SAR 21 LV ABS GL.
status--known.The guy who posted this image may not know it is SAR 21!!
bullpup-with-cool-sight2--it is what he said!!
Tactical-Life.com » 2008 Eurosatory
pl share your info asap.
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/bullpup-with-cool-sight2.gif
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/2008-eurosatory/
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wow!ST or STK displayed ABS as early as 2003.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/DSEi2003.htm
mark this link.
© Anthony G Williams can give u personal reports
in many defence exhibitions!!
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/miltech.htm
Grenade Launchers
The were several 40mm automatic grenade launchers at DSEi, including the HK GMG, the new lightweight American Mk 47 Striker, and the Vektor.
A couple of other interesting AGL developments from the Singaporean firm of CIS were present in brochure form. One is the SLWAGL - Super Light Weight - (shown here without mounting) tips the scales at only 14 kg and is just 1,000 mm long, yet fires HV 40 x 53SR ammo at 350 rpm. It appears to use a differential recoil system (i.e. it fires while the barrel group is moving forwards). The other is the Air Bursting Munitions System, which can be fitted to any 40 mm AGL. It consists of a fire control system, a muzzle-mounted fuze programmer and of course special ammunition. This picture shows an AGL loaded with all the kit, and with the round in the foreground-end of quote
Two versions of the SAR-21 were on display, with long and short barrels, the former also being shown with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
i think it is the one appearing in Janes recently about LV ABS.
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again,he decribed FH 2000 in details and shows the brochure.
No ABS is mentioned!!I think it is the one appearing on FH USA site.
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nnnn
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repeated
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If the Metalstorm and ST joint ventures products come
with ABS,then it is beautiful!
"And - you've guessed it - they're promising airburst technology."
EUROSATORY 2006
© Anthony G Williams
On the subject of 40mm grenade weapons, I had better mention Metal Storm, who had a couple of items on the STK stand with whom they are cooperating. Two four-barrel units were shown, one with the barrels side-by-side and with an MG fitted (below)
STK Metal Storm unit + MG--above
and the the Redback, which appears to be the most developed. This has the barrels in a diamond pattern, and is a remote control device intended for fitting to the roof of any vehicle (it weighs 70 kg, complete with imaging sensor, thermal sensor and laser rangefinder). And - you've guessed it - they're promising airburst technology.
STK Redback mounting
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AIRBURST 40mm GRENADE ROUNDS
The US plans to introduce 25mm grenade rounds in high-tech weapons featuring airburst rounds (XM307, XM25) has stimulated the development of similar airburst technology from makers of the current 40mm weaponry. These developments not only affect the automatic grenade launchers firing the high-velocity 40x53SR rounds like the Singapore Technologies Kinetics Light Weight AGL shown below, but now the low-velocity 40x46SR rounds for firing from under-barrel grenade launchers.
STK 40mm LWAGL with airburst system
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Eurosatory%202006.htm
gbbb
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i cant understand why Sg Ty said a 25 mm grenade is more powerful than a 40 mm
one.The latter is easily 150 % more volume to put explosives
,fuze and other stuff.I assume they have same length.
Does he think designers of 40 mm is stupid than 25 mm designer,
like the Yankee who is going to test XM 25!
New Developments in Grenade Ammunition AMENDED 22 JUNE 2008
Grenades shown approximately to scale. From left to right:
25x39B XM25;
25x59B XM307;
40x46SR LV;
40x53SR HV;
30x29B VOG-30 (it has a more rounded fuze profile than the VOG-17);
40mm VOG-25 caseless;
35x32SR Chinese HEDP (drawing courtesy of Timothy Yan)
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if u can make part of ABS sys is big news,
not to mention u can do the whole sys.
I am still waiting for FN 2000 answer.Are u ready to fire
under barrel ABS GL from rifle,FN?
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Nammo announced it can make 40mm ABS grenade for Yankees.
http://www.nammo.com/templates/Technologies.aspx?id=185
why do i post small photo here and there?
Recently,my postings have been tainted and flooded by
too many irrelevant postings by,u know lah.
