Send Naval Task force to Somalia?
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Well, i guess the problem with patrolling that stretch of water is really about the money. Who is gonna pay for it?
We can get the UN to start an international joint patrol, can tap into UN's funds which is mainly paid for by the developed nations. It is in their best interest to have safe shipping lanes.
Most nations who have maritime trade will be directly or indirectly affected by piracy, further more it is in an area near to major shipping lanes.
I mean the pirates already got a oil tanker and a ship carrying MBTs and lots of arms. Can you imagine if all these falls into terrorists hands? At least with pirates, they only want money but terrorists are fanatics, thus irrational and can be unpredictable. That can be a very dangerous scenario to deal with.
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UN suffering from budget problems.
too much commitments, too much programs. the world food programe nearly went bankrupt earlier this year.
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Let Genghis Khan take care of this problem...he will slay anyone not mongolian....LOL
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Us sending any units of the RSN is a joke. We don't have the projection abilities, and we would probably spend more time worrying about protecting whatever oiler we use to bring along to keep our ships supplied. And our ships do not have the legs either for such long term offensive operations.
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Just rotate one of the LPDs over to CTF150. Resup is not a problem within a TF concept.
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Another way to look at it, its a good opportunity to field test our Formidables and LST. Use of UCAVs and USVs to conduct search and board operations like what we did off Iranian waters.
The trick here is to conduct a search on any vessel that doesn't look like a commercial vessel.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Well, i guess the problem with patrolling that stretch of water is really about the money. Who is gonna pay for it?
The same fools who have been paying the ransom and encouraging the priates, I suppose.
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those who claim to be experts in hammering think all things can be solved with a hammer
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Another way to look at it, its a good opportunity to field test our Formidables and LST. Use of UCAVs and USVs to conduct search and board operations like what we did off Iranian waters.
The trick here is to conduct a search on any vessel that doesn't look like a commercial vessel.
Well, if it is any UAV or something, it will have to be someone else's. We have no UAV that is deployable on any of our ocean going platforms. USVs don't have the legs, and I will be reluctant to use them for open sea. Will they dare to go close to the shores? *shrug*
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eh ?
i think the fantail (if in service at all) and some of the Army's smaller UAVs can be deployed off the deck of the endurance if need be.
but salt water corrosion will probably take a huge toll on equipment.
i propose we allow the indians to handle the situation. i think i m beginning to see a pattern here. Indian military action seems quite "cowboy" in nature. extremely aggressive.while it wont necessarily work elsewhere, it seems to work fine here.
case in point :
1) thai trawler engaged and sunk. indian frigate claims to have been fired upon first
if our S70Bs are delivered and operationally ready, it would be good if we could fit them with some mini-guns and some unguided rockets to take out speedboats or "escort" the ships which have been targeted by speedboats (i.e have some airborne cover to deter and to protect)
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Originally posted by sgstars:
eh ?
i think the fantail (if in service at all) and some of the Army's smaller UAVs can be deployed off the deck of the endurance if need be.
but salt water corrosion will probably take a huge toll on equipment.
i propose we allow the indians to handle the situation. i think i m beginning to see a pattern here. Indian military action seems quite "cowboy" in nature. extremely aggressive.while it wont necessarily work elsewhere, it seems to work fine here.
case in point :
1) thai trawler engaged and sunk. indian frigate claims to have been fired upon first
if our S70Bs are delivered and operationally ready, it would be good if we could fit them with some mini-guns and some unguided rockets to take out speedboats or "escort" the ships which have been targeted by speedboats (i.e have some airborne cover to deter and to protect)
After their poor show at Mumbai, and the mistaken Thai CV ship, I don't think thats a very good idea.
Well, I don't suppose the Firescout is ready for this yet....
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Warships rescue merchant vessels in Gulf of Aden
A NATO warship has prevented a swarm of more than a dozen pirate boats from hijacking five merchant shipping vessels in the Gulf of Aden, the alliance said in a statement.
Alerted by a distress call, the Italian navy destroyer put itself between the ships and a group of pirate "fast boats", with all vessels using water hoses to repel the pirates.
The Italian warship, Luigi Durand de la Penne, also used its helicopter against the pirates, dispersing their attack, a NATO official said.
"This is probably the biggest multiple, coordinated attack we've seen," the official said, adding that more than 12 pirate boats were involved, perhaps as many as 20.
"There were so many of them, that it was more important to protect the motor vessels than to go after these dispersing boats," the official said, on the sidelines of talks between NATO foreign ministers in Brussels.
"These attacks are more and more brazen," he said, adding: "The bottom line is: this is a busy part of the world."
The vessels under threat were the Hambourg Star, flagged out of Liberia, the Hong Kong registered Overseas Hercules, Iranian flagged Iran Esteghlal, the Sea Queen from Singapore, and the Alexander Sibum flagged in Antigua and Barbuda.
