A Singapore aircraft-carrier?
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for fark's sake......................close this stupid brain-dead thread lah..................
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Interesting news about the Russian Mistral deal. Still no real confirmation as to the cost which ranges from US$380m to US$800m each.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/22681/
Would give a rough benchmark indication as to how much an endurance 160 would cost.
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
Go to google maps and you can see 1 big nimitz class carrier parked at CNB.
There's more than enough room to park several carriers if required.
Thats CVN 73 USS George Washington. I see 2 Arleigh Burke DDGs and 1 Ticonderoga CG parked nearby. Can't ID the other non-RSN vessels though.I'm guessing the one beside the Ticon is a fleet oiler or supply ship. The one berthed in front of it with that big helipad I have no idea.
Anyone know what the 2 vessels parked near the corvettes are?
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497th Combat Training Squadron
Noisy, do you often name combat squadrons "Training" squadrons?
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Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:
Thats CVN 73 USS George Washington. I see 2 Arleigh Burke DDGs and 1 Ticonderoga CG parked nearby. Can't ID the other non-RSN vessels though.I'm guessing the one beside the Ticon is a fleet oiler or supply ship. The one berthed in front of it with that big helipad I have no idea.
Anyone know what the 2 vessels parked near the corvettes are?
Tot the helo pad one is the new sub rescue vessel followed by the 3 endurance above. To the right of the 3 endurance is another endurance followed by the Formidables. Then the sub pen, and the fearless PVs below that with likely 2 earlier LSTs.http://toyhaven.blogspot.com/2010/09/submarine-rescue.html
The DDGs should be the Cambelltown and the Chung Hoon. Tico could be shiloh or cowpens.
Realised the support vessel is quite short (under 120m). Originally tot it could have been the Amelia Earhart which was in Sembawang shipyard earlier but most replenishment vessels are 200+m.
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The "Arleigh Burke DDGs" are actually JDS Sazanami (DD-113) and JDS Samidare (DD-106). Quite different from Burke class. JMSDF ships can be easily identified by the unique helipad paint scheme.
Correct, the big helipad ship is MV Swift Rescue, commercial vessel chartered by RSN.
I think one of the frigates is hosting a function for visiting USN.
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In the news...
French CV (Charles De Gaulle) is involved in Libya ops...
even as British CV (Invincible) goes to Turkey to be scrapped.
and....
story about the world's oldest aircraft carrier being found in the Thames river...
http://www.southkoreanews.net/story.php?rid=43993022
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Mistral Negotiations Stall Over Tech, Price Issues
quote: The two sides were reported last month as being unable to agree on the contract price as Russia insisted on paying no more than $980 million while France insisted on a contract of at least $1.15 billion.
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China aircraft carrier watched by region
Christian science monitor article
"Based on the feedback from our partners and allies in the Pacific, I think the change in perception by the region will be significant," Adm. Robert Willard told the Senate Armed Services Committee. Willard also noted the "remarkable growth" of China's military.
But he viewed that impact as largely symbolic, as there would be a long period of training, development and exercises before the carrier becomes operational.
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updates on the Mistral deal
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Russia-to-Order-French-Mistral-LHDs-05749/
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Want also nowhere to park. We got less territorial water than we have land man.
wait a while lah, we are busy cutting a chunk of water from pedra branca.
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The French do not send LHD vessels to far-off places like Singapore for no rhyme or reason.
Is that really such a big market for mistral type of vessels in this region for it to be sent to IMDEX? That's why I find it interesting to see DCNS sending the Mistral to Singapore. Could DCNS be creating LHD interest for RSN or create an opportunity for RSN officials to inspect after noting existing interest? The latter could be the case or ST eng would not have come up with the Endurance 160.
imho, I think RSN seems increasingly interested in a flat top (not necessarily a CV).
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
The French do not send LHD vessels to far-off places like Singapore for no rhyme or reason.
Is that really such a big market for mistral type of vessels in this region for it to be sent to IMDEX? That's why I find it interesting to see DCNS sending the Mistral to Singapore. Could DCNS be creating LHD interest for RSN or create an opportunity for RSN officials to inspect after noting existing interest? The latter could be the case or ST eng would not have come up with the Endurance 160.
imho, I think RSN seems increasingly interested in a flat top (not necessarily a CV).
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/singapore/rss-endurance-160.htm
Endurance 160 LHD
In late 2010 Singaporean naval yard Singapore Technologies Marine (ST Marine) unveiled a new variant of its Endurance-class Landing Platform Dock (LPD). The new Endurance 160 design is a 14,500 ton warship with a full length flight deck. The length overall is 163.7 meters, with the flight deck around 146m long by 25.6m wide with five deck landing spots. The RSN had encountered the Italian Navy's 133-meter long San Giorgio-class LPDs in the Persian Gulf during Operation Blue Orchid 1 and came away impressed with the capabilities packed into the compact hull form.