I hold image can help u trace some posts u have read.
Pl bear with me for a while.
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This is interesting to compare with other SAR models:
In the 2nd photo below,the suspected LV ABS version,
there is a wire running from the location of switch of laser in standard version.
So,it is one small clue that it is the real LV ABS.
top :GL M 203
cccccc
below--top CIS--Chartered Industry of Singapore 40 mm GL,
a replacement of few decades old M 203.
there will be no wire running from laser switch if without ABS.
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
further to the question if FN 2000 ABS is ready.
this is a clue.
Why is there no info under FCS of assualt Rifle in FN USA?
the Assual Rifle picture looks cool,likely with FCS.
But i cant see the GL.
Also,the Rifle page does not show details of the leading rifle.
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=176
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=266
because MORON,
US ARMY ISNT BUYING THE FN2000.
SOCOM is buying the SCAR. SOCOM is buying the SCAR EGLM. SOCOM's SCAR ELGM HAS THE FCS AND EGLM which is DERIVED from the FN2000.
you expect the US army to advertise take out full page advertisment in front of your door, HEY LIONNOISY, WE ARE BUYING SCARS EGLM FOR SOCOM. is it ?
again,he decribed FH 2000 in details and shows the brochure.
No ABS is mentioned!!I think it is the one appearing on FH USA site.
i think someones been smoking too much dope, now we comparing a howitzer to an assault rifle now ah ?
FH2000 Vs FN2000 : does lionnoisy know the difference ?
apparently not.
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u may ask if the FCS can do the job.
yes.u are right.Lets look at one being tested by Swedish AF.
It looks very small,as small as SAR's one.
Aimpoint BR8
A Fire Control System
for Small ArmsAimpoint BR8 –Project status
â—�Prototypes have been delivered to FMV (Swedish Defence Materiel Administration)
â—�Demonstrated for NATO in Toledo 2007-02-15: > 65% PHitat 1.2x1.2m targets from 100 to 250m!
â—�Additional prototypes available in late 2008http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Ljungfelt.pdf
http://www.aimpoint.com/whats_up/news
www.aimpoint.com
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Confirmed underbarrel ABS GL from FINMECCANICA COMPANY
EO-029 - Scorpio.cdr
The size is small ,catering for moving target and give u correct
angles to shoot!!If they can make it,i see no reason why we cant make it.
Ya!U need to adjust the rifle cum GL at a right angle to shoot,
depending on the speed of grenade and type,and wind speed
and direction!!....ha ha
This is the first time designer consider the moving target.Good!!
There are two--one big and one small:
1.big one
2.small one
http://www.selex-sas.com/EN/Common/files/Galileo_Avionica/Relazioni_Esterne/Scheda_Prodotto_2/Electro_Optics_2/SCORPIO_aut.pdf
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Singapore suspected SAR 21 40 LV ABMS Grenade Launcher.
compare the sight.
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update info on Infantry Weapon Sys
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3031/is_4_33/ai_n29459515/pg_3?tag=artBody;col1
armada international: 3/01 (Digest)
It talked about advanced soldier sys,ABS under barrel grenade launcher,
comm etc.of many countries,incl G 20!
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FN 2000 was first unveiled in 2000,
But airburst not mentioned.Only target laser mentioned.
armada international: 3/01 (Digest)
The standard 1.6x optical sight sits on a Picatinny (MIL SPEC 1913) rail so can be easily replaced by other sighting systems. An optional integrated target laser, flashlight or 40 mm LV grenade launcher can be fitted in place of the standard handgrip.
bbbb
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Originally posted by sgstars:
because MORON,
US ARMY ISNT BUYING THE FN2000.
SOCOM is buying the SCAR. SOCOM is buying the SCAR EGLM. SOCOM's SCAR ELGM HAS THE FCS AND EGLM which is DERIVED from the FN2000.
you expect the US army to advertise take out full page advertisment in front of your door, HEY LIONNOISY, WE ARE BUYING SCARS EGLM FOR SOCOM. is it ?
i think someones been smoking too much dope, now we comparing a howitzer to an assault rifle now ah ?