NATO has four ships - from Britain, Greece, Italy and Turkey - on patrol in the waters off Somalia, with two protecting UN food aid convoys to the strife-torn Horn of Africa country.
The mission, NATO's first-ever against pirates, is commanded from Naples, southern Italy. It will end in mid-December when a bigger European Union operation - dubbed Atalanta - is to be put in place.
Somalia's Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean waters have seen around 100 vessels attacked this year. The escalation threatens to choke one of the world's busiest maritime routes.
- AFP -
They should have smoked every last one of those pirates.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
After their poor show at Mumbai, and the mistaken Thai CV ship, I don't think thats a very good idea.
Well, I don't suppose the Firescout is ready for this yet....
We do have the Protector from the RSN which is already in service. Just have a bigger unmanned boat with a naval Typhoon mounted on it. Good enough to deal with most situations, cut manpower and help save lives.
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Originally posted by Jianye:
I suggest have squads of warships disguised as merchant ships to slay all the pirates they encounter...In this way, the pirates will think twice about attacking merchants..
Next, flatten their base if found..with anything..a nuke...bombs..missiles...
The idea of Q-ships have been tried before, bad idea as other ships responding to the emergency might think that the armed merchantman is also a pirate ship. -
I was begining to wonder who would take the lead once the UN pass the resolution.
Reporting from Beijing -- China signaled Wednesday that it may send warships to help fight pirates off the coast of Somalia, a sign of Beijing's increasing willingness to flex its military muscle.
Although China has participated in United Nations peacekeeping operations in Africa, its navy has seldom left the Pacific region. The Global Times, a newspaper tied to the ruling Communist Party, called the possible deployment China's "biggest naval expedition since the 15th century."China's deputy foreign minister, He Yafei, was quoted by the state news agency as saying that China was "seriously considering sending naval ships to the Gulf of Aden and waters off the Somali coast for escorting operations in the near future."
The remarks during a ministerial meeting of the U.N. Security Council were the first by a senior Chinese official confirming widespread speculation voiced in recent weeks.
The state-controlled press has been rallying support for such a mission with editorials that refer to China's "responsibility" as well as to what the English-language China Daily called an opportunity to "get into the thick of the action." An online poll published by the newspaper today reported that 90% of respondents supported the mission.China is the only permanent member of the Security Council that has not joined the U.S. in a growing international fleet fighting a brazen wave of piracy launched from Somalia's shores. Among other participants are Denmark, Greece, Turkey, Italy and Malaysia.
"As part of the U.N. Security Council, China has the responsibility to maintain the international peace and security. It also has to do so to protect its own interests," said Liu Naiya, an Africa specialist at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing. "Fighting piracy is consistent with the global war against terrorism."
For the Chinese, the urgency of the mission was underscored by an attack Wednesday in the Gulf of Aden on a ship owned by the China Communications Construction Co. The 30 crew members barricaded themselves in their cabins until they were rescued by a multinational force that reportedly swooped in with helicopters. Two other Chinese ships have been attacked since mid-November.
The Global Times reported today that two naval destroyers and a large depot ship would leave the port of Sanya on the South China Sea for an initial deployment of three months in the Gulf of Aden.
Although it has not yet been officially announced, the Somalia mission is generating much debate about what it signals for China's rise as a global power. The United States has encouraged China's participation in international peacekeeping operations, but views the rapid expansion of its navy as a possible threat in the event of war breaking out over Taiwan.
The navy of the People's Liberation Army has not left the Pacific region except for what have been called goodwill tours, such as one in 2006 when two ships visited San Diego.
Much of China's imported oil passes from the Red Sea through the Gulf of Aden to the Indian Ocean. -
Originally posted by sgstars:
eh ?
i think the fantail (if in service at all) and some of the Army's smaller UAVs can be deployed off the deck of the endurance if need be.
but salt water corrosion will probably take a huge toll on equipment.
i propose we allow the indians to handle the situation. i think i m beginning to see a pattern here. Indian military action seems quite "cowboy" in nature. extremely aggressive.while it wont necessarily work elsewhere, it seems to work fine here.
case in point :
1) thai trawler engaged and sunk. indian frigate claims to have been fired upon first
if our S70Bs are delivered and operationally ready, it would be good if we could fit them with some mini-guns and some unguided rockets to take out speedboats or "escort" the ships which have been targeted by speedboats (i.e have some airborne cover to deter and to protect)
small problem though...the indian kill also a whole bunch of hostage inside that thai trawler. ...and they didnt even have the courtesy to search for survivor....
