Standard anti-ballastic/ bullet proof vest,.. ..for the SAF.
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Crap. .. hate to think abt the Bionix having no aircon . . . that really sux considering Singapore's temperature, wish they install some kind of thermal system . . .haven been to NS, yar, I'm another facts-n-figures fella, though I dun pretend to have tried anything. . .
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yea ET stick n plate is a deadly weapon...kena hack by a old plate cfm die..sharpen the edge to the coreOriginally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:You can fix a bayonet on the SAR-21, but most bulpups a lot less effective at bayonet fighting because they are shorter... then again, a bayonet is more of a last ditch weapon so this isn't exactly a massive weapon... I suggest you grip the front part and use the ploymer axe-shaped like a blade and swing the entire thing to butt stroke people... But I suppose hand-to-hand combat will get less emphasis in the future, because you dun see the OCIWS getting a serious melee outfit... prehaps you could use your sharpened entrenching tool as a melee weapon... think the marines do it... one hit comfirm disembowel the person one... and you will end up scooping out his guts... -
the heat is not so much of a problem, but it is the god-damn space in the trooper compartment that really bothers most AIs (Armour Infantry). Sure, it will be fine if the whole section has an average height of 1.6m, but has anybody inform those "intellectuals" in Mindef and DSTA, ST that the avg. height of young singaporeans have increased? They just have to go to Orchard Road to find out!!!Originally posted by laser51088:Crap. .. hate to think abt the Bionix having no aircon . . . that really sux considering Singapore's temperature, wish they install some kind of thermal system . . .haven been to NS, yar, I'm another facts-n-figures fella, though I dun pretend to have tried anything. . .
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Somebody should tell SBS that too... anybody above 1.7 meters cannot sit down in their cattle car seats properly...
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Originally posted by foga:singapore so hot but they dun invest in a good air conditioning system for it's armor. sad.........
40SAR huh?Originally posted by laser51088:Crap. .. hate to think abt the Bionix having no aircon . . . that really sux considering Singapore's temperature, wish they install some kind of thermal system . . .haven been to NS, yar, I'm another facts-n-figures fella, though I dun pretend to have tried anything. . .
Come on guys, let's be realistic. we don't shut ourselve inside the APC. We need to stick our heads up and man those MGs. When the APC moves, air gets in and regulates to air in it, get rid of all the bad (and sweaty) smell. Seriously, APCs are properly sealed for air-con regulation and it drains way too much power. Troop are more likely to bother about other stuff than "where's my air-con". Like wat warspite say, we are more concern with "push those fullpacks in, we ain't got much space for that box of ration and the attached medic!"
let's not be too spoilt okay, we are troops not boy scout on picnic.
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yea good idea....can't sit properlyOriginally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Somebody should tell SBS that too... anybody above 1.7 meters cannot sit down in their cattle car seats properly... -
Actually comfort does play a large part in battle effectiveness... if the troops are cramped, half-suffocated and unable to move for hours during transport, by the time they dismount, their fighting ability is already compromised. That's why the idea is to provide adequate, but not excessive comfort. Why do you think SAF is upgrading to more comfortable air-con trucks? Because they know that it will raise combat readiness by a lot.Originally posted by Silenthunter:
Come on guys, let's be realistic. we don't shut ourselve inside the APC. We need to stick our heads up and man those MGs. When the APC moves, air gets in and regulates to air in it, get rid of all the bad (and sweaty) smell. Seriously, APCs are properly sealed for air-con regulation and it drains way too much power. Troop are more likely to bother about other stuff than "where's my air-con". Like wat foga say, we are more concern with "push those fullpacks in, we ain't got much space for that box of ration and the attached medic!"
let's not be too spoilt okay, we are troops not boy scout on picnic. -
actually the five-tonners are only aircondition in the driver's cab. can take two V com.
but the back still the same, not much difference except for addition of seatbelts for hose sitting near the back.
if you call installing aircon an luxury, then wat do you say abt the aussie m113? got aircon, got water cooler some more! water cooler lei! -
We do have air-conditioners...the two/three small black fans that conditions the air around APC...
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haha...........
god bless saf. -
Yah lor, you can get heatstroke by sitting in an APC for too long on a hot day... air-con is simply environmental control, it certainly should be implemented...
