Weapons Singapore Gave Up?
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can't confrim whether how true the news are:
1: singapore's FH2000 will be sent for upgrading , likely to be kept in reserve while a battion strength FH would be sold to monoco;
2: all active unit would convert to the new SPH gun with the UD's M109A5 chasis by 2004, leavin the FH 2000 in reserves; -
depends where u heard it... if its in the open, state the source... if its just a rumour u heard "somewhere", keep it that way... we'll just all wait for the press release...
i'm sure everyone is eagerly anticipating the official deployment of the self-propelled howitzer. the development is no secret... the former CDF, lim chuan poh has talked about it with JDW in an interview. -
This kind of reminds me...i was travelling back home and while I was sitting at a bus around Jalan Bahar, i noticed an 18-wheeler transporting an armoured vehicle...it was quite normal to see the Army transport armour to camps but figure this, it was covered when its was not raining. Figuring its just an SM1 (thats AMX-13SM1), i looked again, but I noticed that the shape is not of the SM1...rather something like a Self-propelled Artillery vehicle...like the Paladin. heck, its gun is bigger than the SM1 ...is it just me or i'm seeing the wrong things?
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[quote]Originally posted by foga:
[b]can't confrim whether how true the news are:
1: singapore's FH2000 will be sent for upgrading , likely to be kept in reserve while a battion strength FH would be sold to monoco;
Can't imagine why a tiny kingdom renown for casinos and its lifestyle of the rich and famous would need a battalion strength of howitzers. To protect against France? You probably meant Morocco?
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you might be right.......i saw along a road at something like 10 in the morning.....a chasis being transported(no gun,tracks,electronics and stuff) At 1st i thought it was like some APC......but it lacks armour......so i'm not sure anymore.....Originally posted by superspitfire:This kind of reminds me...i was travelling back home and while I was sitting at a bus around Jalan Bahar, i noticed an 18-wheeler transporting an armoured vehicle...it was quite normal to see the Army transport armour to camps but figure this, it was covered when its was not raining. Figuring its just an SM1 (thats AMX-13SM1), i looked again, but I noticed that the shape is not of the SM1...rather something like a Self-propelled Artillery vehicle...like the Paladin. heck, its gun is bigger than the SM1 ...is it just me or i'm seeing the wrong things?
unless they add armour on later<-----rumour -
For point 2, I don't think so lor. Singapore only brought 54 M109 hulls.Originally posted by foga:can't confrim whether how true the news are:
1: singapore's FH2000 will be sent for upgrading , likely to be kept in reserve while a battion strength FH would be sold to monoco;
2: all active unit would convert to the new SPH gun with the UD's M109A5 chasis by 2004, leavin the FH 2000 in reserves;
That's only 3 Bn's worth and you still have give some to schools.
Of course if S'pore clandestily got some more from countries that are retiring their M109s (UK for example), then I got nothing to say.
There wasn't a real effort at keeping this project a secret, it's as if they wanted people to know... -
I doubt the SAF is replacing the FH2000. They have been in service for less than a decade! It would be more plausible if the FH-88 are to be upgraded to the same standard as the FH2000 and then replace the M71S gradually. That way, we just have the FH2000 as std arty gun, with the new Self Propelled Howitzer and the LG105 supplementing. [/quote]
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i still think that MINDEF should buy the ST's new heli-portable LWSPH... that one will really increase both mobility and firepower
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sometime i wonder... is it really that mobile? u hook to heli... den to deployment site deploy den fire den ceasefire den hook up den flyOriginally posted by CX:i still think that MINDEF should buy the ST's new heli-portable LWSPH... that one will really increase both mobility and firepower
whoa... a lot of time... the helo must totally be stationed together with the firing unit... what about the threat of anti air missile armed guerillas in occupied (semi hostile)areas? bad weather that is enuf to ground the heli...
den about the howitzer mounted on tanks.. the m109... how are they? advise... thanks -
hmm. the LWSPH is only 39 calibre right not 52 calibre. So we will be giving up some range.Originally posted by CX:i still think that MINDEF should buy the ST's new heli-portable LWSPH... that one will really increase both mobility and firepower
I think the good thing about the LWSPH is not really on its heliportability but its ability to be self-propelled. Also should be faster to deploy right? Maybe should go our RDF forces (aka 21st Div). -
the LWSPH has road speed of 60km/h lah! why should the heli be nearby???Originally posted by MushyMaro:sometime i wonder... is it really that mobile? u hook to heli... den to deployment site deploy den fire den ceasefire den hook up den fly
whoa... a lot of time... the helo must totally be stationed together with the firing unit... what about the threat of anti air missile armed guerillas in occupied (semi hostile)areas? bad weather that is enuf to ground the heli...