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ship owner airborne ransom?
http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2009-01-10/1000538247.html
'Ransom paid' for hijacked supertanker updated 12 hours, 28 minutes ago
Pirates on a seized Saudi-owned oil supertanker were counting their ransom money aboard the hijacked ship Friday amid expectations that the ship and its crew of 25 are to be released in the next 24 hours, a witness told a local journalist on Friday.cnn.com/
A U.S. Navy photo of the Sirius Star, a Saudi oil tanker seized by pirates last November.
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Just rotate one of the LPDs over to CTF150. Resup is not a problem within a TF concept.
Can they expand the scope of CTF 158? or it has to be a UN mandate? -
Hi all. I'm new here :) I'm just wondering, isn't it a bit tough using full-sized naval ships to handle pirates? It seems as if the Somali pirates are using small, heavily armed speedboats...not something a frigate or cruiser armed with big missiles and guns could take on easily. Conventional blue-water naval ships aren't really suited to the task. The speedboats'd be hard to detect, and one wouldn't have much use for Aster and Harpoon missiles in such a situation. True, naval gunfire could work, but if the speedboats were moving, it'd be tricky. (Finding the target could be a problem, though.)
Worse, if they got in close, the ship'd not have much way to retaliate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that an LST-sized ship's going to have some blind spots where a fast boat could close, fire off a few RPGs, and run. Maybe the sailors could take pot shots at the pirates, but y'know.
In my (uneducated :P) opinion, it would make more sense to deploy helicopters and aircraft there (UAVs too) to scout large swathes of ocean, and shoot. That's what the EU force seems to be doing. The ships themselves aren't going into harm's way, but are acting more like floating helipads, command posts and barracks for marines and troops. Helicopters like the S-60 are probably useful as they can pack missiles and a boarding team.
Besides, I guess this question is moot: politically, I doubt the Singapore government sees the need to do such a thing, and to the RSN the LSTs and Formidable class ships are too valuable to send into harm's way right now for such little gain. Logstics would be near-impossible too unless we get supplies from some other navy or port in the area.
Still, Somalia's problems must be solved by a humanitarian solution, although gunboats are fun.
(P.S Don't worry, I'm not another noisy armchair strategist with something to prove. ;P)
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Originally posted by sgstars:
we should send davy jones and his kraken over there. or captain Jack sparrow and barabossa too.
Why not send the merlion? Scare them away with a natural freakshow. -
Originally posted by omega21:
Hi all. I'm new here :) I'm just wondering, isn't it a bit tough using full-sized naval ships to handle pirates? It seems as if the Somali pirates are using small, heavily armed speedboats...not something a frigate or cruiser armed with big missiles and guns could take on easily. Conventional blue-water naval ships aren't really suited to the task. The speedboats'd be hard to detect, and one wouldn't have much use for Aster and Harpoon missiles in such a situation. True, naval gunfire could work, but if the speedboats were moving, it'd be tricky. (Finding the target could be a problem, though.)
Worse, if they got in close, the ship'd not have much way to retaliate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that an LST-sized ship's going to have some blind spots where a fast boat could close, fire off a few RPGs, and run. Maybe the sailors could take pot shots at the pirates, but y'know.
In my (uneducated :P) opinion, it would make more sense to deploy helicopters and aircraft there (UAVs too) to scout large swathes of ocean, and shoot. That's what the EU force seems to be doing. The ships themselves aren't going into harm's way, but are acting more like floating helipads, command posts and barracks for marines and troops. Helicopters like the S-60 are probably useful as they can pack missiles and a boarding team.
Besides, I guess this question is moot: politically, I doubt the Singapore government sees the need to do such a thing, and to the RSN the LSTs and Formidable class ships are too valuable to send into harm's way right now for such little gain. Logstics would be near-impossible too unless we get supplies from some other navy or port in the area.
Still, Somalia's problems must be solved by a humanitarian solution, although gunboats are fun.
(P.S Don't worry, I'm not another noisy armchair strategist with something to prove. ;P)
so as long as you arent lionnoisy any form of input is welcomed and appreciated.
hmm, helicopters do have their limitation and may not be used in all weather conditions (likewise the pirate vessels but thats another matter).
USV or UAVs under shipboard launch and recovery may be difficult too.
the CTF 158 scope of operations, is more of a show of force to deliver a deterrent effect rather than actually operations against the pilots. its to remind them that there is a stick ready to deal a big whack if the pirates pull off anything stupid. its defensive in nature and not offensive
its the threat of the whack that the ships represent. not really so much of the stick. the task force will probably be there for another 6-8 months, pirates are sufficiently deterred and things should go back to normal.
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Those pirates who took the ransom for the Sirius drowned later when their boat capsized.
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blackwater offering their services...
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Those pirates who took the ransom for the Sirius drowned later when their boat capsized.
got money never upgrade boat.