Endurance 160 drawings show two deck elevators, one is sited forward on the starboard side and the other amidships close to the aft end of the island superstructure. But deck-edge lifts would allow out-size helos to maneuver into the hangar bay. United States Navy LPHs and the Spanish Navy helicopter carrier (which was derived from Admiral Zumwalt's Sea Control Ship design) have a stern deck elevator which allows rapid movement of helos from hangar to flight deck. The island is a blockhouse with a single mast and funnel and two levels, and a flight control station aft of the island.
The complement is quoted as 140 personnel, with another 150 for its air wing, with a troop capacity of 400 troops. The warship has a quoted top speed of 22 knots - five knots better than the quoted 17 kts top speed for the smaller Endurance 140. Range is stated to be "more than 7,000 nautical miles" when sailing at 15 kts. Gun armament options on the foc'sle and stern quarter are customer options for placing medium calibre guns and close-in weapon systems (CIWS). The weapon stations do not require deck penetration.
The design draws heavily upon the Republic of Singapore Navy's (RSN) experience with its four 141-metre long Endurance-class tank landing ships (LST). It is unclear whether the Endurance 160 will offer bow doors, as on the 141-meter long Endurance 140 class. The 22 kts maximum speed of this class may exclude bow doors, which could weaken the forward end of the ship, although the Italian Navy's 133-meter long San Giorgio-class LPDs have bow doors and a 22 knot speed. It is also unclear whether the new Endurance variant would carry floating pontoons, strapped to the side of its hull, used to discharge vehicles and troops during logistics-over-the-shore (LOTS) operations.
The Endurance 160 is designed to carry two Fast Craft Utility water-jet propelled landing craft and a pair of smaller FCEPs. It is likely that the landing craft complement will include the new drive-through design, which ST Marine designed specifically for LOTS operations involving main battle tanks, which could include but are not limited to Leopard 2-type MBTs. While the Endurance 140 cannot operate hovercraft, since the well dock is not heat-shielded from jet blasts, it remains to be seen whether the enlarged Endurance 160 with the full flight deck will have a protected well dock for hovercraft.
The Endurance 160 complement of landing craft and naval aviation assets in a small hull creates operational compromises. If the ship is meant to operate close inshore, close to the surf zone of a contested coastline so it can deploy landing craft expediently, the operational advantage of lurking farther offshore and hitting the zone of operations using the embarked air wing is lost.
The Endurance 160 does not appear to have sufficient hangar space for helicopters to be struck down for all-weather protection. It appears the air wing would be embarked to its area of operations for short duration missions before returning to base. In the case of a peacetime HADR mission, the vehicle deck would presumably not be filled with war material and some space would probably be reserved for helo maintenance
San Giorgio-class LPDs - which Singapore navy was impress with, and influence the design of 160.
A high possibility that singapore will be replace the current endurance 140 - news of thailand - below is bid to sell to chile . A high chance we soon see endurance 160 in production.
http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2010/11/singapore-offers-lpd-for-chilean-navy.html -
Put five attacking the AH-64D Apache Longbow on it there you have a small and powerful ship to protect singapore.
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btw, the S-70B can also carry hellfires.
Equally important is the ASW defensive capability. More S-70Bs can make the difference against increasing likelihood of submarine interdiction.
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China's Varyyag CV expected to go on sea trials next week...
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=6877585&c=ASI&s=SEA
Looks like China finally joined the ranks of CV owners.
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Refit complete? Waiting for pictures!
I hope this removes the last barriers to more capable ships than the Dokdo and Hyuga, so that thiis CV will not rule the waves. Based on LKY's interview in Japan, I think this is also what Singapore would want.
The fact that it is based in Dalian instead of nearer Taiwan or the South China Sea indicates China's intentions.
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ST Eng finally releases brochure for Endurance 160.
http://www.stengg.com/CoyCapPro/detail.aspx?pdid=518
Can comfortably fit at least 6 F-35Bs below deck with 5 helo spots & 7 spots below deck. To operate the F-35B, it will need a forward deck extension + possible ski jump + wider elevator which the design appears to allow. If convert decks 3-5 as well, then in theory, the Endurance should be able to carry 5x3+6 = 21 F-35Bs. Less 1 for dual elevators.