den about the howitzer mounted on tanks.. the m109... how are they? advise... thanks
the whole point is to use a heli to deploy it cos some places may not have good roads for towed artillery to access... the LWSPH can make do with any road to get away AFTER it releases its salvo...
u try hooking up a bunch of FH2000 to a remote area, set them up, fire off a salvo and hook them up again and get ready to run before counter-artillery battery blasts u to smithereens...
i'm no arty expert, but i think the FH2000 is not a very good shoot-and-scoot platform lor... -
fh2000 is indeed not a very gd shoot and scoot weapon but it does serve it's purpose well. in fact the artilery guys have tried during exercises in shoot and scoot ops, and the results are good. for a heavy, although liteby other countries' standard, sp gun like fh2000, which is not designed to peform such duty, it is an achievement. and from wat i know, LWSPH is not gonna be inducted into SAF, well at least the foreseeable future.Originally posted by CX:the LWSPH has road speed of 60km/h lah! why should the heli be nearby???
the whole point is to use a heli to deploy it cos some places may not have good roads for towed artillery to access... the LWSPH can make do with any road to get away AFTER it releases its salvo...
u try hooking up a bunch of FH2000 to a remote area, set them up, fire off a salvo and hook them up again and get ready to run before counter-artillery battery blasts u to smithereens...
i'm no arty expert, but i think the FH2000 is not a very good shoot-and-scoot platform lor... -
Why not?Originally posted by foga:and from wat i know, LWSPH is not gonna be inducted into SAF, well at least the foreseeable future. -
for one thing, mindef has not expressed interestOriginally posted by Joe Black:Why not?
. guess they're putting their bets on the SP platform... -
the lwsph has a 39 calibre gun, the proposed weapon system on the M109A has a 52 calibre gun if rumours of it mounting the same gun from the FH-2000 appears to be true...... then we are talking about range and accuracy here......but i really prefer a weapon systems (155mm) that could be air portable...gives us the mobility and firepower to those troops that are behind enemy lines e.g. guards & commandos.....the current fiat 105mm lacks the firepower.....by opting for a sph platform instead of one that could be air portable probably outlines the thinking of the higher command...maybe they are thinking of something else...have we missed anything?
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Maybe SAF wants more "surviable"(spelling) platforms like the M109.Originally posted by kanzer:the
firepower.....by opting for a sph platform instead of one that could be air portable probably outlines the thinking of the higher command...maybe they are thinking of something else...have we missed anything?
Currently the FH2000 and the new LWSPH offer "zero" protectio for the crew.
Also, with the formation on a "Amoured Div"(as mentioned in "Defending the Lion City"), we will probably need "amoured SPH" as well right??? -
Well, if the (long overdue) direction is to give arty protected SP platforms, then I also believe that should extend to the SP mortars. The current M113 120mm mortar carriers provide very little protection to the guys from counter battery and small arm fires. SAF could perhaps replace current SP mortars on M113 with the AMOS systems mounted on Terrex AV81, M113 or Bionix which provide not only protection but also a higher rate of fire given that each of the AMOS system has 2 barrels. Second addition I can think of is to have the ST Engg BRONCO ATTC carrying the 120mm Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System.Originally posted by spencer99:Maybe SAF wants more "surviable"(spelling) platforms like the M109.
Currently the FH2000 and the new LWSPH offer "zero" protectio for the crew.
Also, with the formation on a "Amoured Div"(as mentioned in "Defending the Lion City"), we will probably need "amoured SPH" as well right??? -
Agree. Other then more protection, it will also have a higher rate fire. More firepower.Originally posted by Joe Black:Well, if the (long overdue) direction is to give arty protected SP platforms, then I also believe that should extend to the SP mortars. The current M113 120mm mortar carriers provide very little protection to the guys from counter battery and small arm fires. SAF could perhaps replace current SP mortars on M113 with the AMOS systems mounted on Terrex AV81, M113 or Bionix which provide not only protection but also a higher rate of fire given that each of the AMOS system has 2 barrels. Second addition I can think of is to have the ST Engg BRONCO ATTC carrying the 120mm Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System.
