Malaysia Army to purchase modernised T84M.
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After meeting the Ukraine PM in Swiss few days ago -Malaysian PM Datuk Seri Dr.Mahathir has decided it is time further increase the present bilateral ties through some tech transfer deal.T84M MBT are to be partly manufactured in Malaysia by DEFTECH to equipped at least 2 regiment of MBT.The first MBT regiment are to be equipped with Polish PT91M.Furher clarification could be obtained through ITAR TASS or Ukraine news agency.
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wat is the implication to sg's defense?
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So the MAF armoured brigade becomes a reality after years of planning. Logistics is still a problem with so many different equipment in the MAF isn't it? Still, why choose the PT91M then? I know both were undergoing tests and logically there should be one winner.Originally posted by HARIMAU:After meeting the Ukraine PM in Swiss few days ago -Malaysian PM Datuk Seri Dr.Mahathir has decided it is time further increase the present bilateral ties through some tech transfer deal.T84M MBT are to be partly manufactured in Malaysia by DEFTECH to equipped at least 2 regiment of MBT.The first MBT regiment are to be equipped with Polish PT91M.Furher clarification could be obtained through ITAR TASS or Ukraine news agency.
And what about the CV90-120?
Off Topic - Harimau - do you post in other forums as well? Need to ask about the racial makeup of the MAF. -
some neighbours likes to boost about their weapons n so on... which seems that they are behaving in a more unneighbourly manner...Originally posted by HARIMAU:After meeting the Ukraine PM in Swiss few days ago -Malaysian PM Datuk Seri Dr.Mahathir has decided it is time further increase the present bilateral ties through some tech transfer deal.T84M MBT are to be partly manufactured in Malaysia by DEFTECH to equipped at least 2 regiment of MBT.The first MBT regiment are to be equipped with Polish PT91M.Furher clarification could be obtained through ITAR TASS or Ukraine news agency.
ok lah hairy mao.... MALAYSIA WINS LAH.... MALAYSIA GOT THE BEST ARMED FORCES IN SOUTH EAST ASIA LAH.... happy?? -
BTW Harimau wat's the vehicle to the right? Still has a Ukrainian flag on it.
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I am not too familar with the Polish MBT. But I think it should be in the same class as the PT91s.
So why two different MBTs instead of a single platform. Won't that have advantages in terms of training and maintenance (lower cost of ownership)????
So the MAF is forming an amoured brigade. In the "Defending the Lion City", Tom speculate that the SAF is forming a amoured Division, I wonder if that will be reality.
I hope the SAF has an answer to all this new threats. -
The 32nd Div, built around 4 SAB.
Makes you wonder what tank the SAF is acquring next. -
Tanks on trial at a countryside,where is this place?
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Live firing over a hill at a secret training base.
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Originally posted by Arena:some neighbours likes to boost about their weapons n so on... which seems that they are behaving in a more unneighbourly manner...
ok lah hairy mao.... MALAYSIA WINS LAH.... MALAYSIA GOT THE BEST ARMED FORCES IN SOUTH EAST ASIA LAH.... happy??
I dun think Harimau is boosting about anything, he's just sharing info. BTW, pls refrain from posting replies that has potential to lead into a flame war...
We are peace-loving ppl remember?
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indeed.arterall, harimau seems to be the most rational malaysian down here.We should read his views with the respect of a fellow forumer.
A word for you harimau, please choose yr words carefully to prevent some over zealeous singaporeans from flaming you -
Does that mean Malaysia's gonna operate 2 different MBT types?? In a single brigade??
And I thot singapore armour had too many types. The Malaysian's gonna beat us at that too!
I would believe that the other vehicle is a BERM-84, the recovery variant of the T-84
The T-84 is developed from the T-80UD. Conventional layout, gunner left, commander right, with autoloader feeding a 125mm smoothbore. Elevation -5 to +13.
Width: 3.775m
Hull: 7.085m
Gun Forward: 9.72m
Height: 2.76m w/ 12.7mm MG
Combat Wt: 46t
Engine: 6-cyl 1200hp desiel
Max Road Speed: 65kmh
Looks like a better tank to me than the PT-91 -
i bet a couple of ATGMS of one hellfire can take the tank out?
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and Malaysia was complaining about Singapore's arms purchases. . .
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Sorry if my post is a bit so call offensive(???) but i just want to highlight certain stuffs on the MAF latest developments.Remember last year i did mentioned something about more goodies coming our way in the CAESAR SPG thread?So this is part of the good news but the bad news is- it aint gonna happen till our PT91M are fully delivered (circa early 2004).T84M are to be equipped with NATO specs stuffs like the PT91M and comes with the REFLEKS missiles as standard which can be use against armour or low fying helos.T84M aint a new face in Malaysia...just that PT91M got the first shares of the pie.I strongly believes your armed forces will watch this latest development with great interest.....maybe a new MBT on the horizon for SAF?
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From one of the pictures shown, I'm guessing the tanks were somewhere near Kuantan or Pekan, along the line north of Mersing.
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http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/jdw/jdw020927_1_n.shtml
seems to me like the Poles are dumping their hardware ahead of their switch over to NATO equipment...
its both a good thing AND a bad thing... good thing is M'sia can probably pick up bargain priced military hardware...
bad new is that with the massive purchase and switch to NATO equipment can mean bad news for Poland's arms industry and VERY bad news for whoever bought from them...
in another article, polish sources reported in JDW remarks that the Leopard 2 is "twice as good as the PT91 at a similar price"...
call me a pessimist, but i don't like the idea of buying a piece of equipment that has been rated as second best by the same people who makes and uses it...
