Weapons Singapore Gave Up?
-
As some of you may know, I'm writing my dissertation on the defence industries of Singapore.
I need to consult some of you 'experts' here about weapons that are locally produced, esp. by ST Engg. Have there been cases of us producing weapons/military hardware, but stopped due to various reasons like not productive, no buyers, etc? -
sar80 sar88
-
weapons ST produce:
sar80
sar88
sar21
agl40
bronco
bionix
lsv(flyer)
40mm AA gun
fh88
fh2000 -
what about landmines?
-
Didn't Singapore signed the Convention to ban the manufacture and use of all types of land mines in 2000 ?
-
Originally posted by Atobe:
nope... we didnt sign... merely observer status if i am correct...
Didn't Singapore signed the Convention to ban the [b]manufacture and use of all types of land mines in 2000 ?
[/b]
anyway... why would we ban land mines when we produce one of the best land mines in the world
secondly... the convention is a bullshit... guns and bullets killed more people every day... but then... you dont see people banning it...
why not banned NUKES? -
Originally posted by Atobe:
No, Singapore manufactures and stockpiles landmines, though it does not a sell a single one (officially at least)
Didn't Singapore signed the Convention to ban the [b]manufacture and use of all types of land mines in 2000 ?
[/b] -
The Convention to ban the manufacture and use of landmines was specifically targetted at the variety of Anti-Personnel Mines that do not kill but maim.
The situation is made worse by the indiscriminate laying of such Anti-Personnel Mines that are left in unmarked and unrecorded minefields.
Worst still is the fact that these Anti-Personnel Mines are made of plastic (some made in tempting and innocent looking features - circa Russian made during Afghan War), making these mine undetectable, and remaining lethal for many years after the war is long over.
Long after the wars are over, civilian casualties are still occuring in Afghanistan, Cambodia, and other battle zones of Africa, Latin American, and East Europe.
I believe that Singapore is a signatory to this Convention (will have to check into the Straits Times archive).
The USA is prepared to accept this convention, with exceptions to allow for the continued use of Anti-Tank Mines especially for the defense of the South Korean Peninsula against an invasion from North Korea. -
Originally posted by tripwire:nope... we didnt sign... merely observer status if i am correct...
anyway... why would we ban land mines when we produce one of the best land mines in the world
secondly... the convention is a bullshit... guns and bullets killed more people every day... but then... you dont see people banning it...
why not banned NUKES?
Why fight? -
Does anybody know if the 40mm Air Bursting Munition is adopted by the SAF? The ability to engage targets behind defilade is a very attractive capability, akin to what the american OCSW 20mm granade does.Originally posted by foga:weapons ST produce:
sar80
sar88
sar21
agl40
bronco
bionix
lsv(flyer)
40mm AA gun
fh88
fh2000 -
What's the story behind SAR88? why stop producing?
-
SAR 88 didn't have enough omph to gain widespread acceptance, it was simply more economic to stick with the M-16.
The only way ST could "break" the market was to come up with something that offered superior features and was different enough and offered new capabilities that it would be attractive enough for the military to consider it. Thus they came up with the SAR-21.
I think ST also makes advanced grenade launchers, iuncluding the Ultra Light Weight AGL, air bursting munitions, super rapid 120mm mortar, Terrax AFVs (dunno how useful they are though), our own .50cal MG... -
Who knows, each rifleman might be given 2 light APmines. When they need to retreat out an area, simply arm proximity sensor, and drop it behind them as they are clearing out. Hi-tech huh?