FH2000 Vs FN2000 : does lionnoisy know the difference ?
apparently not.
What is the stauts of SCAR EGLM?
Have u seen my posting here US set aseide budget to extend ABS
GL from 200 to 600 m?
Can u explain to me the current status?
Does Yankees SCAR EGLM currently can fire up to 200m or not workable at all?
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/337783
page 1 of this thread
In a Feb 2008 US DOD document,it said:
Outcome: The purpose of this project is to extend the effective range of the MK47 Enhanced Grenade Launcher Module (EGLM), which is affixed to the Special Operations Forces (SOF) Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR), from 200 to 600 meters. This project integrates the fire control and ammunition programming technology that is necessary to fire a medium velocity 40mm programmable round from the SCAR, in an effort to counter the current rocket propelled grenade threat.
http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2009/OSD/0605130D8Z.pdf
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Originally posted by sgstars:
because MORON,
US ARMY ISNT BUYING THE FN2000.
SOCOM is buying the SCAR. SOCOM is buying the SCAR EGLM. SOCOM's SCAR ELGM HAS THE FCS AND EGLM which is DERIVED from the FN2000.
you expect the US army to advertise take out full page advertisment in front of your door, HEY LIONNOISY, WE ARE BUYING SCARS EGLM FOR SOCOM. is it ?
......
i think someones been smoking too much dope, now we comparing a howitzer to an assault rifle now ah ?
FH2000 Vs FN2000 : does lionnoisy know the difference ?
..
apparently not.
jjj
Dunt change the course of discussion.
I am asking why FN does not mention in their web site,
any things like airburst,
ranging fire control,fire control system etc on Grenade launcher.
u look at H & K,they say they are developing
http://www.heckler-koch.de/HKWebText/detailProd/2003/350/4/17
A ranging fire control system for precise first round engagements at all ranges is also being developed.
AG-C/EGLMnnnn
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It is good to look at FCS of
Israeli Advanced Soldier System (IAS)
http://www.defense-update.com/products/i/inf-200.htm
STK has the advantage of the experiences of incorporating laser
pointer inside the hand gurad of SAR 21 assualt rifle for over 10 years.
This can save some space and improving the laser pointer.
No need to worry.I wont compare too much!
http://www.itloptronics.com/images/productImages/viper.pdf
Physical
Dimensions (LxWxH) 160 x 120 x 85 mm
Weight 1 kg
Interface Picatinny mount adaptercccc
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Korea K 11--like the size of XM 29.
http://bbs.news.sina.com.cn/tableforum/App/view.php?bbsid=4&subid=1&fid=114295&tbid=7781
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1) SOCOM is procuring SCAR EGLM. SOCOM has A SEPERATE PROCUREMENT program which is NOT RELATED TO US ARMY PROCUREMENT.
do you even understand what i m talking about ? sweet jesus, you are either deliberately conniving or are the most ####ed ####head i have ever come across.
2) STATUS : please read here,
http://www.accucounter.com/Leading%20Edge%20SCAR%20article.pdf
The SCAR uses an integrated, modular platform for two “family” members—SCAR Light (5.56 x 45 mm) and SCAR Heavy (7.62 x 51 mm). These rifles are ergonomicallythe same and share 80 percent of their parts. This will mean less training, less logisticalsupport, lower costs, and higher effectiveness for SOF. Both rifle designs can use modular barrels of various lengths to adapt to SOF Operator needs across their respective range
Future design and ammunition enhancements will be more easily incorporatedinto the SCAR platform due to its modularity.The SOF Weapons Program Management Office (PMO) at Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) currently manages this program across its entirelife cycle and is planning to team with the SOF Support Activity to sustain the program.Since contract award, the PMO has worked closely with SOF Operators to maximize theSCAR system’s potential; there have been six Joint Design Reviews and three User Assessments.The program is now in the Low-Rate Initial Production phase, with deliveriesdue to NSWC Crane on 25 February 2007 and Initial Operational Test and Evaluation to follow. The program will continue to tap operator feedback by fielding weapons to USSOCOM units during the summer of 2007.how ? anything left to say ? your timeline and dates are also inaccurate. remembered reading that SCAR ELGM was procured in 2004
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/eglm.htm
The EGLM was originally synopsized by USSOCOM on January 6, 2004 under RFP number H92222-04-R-0013. This current synopsis/solicitation number replaces previous Commercial Area Announcements N00164-04-R-4801 and N00164-03-R-0063 utilized for market research purposes. The program will use full and open competition to fulfill the joint USSOCOM EGLM requirement. The EGLM will be a one for one replacement to the M203 Grenade Launcher with Leaf Sight and AN/PSQ-18A Grenade Launcher Sight. The EGLM is a single shot, 40mm grenade launcher module that can be attached to a MIL-STD-1913 dimensioning rail interface on host weapons and can be adaptable to a yet undetermined interface system that may possibly replace the MIL-STD-1913 rail at the 6 o?clock position on the host weapon.