Amendments drawn to approx scale
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Pictures: Varyag and the full scale flight deck on land.
http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/varyagtransform.htm
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Well, the Chinese thinks they need 3 carriers. http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7248942&c=ASI&s=SEA Over the past week, Reuters reports 2 building in Jiangnan shipyard in addition to the Varyag which was testing its smoke stack last week. Signs of engine testing. The Varyag can carry 2X J-15 fighters. That can give air forces in the region a pretty big scare (MY has 18 Su-30+8 F-18s, ID has 20+ F16s/Sukhois).
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China's first aircraft carrier starts sea-trials... http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-first-aircraft-carrier-starts-sea-trial-033213762.html
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China's first CV ends maiden run. http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7393949&c=SEA&s=TOP
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William Choong's article that appeared in today's ST. Didn't want to burst his bubble but the CV isn't called the "shi lang". Naming will be done in Oct. The 1962 India skirmish was also started by the Indians :) http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=20921&sec=3 Reasons to fear China's aircraft carrier Last week, China said it had deployed its first aircraft carrier for an inaugural sea trial. Speaking at a Chinese Defence Ministry briefing last month, Colonel Geng Yansheng stressed that the carrier would be used for "research, experiment and training" and would not affect China's defensive naval strategy. Across the region, however, the deployment has triggered concern. Japan, for example, has asked Beijing to explain the rationale behind the carrier, given that the warship is "highly manoeuvrable and offensive". As Chinese officials have stressed repeatedly, China has every right to acquire a carrier. Col Geng said that China's long coastline and vast expanse of territorial waters necessitated such a warship. For many Chinese, the carrier also represents a prestige acquisition. In 1987, General Liu Huaqing, considered by many to be the father of China's modern navy, said: "Without an aircraft carrier, I will die with my eyelids open; the Chinese Navy needs to build an aircraft carrier." In addition, both foreign and Chinese analysts agree that the carrier - which was acquired from Ukraine in 1998 for US$20 million - will not have any military or operational significance for some time to come. A full-fledged carrier battle group requires a carrier and an escort force of attack submarines, cruisers and destroyers. Landing fast-moving fighter aircraft on a carrier flight deck is a complicated task that requires years of training. "China's "starter carrier" is of very limited military utility, and will primarily serve to confer prestige on a rising great power, to help the military master basic procedures, and to project a bit of power," wrote Gabe Collins and Andrew Erickson at China Sign Post, a website that scours first-hand Chinese sources. That said, concerns about the Shi Lang, as the carrier has been reportedly named after a Qing-era commander who conquered Taiwan, centre on the context of China's carrier development and its current behaviour. First, the acquisition has been a tad disingenuous. When it was purchased in 1998, Beijing said that the carrier would be a "floating casino". Last week, China's Defence Ministry punted further, stating officially for the first time that it would go on a sea trial - a prelude to an operational deployment. Second, the acquisition cannot be divorced from regional perceptions about China's recent assertive behaviour over the South China Sea. Already, countries such as Japan, Australia and Vietnam have inched closer to the United States and acquired submarines that could be used to target aircraft carriers. Writing last week, PLA Daily correspondent Guo Jianyue added to the well of suspicion by saying that the carrier could be used to settle territorial disputes. Third, China has argued that carriers could be used for "soft power" missions such as humanitarian assistance. One cannot disagree with this; the US Navy has used its carriers for humanitarian assistance missions in Indonesia and more recently in Japan. But one cannot run away from the fact that carriers - particularly those with fixed-wing aircraft - are inherently offensive platforms. Fourth, China's contention that the carrier is part of its defensive strategy should be taken with a pinch of salt. China has often argued that even offensive moves are consistent with its defensive doctrine. In a paper on China's strategic culture, analyst Andrew Scobell argues that China's military strategy is essentially one of "active defence": While emphasising a defensive strategy, the strategy effectively blurs the distinction between offence and defence. Thus, China's attack on Vietnam in 1979, and its wars against India and the former Soviet Union in 1962 and 1969 respectively were all labelled 'self-defence counter-attacks' or ziwei fanji. Lastly, Mr Guo's contention that the carrier could be used to settle territorial disputes represents official thinking, given that the PLA Daily is a state-run paper. Mr Guo argues that the "deterrent of the carrier is usually larger than its practical effectiveness" and that the "political significance of building aircraft carriers is greater than its military significance". Again, such an argument derives from China's interpretation of traditional Western concepts of deterrence and compellence, which entail the use of coercion to get other countries to bend to one's will. As Mr Guo argues, the carrier could be used in disputes over the South China Sea. But like nuclear weapons, its potency does not derive from its actual use, but the threat of use. "(The carrier) will start affecting things like South China Sea negotiations, not because of an overt change in military balance, but it will be looming, brooding in the background," Mr Dean Cheng, a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation, told The Washington Post. China's carrier does not really change Asia's balance of power for now, says Professor Huang Jing at the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy. But the deployment is the "beginning of a change in the power balance in the Asia-Pacific" that all regional players will have to reckon with in their decision-making, he adds. In short, there is little reason to fear China's carrier development for now. In the long run, however, what China uses the carrier for will be a source of concern.