Best still are our Gundam-assault suits. I like the one hidden under MacRitchie reservoir most, has a laser blade and Medium Ranged missiles. -
u ple are really nuts...see sbo and ma
sterbate ah -
S.T. Engineering manufactures the following military “Land Equipment” in the following main Sub-Groups:
ST Kinetics - Infantry Weapon System
M-16 (Discontinued)
SAR-80 (Discontinued)
SR-88 (Discontinued)
SAR21 Assault Rifle
ULTIMAX 100 Light Machine Gun
CIS 50 MG 0.5 calibre Heavy Machine Gun
CIS 40mm Grenade Launcher
CIS 40mm Automatic Grenade Launcher
Super Light Weight Automatic Grenade Launcher
Remote Weapon System
ST Kinetics – Large Calibre System
FH-80 (Discontinued)
FH-2000 155mm 52 calibre Field Howitzer
155mm Light Weight Self-Propelled Howitzer
120mm Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System
ST Kinetics - Air and Naval Defense System
AOS 40mm L70 Field Air Defence Mount
Visit following site, for more info:
http://www.stengg.com/land/la_weaponsgrp.html
S T Engineering – Automotive – Ordnance Div
Wheeled Vehicles:
TERREX AV-81 Armored Personnel Carrier
FLYER Light Strike Vehicle
Tracked Vehicles:
BRONCO ATTC – All Terrain Tracked Carrier
BIONIX – Infantry Fighting Vehicle
Vehicle Upgrades:
M-113 Armored Personnel Carrier Upgrades
AMX-13 Light Tank Upgrade
For more info, visit following web site:
http://www.stengg.com/land/la_automotivegrp.html#ordnace
S T Kinetics – Munition Group
Small Arms Ammunitions – 5.56, 7.62 Training Rounds, Tracers, and Blanks
Heavy Weapons Ammunitions – 0.50 Cartridge Sabot Light Armor Penetrator / Tracer
Medium Calibre Ammunitions:
AGLS 40mm Green HEDP-SD Grenade – Self-Destruct Feature
40mm GL High Velocity Grenades HE, HEDP-SD, Tracer, Target Practice
40mm GL Low Velocity Grenades HE, HEDP-SD, Target Practice
40mm Air Bursting Ammunition System
Large Calibre Ammunition
155mm Cargo Round Ammunition – Hollow Base and Base Bleed Cargo Rounds
Visit following web site, for more info:
http://www.stengg.com/land/la_munitionsgrp.html
Quite a wide program that does not include those in the Marine and Aviation sector. -
r u dreaming or not?Originally posted by Shotgun:Best still are our Gundam-assault suits. I like the one hidden under MacRitchie reservoir most, has a laser blade and Medium Ranged missiles.
-
*Grin*
-
Originally posted by Shotgun:
Who pilot them? Japanese Foreign Talents?
Best still are our Gundam-assault suits. I like the one hidden under MacRitchie reservoir most, has a laser blade and Medium Ranged missiles. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
USA signed but never ractified... typical US trick in potentially messy sitiuations...
The Convention to ban the manufacture and use of landmines was specifically targetted at the variety of Anti-Personnel Mines that do not kill but [b]maim.
The situation is made worse by the indiscriminate laying of such Anti-Personnel Mines that are left in unmarked and unrecorded minefields.
Worst still is the fact that these Anti-Personnel Mines are made of plastic (some made in tempting and innocent looking features - circa Russian made during Afghan War), making these mine undetectable, and remaining lethal for many years after the war is long over.
Long after the wars are over, civilian casualties are still occuring in Afghanistan, Cambodia, and other battle zones of Africa, Latin American, and East Europe.
I believe that Singapore is a signatory to this Convention (will have to check into the Straits Times archive).
The USA is prepared to accept this convention, with exceptions to allow for the continued use of Anti-Tank Mines especially for the defense of the South Korean Peninsula against an invasion from North Korea.
[/b]
besides, developments are already in place to skim the restrictions of the proposed convention... the argument is against unmanned mines... so what happens if u put an operator in control of a mine cluster?
same shit... deadlier, more effective weapons...
and why is it more humane to kill rather than to maime? sure, the eternal military rationale that a wounded soldier saps more morale and the resources of the enemy... but if u ask me, whether u kill me or blow off my legs, its equally bad...
or if u places a self destruct mechanism, or programmed a limited shelf life into them to render them inert after a certain period of time?
its essentially the same thing... better by a thin margin, but not much...
besides, mines do have a legitimate defensive use... as u mentioned, look at the DMZ at the korean peninsula... nobody gets hurt there other than the occassional rabbit or squirrel...
hence, in the hands of responsible military leaders with legitimate defensive needs, landmines do nothing more than keep the peace.
its third world dictators, oppressive cold war regimes and two pence guerilla fighters that make a mess out of deploying them. -
You're missing the point, my dim witted friend. Most people don't really care if landmines blow off the legs of soldiers, after all it's the poor bloody infantry's job to be battered by arty, strafed by airplanes, crushed by tanks, incenerated by naplam and shot by bullets. What's just some landmines?