The EGLM shall consist of two primary components, the weapon module and fire control module. It will also have a major accessory, an ancillary butt-stock assembly. The EGLM mounting system will accommodate most current and future Special Operations Peculiar Modification (SOPMOD) accessories that support the host weapon mission. The EGLM also detaches from the host weapon to attach to an EGLM butt-stock assembly to accommodate stand-alone firing.
The EGLM shall provide the Special Operator with improved combat lethality and other capabilities, when compared to the current M79 and the M203 with Leaf Sight and AN/PSQ-18A Grenade Launcher Sight. The EGLM program has four sequential increments. This synopsis is for Increment 1 with the possibility of reaching Increment II. The Increment I weapon fire control modules shall be inherently upgradeable to incorporate technology advances to satisfy requirements for Increment 2 (programmable munitions capability). The EGLM fires standard 40mm x 46mm munitions along with special Low Velocity (LV) munitions.
Further, the EGLM shall operate in compliance with specifications to be published, to include, but not limited to: Accuracy: The EGLM system shall have a Probability of hit of at least .25 greater than an M203 with an AN/PSQ-18A. A hit is defined as a projectile landing within 5 meters of a designated point target. Target Engagement: The EGLM system shall allow operators to fire projectiles capable of engaging infantry squad targets at unknown ranges between 25 and at least 300 meters. A successful engagement is defined as a projectile landing within 5 meters of a designated point target. The EGLM system shall allow operators to fire projectiles capable of engaging stationary vehicle/bunker targets at unknown ranges to at least 300 meters. A successful engagement is defined as a projectile landing within 5 meters of a designated target. Ranging Capabilities: Provide for a method of target ranging that allows operators to determine range out to 600 meters, with error not to exceed +/- 5m, during day, night, and limited visibility.
just because you cant read and dont make an effort to, other people have to put up with your crap.
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Originally posted by sgstars:
1) SOCOM is procuring SCAR EGLM. SOCOM has A SEPERATE PROCUREMENT program which is NOT RELATED TO US ARMY PROCUREMENT.
do you even understand what i m talking about ? sweet jesus, you are either deliberately conniving or are the most ####ed ####head i have ever come across.
2) STATUS : please read here,
http://www.accucounter.com/Leading%20Edge%20SCAR%20article.pdf
how ? anything left to say ? your timeline and dates are also inaccurate. remembered reading that SCAR ELGM was procured in 2004
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/eglm.htm
just because you cant read and dont make an effort to, other people have to put up with your crap.
Status:tell me in not more than 100 words.Underdevelopment?Final productions?testing?Dared not released for uses?
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Lionnoisy,
You have mentioned so many STK systems, so tell me, why is the SSW still underdevelopment? Why is it that grunts like me, have not even seen a production LWAGL even though it had been revealed on Janes so many years ago? Or even the SAR21 40GL that you have repeatedly showed off to us?
Why ah? Why ah?
and you still have the guts to ask people to ask people to tell you in not more than 100 words about a system that people are using.....
Details