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Originally posted by storywolf:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/singapore/rss-endurance-160.htm
Endurance 160 LHD
In late 2010 Singaporean naval yard Singapore Technologies Marine (ST Marine) unveiled a new variant of its Endurance-class Landing Platform Dock (LPD). The new Endurance 160 design is a 14,500 ton warship with a full length flight deck. The length overall is 163.7 meters, with the flight deck around 146m long by 25.6m wide with five deck landing spots. The RSN had encountered the Italian Navy's 133-meter long San Giorgio-class LPDs in the Persian Gulf during Operation Blue Orchid 1 and came away impressed with the capabilities packed into the compact hull form.
Endurance 160 drawings show two deck elevators, one is sited forward on the starboard side and the other amidships close to the aft end of the island superstructure. But deck-edge lifts would allow out-size helos to maneuver into the hangar bay. United States Navy LPHs and the Spanish Navy helicopter carrier (which was derived from Admiral Zumwalt's Sea Control Ship design) have a stern deck elevator which allows rapid movement of helos from hangar to flight deck. The island is a blockhouse with a single mast and funnel and two levels, and a flight control station aft of the island.
The complement is quoted as 140 personnel, with another 150 for its air wing, with a troop capacity of 400 troops. The warship has a quoted top speed of 22 knots - five knots better than the quoted 17 kts top speed for the smaller Endurance 140. Range is stated to be "more than 7,000 nautical miles" when sailing at 15 kts. Gun armament options on the foc'sle and stern quarter are customer options for placing medium calibre guns and close-in weapon systems (CIWS). The weapon stations do not require deck penetration.
The design draws heavily upon the Republic of Singapore Navy's (RSN) experience with its four 141-metre long Endurance-class tank landing ships (LST). It is unclear whether the Endurance 160 will offer bow doors, as on the 141-meter long Endurance 140 class. The 22 kts maximum speed of this class may exclude bow doors, which could weaken the forward end of the ship, although the Italian Navy's 133-meter long San Giorgio-class LPDs have bow doors and a 22 knot speed. It is also unclear whether the new Endurance variant would carry floating pontoons, strapped to the side of its hull, used to discharge vehicles and troops during logistics-over-the-shore (LOTS) operations.
The Endurance 160 is designed to carry two Fast Craft Utility water-jet propelled landing craft and a pair of smaller FCEPs. It is likely that the landing craft complement will include the new drive-through design, which ST Marine designed specifically for LOTS operations involving main battle tanks, which could include but are not limited to Leopard 2-type MBTs. While the Endurance 140 cannot operate hovercraft, since the well dock is not heat-shielded from jet blasts, it remains to be seen whether the enlarged Endurance 160 with the full flight deck will have a protected well dock for hovercraft.
The Endurance 160 complement of landing craft and naval aviation assets in a small hull creates operational compromises. If the ship is meant to operate close inshore, close to the surf zone of a contested coastline so it can deploy landing craft expediently, the operational advantage of lurking farther offshore and hitting the zone of operations using the embarked air wing is lost.
The Endurance 160 does not appear to have sufficient hangar space for helicopters to be struck down for all-weather protection. It appears the air wing would be embarked to its area of operations for short duration missions before returning to base. In the case of a peacetime HADR mission, the vehicle deck would presumably not be filled with war material and some space would probably be reserved for helo maintenance
San Giorgio-class LPDs - which Singapore navy was impress with, and influence the design of 160.
A high possibility that singapore will be replace the current endurance 140 - news of thailand - below is bid to sell to chile . A high chance we soon see endurance 160 in production.
http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2010/11/singapore-offers-lpd-for-chilean-navy.html1000% S'pore will take part in future Zionist-NATO-USA military campaigns...................
why ?
becoz S'pore is also another Zionist-controlled colony
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Originally posted by weasel1962:
Well, the Chinese thinks they need 3 carriers.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7248942&...
Over the past week, Reuters reports 2 building in Jiangnan shipyard in addition to the Varyag which was testing its smoke stack last week. Signs of engine testing.
The Varyag can carry 2X J-15 fighters. That can give air forces in the region a pretty big scare (MY has 18 Su-30+8 F-18s, ID has 20+ F16s/Sukhois).
they have the Ah Nehs to worry about................
those Indians have defected.................
China's oil supplies via the Indian Ocean will be cut.............