The writings on the wall seems to point towards the direction of Poland buying NATO compliant equipment from western countries and western countries giving them very generous aid packages to gain a firm foothold in the eastern european market instead of depending on its own arms industry or buying from its traditional soviet sources.
comments anybody? -
no no, they are perfectly alright.Don't be mistiken.I was just trying to share a word of advise to you.Originally posted by HARIMAU:Sorry if my post is a bit so call offensive(???) but i just want to highlight certain stuffs on the MAF latest developments.Remember last year i did mentioned something about more goodies coming our way in the CAESAR SPG thread?So this is part of the good news but the bad news is- it aint gonna happen till our PT91M are fully delivered (circa early 2004).T84M are to be equipped with NATO specs stuffs like the PT91M and comes with the REFLEKS missiles as standard which can be use against armour or low fying helos.T84M aint a new face in Malaysia...just that PT91M got the first shares of the pie.I strongly believes your armed forces will watch this latest development with great interest.....maybe a new MBT on the horizon for SAF? -
Dear HARIMAU,
Just wondering if you are familiar what combat engineering capabilities does your armed forces possess ? Given the natural obstacles such as rivers and thick forest etc., I bet there should be some mechanised equipments or engineering capabilities to assist the MBTs to overcome these obstacles.
Also understand that your country is purchasing two units some sort of combat bridges.... are they capable to handle the MBTs bought ? -
High time for the Singaporean SM2 Tank.
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Employing MBTs in the jungle has never been the main problem at all. M-60s were once deployed in vietnam, with its predecessor. The main problem has always been that the capability of a main battle tank would be limited in dense vegetation n trees. Often also restricted to certain jungle roads etc.
Another thing, there aren't really HUGE rivers in Peninsular Malaysia. Nothing a combat engineer detachment can't solve. Moreover, many modern tanks are able to ford rivers with some preparation.
In relation to Singapore's Armored capabilities. We should continue to acquire main battle tanks, n upgrade current ones. With exception of some really soft terrain... places where light tanks can't cross, main battle tanks can't either. And believe me, if opposition combat engineers decide to create a lot of "counter-mobility" obstacles, ALL our armored vehicles will be affected. Be they minefields, flooded areas, anti tank ditches or watever. Light Tank or main battle will both be affected. So might as well get a balanced force of both heavy armor and speed. -
Guys,
No doubt MAF combat engineers capabilities still a bit 'outdated' yet measures has been taken since 2000 to restructure certain elements.Hence the purchased of two types of tactical bridges (i think 6 in total)- Vickers PLC MLC 90 tactical bridge which could withstand a max load of 70 tonnes and CNIM France pontoon bridges but with lesser max load circa 50 odd tonnes.Even the 1st MBT regiments are made of 48 MBT and 14 support vehicles (which include at least 6 AVLB).T 84M should come with the BREM 84 and similar AVLB like the ones mounted on the PT91M.Nos still uncertain though. -
I've got the feeling Mindef already suspected/knew MBTs would proliferate in the SEA region and thus decided to take 1 step ahead by acquiring the most advanced anti-tank helos in the form of the Longbow Apaches.
However, I would also hope that SAF does not relinquish our current MBT capability after the Centurions are redrawn from services (I cannot confirm this but it was discussed in other threads). I hope to see some new 120mm gun armed MBTs with the latest fire-control system and defensive aid suite, albeit in a small number of 60 or so vehicles.
Finally, I can nevery quite understand why the TOW-armed Fennecs were redrawn/stored. I thought the more anti-tank choppers we have the better we are to deal with the MBTs and numerous enemies AFV/IFVs. -
not offensive at all. . .you only posted information AND with accompanying reasons to validate it. . ., dun mind more of such stuff. . .Originally posted by HARIMAU:Sorry if my post is a bit so call offensive(???) but i just want to highlight certain stuffs on the MAF latest developments.Remember last year i did mentioned something about more goodies coming our way in the CAESAR SPG thread?So this is part of the good news but the bad news is- it aint gonna happen till our PT91M are fully delivered (circa early 2004).T84M are to be equipped with NATO specs stuffs like the PT91M and comes with the REFLEKS missiles as standard which can be use against armour or low fying helos.T84M aint a new face in Malaysia...just that PT91M got the first shares of the pie.I strongly believes your armed forces will watch this latest development with great interest.....maybe a new MBT on the horizon for SAF?
oh yah and people. . . I think its time we start opening up the scope of this forum to more than just Singapore and Malaysia. . . after all, the forum name is 'Military Nuts', not 'Singapore Military Nuts' or Malaysia Military Nuts'. . .although focus will still be Sg due to it being hosted at Sgforums.com and cos most of us are singaporeans. . . -
After reading more about the T-84 MBT spec from http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84.html I have to say that I am quite impressed - at least on the advertised broucher figures and technical description of the vehicle.
On paper, it is more or less equipped sufficiently sophisticated to meet all sort of threats in modern battlefields. Theoretically, they could match some of the current generation of western tanks. However, I will always take a pinch of salt from a former Warsaw pact country's product. Although, on paper, the T-84 seems to have it all, a good large calibre gun, good reactive armour, stabalised gun and sights, advanced thermal sights, advanced fire-control system, defensive-aid suite, high power engine, etc, the quality of the tank under battle condition is still unknown. Given that the Russian designed (originated) tanks constantly fair well below western/Israeli design tanks, I would put a big question mark on the sale pitch.
But it is easy to see why MAF is being lure into buying such a tank - not to mention, a very similar design from Poland. If one doesn't have sufficient cash to purchase a good western tank, it is not possible to hold against the temptation of purchasing a Eastern European tanks given the impressive array of gadgets at a very affordable price.
Having said this, I think SAF should also not be found unprepared. I am more and more incline to believe that it is imperative for SAF to maintain modern MBT capability. Perhaps SAF should consider the possibility of getting some Lelarc?????