I have a feeling that the "120mm Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System" will probably be loaded on a wheeled chasis and will probably be replacing the Arty Bns currently armed with 120mm towed mortars.
Current (my estimate correct me if I am wrong)
120mm mortars - support Infantry Brigades
FH2000 155mm How - Inf Division - Div Arty
120mm M113 - support Armoured Brigades
Future (my personal view)
105mm LG - Support RDF Brigade (heli-capable)
155mm LWSPH - RDF Div - Div Arty (heli-capable)
FH2000 155mm - Inf Division - Div Arty
120mm Super rapid mortar - Support Inf Brigade
M109 155mm - Arm Div - Div Arty
120mm Super rapid mortar (Bronco-mounted)- Support Arm Brigades -
Good thoughts on the M113 120 SP mortar. The problem is, 155 gunners are more susceptible to counterbattery fire than mortarmen. It takes less than 2 mins to get the first shot out of the tubes; it takes abt 5 mins for gunners to crank off the first shot. To shoot and scoot? The SP mortar carrier can leave its engine running and be gone after the first shot long before the first enemy arty round hits you. Alll this, of cos' is without camouflage net cover for both mortar and 155 gun.Originally posted by Joe Black:Well, if the (long overdue) direction is to give arty protected SP platforms, then I also believe that should extend to the SP mortars. The current M113 120mm mortar carriers provide very little protection to the guys from counter battery and small arm fires. SAF could perhaps replace current SP mortars on M113 with the AMOS systems mounted on Terrex AV81, M113 or Bionix which provide not only protection but also a higher rate of fire given that each of the AMOS system has 2 barrels. Second addition I can think of is to have the ST Engg BRONCO ATTC carrying the 120mm Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System.
But I agree with you on the need to reequip with the Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System (SRAMS). Just not on the Bronco. It's a poor firing platform. The stability isn't good or wide enough. Plus, a towed SRAMS system has to manoever forever before it actually gets the correct "reading position". It's even harder to traverse the system. Additionally, the essence of an SP mortar carrier is its self-containment; ability to fire from within the vehicle without having to transport rounds on an external carrier. In fact, ability to operate within the vehicle without having to leave,with the exception of having to plant the firing poles. I guess the SRAMS would be best suited if it were mounted on the M113 chassis again.
My 2 cents...
Action Front!! -
[quote]Originally posted by spencer99:
Agree. Other then more protection, it will also have a higher rate fire. More firepower.
I have a feeling that the "120mm Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System" will probably be loaded on a wheeled chasis and will probably be replacing the Arty Bns currently armed with 120mm towed mortars.
all active arty bn convert to 155mm FH2000 liao. all 120mm tempellas transferred to infantry unit's support coy liao. -
Originally posted by foga:
thanks for clarifying. I am really out of date
[[b]quote]Originally posted by spencer99:
Agree. Other then more protection, it will also have a higher rate fire. More firepower.
I have a feeling that the "120mm Super Rapid Advanced Mortar System" will probably be loaded on a wheeled chasis and will probably be replacing the Arty Bns currently armed with 120mm towed mortars.
all active arty bn convert to 155mm FH2000 liao. all 120mm tempellas transferred to infantry unit's support coy liao.
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Actually they designed the SRMS to be fired from within the Bronco. Though I see no problems with it being used with the M113... or prehaps even the Bionix FSV...
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no problem. share share lor. heard the new SPH m109A5 based gun would be inductd into service this year.Originally posted by spencer99:thanks for clarifying. I am really out of date -
Really? Wow, that'd be interesting. I'm just wondering the level of armour protection on an SRAMS Bronco though...Bionix FSV might be a better choice.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Actually they designed the SRMS to be fired from within the Bronco. Though I see no problems with it being used with the M113... or prehaps even the Bionix FSV... -
I have come to notice that there is a different in length of the turret of this two bionix in the following pictures.
http://www.ifrance.com/ArmyReco/Asie/Singapour/vehicules_legers/Bionix/Bionix_Singapour_05.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/ssvong/bionix/Bix21.jpg
Wat does it show?? Is it an answer to the Anti-tank Bionix ( although i believe the turret can onli perform limited anti-tank capability ) or it is a new variant of the Bionix Armoured Vehicles.
Or should i say , they are different tanks.