But the problem is that landmines persist long after a conflict, that means that even if the geopolitical nature of the landscape has changed and the bullets and shells stop flying and killing, the landmines still persist in their job of killing and miaming. And this time it will be the noncombatants who get the brunt of the force, more often then not an innocent 5-year old child, farmer or mine disposal personnel whoes future to have a normal life is destroyed by a landmine from a war that's long gone. AP landmines are causing more trouble then they're worth, it takes 70 cents to bury a landmine, and about 7,000 dollars to remove it. Not all wars stay around as long as the landmines do.
I wouldn't mind AP mines like the claymore though... -
sar80 and sar88 did found some buyers. heard the thailand marines took delivery of thousands of sar88. but it took a few frequent chamber explosions to make thai decide to kep them in storage instead.
-
arh?! abit futuristic rite? scarly if its true... middle of the nite those ppl who stay at ghim moh area can see the water from reservoir draining away to reveal hidden bunker den seeing some flying gundams after which the bunker closes and the water pumped back as it was...Originally posted by Shotgun:Best still are our Gundam-assault suits. I like the one hidden under MacRitchie reservoir most, has a laser blade and Medium Ranged missiles.
Since we have so many underground storage bunkers.... who noes if this could be true one day
*crosses fingers* -
no... YOU are missing MY point my dear reptile...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:You're missing the point, my dim witted friend. Most people don't really care if landmines blow off the legs of soldiers, after all it's the poor bloody infantry's job to be battered by arty, strafed by airplanes, crushed by tanks, incenerated by naplam and shot by bullets. What's just some landmines?
But the problem is that landmines persist long after a conflict, that means that even if the geopolitical nature of the landscape has changed and the bullets and shells stop flying and killing, the landmines still persist in their job of killing and miaming. And this time it will be the noncombatants who get the brunt of the force, more often then not an innocent 5-year old child, farmer or mine disposal personnel whoes future to have a normal life is destroyed by a landmine from a war that's long gone. AP landmines are causing more trouble then they're worth, it takes 70 cents to bury a landmine, and about 7,000 dollars to remove it. Not all wars stay around as long as the landmines do.
I wouldn't mind AP mines like the claymore though...
the issue here is not whether mines are good or bad, but ultimately how its deployed and by WHOM...
like i said... responsible military powers do not indiscriminately toss AP mines around like confetti... they do have a legitimate defensive roles in places like the korean peninsula...
current developments on now to skim the restrictions of the convention follow similar concepts like the claymore mine are still insidious killing/maiming machines which can STILL be used to kill civillians.
i am familiar with the arguments against landmines and i don't see how banning them without spending more efforts to clean up the ones already out there will solve the immediate problem.
i guess we agree to disagree on this one... -
Its sad when some kid walks over a landmine, blows his leg off. Its even more sad when the mine was laid over 30 years ago, by former enemies. Unexploded munitions such as landmines and bombs are just a faint reminder of the consequences of war. It not only kills the soldiers in it, it also kills their children, and their children's children. Today, France, Germany as well as other European countries are still busy digging up and disposing of allied bombs that used to rain on their cities more than 60 years ago.
However, given Singapore's position. I sympathise with the need for counter-mobility weapons such as mines. If the situation arises where we need to slow our opponents down, I'd use the mines and worry about the consequences later. -
Smart mine technology would make landmines a viable weapon. But for now it's deploying them almost always results in disaster, to observe basic facts, how many modern day crackpot military commanders bother to use mines properly? The idea that not restricting their deployment because a minoirity of militaries use them with responsibility is overly-utopic. Just go to cambodia.