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Actually comfort does play a large part in battle effectiveness... if the troops are cramped, half-suffocated and unable to move for hours during transport, by the time they dismount, their fighting ability is already compromised. That's why the idea is to provide adequate, but not excessive comfort. Why do you think SAF is upgrading to more comfortable air-con trucks? Because they know that it will raise combat readiness by a lot.Originally posted by foga:actually the five-tonners are only aircondition in the driver's cab. can take two V com.
but the back still the same, not much difference except for addition of seatbelts for hose sitting near the back.
if you call installing aircon an luxury, then wat do you say abt the aussie m113? got aircon, got water cooler some more! water cooler lei!
air-con doesn't help in battle effectiveness. It's proven that it make you sleepy and lazy. And you are more likely to getting heatstroke while marching and running than getting it while sitting in an APC. Seriously guys, have you been to the army??Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Yah lor, you can get heatstroke by sitting in an APC for too long on a hot day... air-con is simply environmental control, it certainly should be implemented...
APCs, be it M113 or Bionix is not as iron hot as you think cos hatches and vents are all open, ventilation is tip top and put air-con will be ineffective... it's like putting aircon on a landrover. If you are talk about "luxury", I think they should put more space in the APC than putting air-con.
power of the APC is so important that it cannot afford to be wasted on "luxury" that you won't even feel it. don't forgot, our APCs have tonnes of Electronic-devices to power, not just a dashboard and the hifi.
Okay, no point explaining so much, you just have to ride on a APC/A-vehicle (not just free rides like those in open houses but actual ops)to know wat I mean. I guess warspite, being in the armor family, will know what I mean. -
I remember the last time I saw it with my mates, SAR-21 has no bayonet catch. And I remembered the spokesman comfirming that. I also remembered we joking that the future troops dun need to do bayonet fighting.....Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:You can fix a bayonet on the SAR-21, but most bullpups a lot less effective at bayonet fighting because they are shorter...
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3 SIB
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Nonsense... it dosen't have to be air-con in singaporean terms, like balsting it to 17 degrees or such, but just a limited cooling system to keep the interior at a nice 25 degrees.Originally posted by Silenthunter:air-con doesn't help in battle effectiveness. It's proven that it make you sleepy and lazy. And you are more likely to getting heatstroke while marching and running than getting it while sitting in an APC. Seriously guys, have you been to the army??
APCs, be it M113 or Bionix is not as iron hot as you think cos hatches and vents are all open, ventilation is tip top and put air-con will be ineffective... it's like putting aircon on a landrover. If you are talk about "luxury", I think they should put more space in the APC than putting air-con.
power of the APC is so important that it cannot afford to be wasted on "luxury" that you won't even feel it. don't forgot, our APCs have tonnes of Electronic-devices to power, not just a dashboard and the hifi.
Okay, no point explaining so much, you just have to ride on a APC/A-vehicle (not just free rides like those in open houses but actual ops)to know wat I mean. I guess warspite, being in the armor family, will know what I mean.
APCs dun get too hot when you drive them around in shade or on cloudy days, But on a hot red flag day (33-37 degrees), temperatures inside an M113 idling in the sun have been measured to reach 40-45 degrees. Extremely delibating for troops. Fine in exercise, when we can cancel it, but when it comes to war, and have to fight on red flag day... sure all die one... -
Well, I think Silenthunter read my mind!
I agree totally that the no. 1 luxury on every trooper's mind is space. The heat, most of us AIs can put up with, hell we can even take a nap right in the middle of noon (when in between exercises), but space is a different kind of discomfort that is hard to endure.
I wonder why they never tried having racks fixed up on the sides of the vehicle. These can hold fullpacks, stores, etc. You could even put sandbags in it for added protection, just like what the Israeli army are doing. -
Speaking as an AI, I don't understand what's the problem.
I never had any problems with the BX being too hot. Air circulates in and out when the vehicle is moving so you never really get hot. And when the vehicle is not moving, you wouldn't be in the vehicle anyway. The hatches are all open wide, how to get to "40-45 degrees"??
SingaporeTyrannosaur wrote
Nonsense... it dosen't have to be air-con in singaporean terms, like balsting it to 17 degrees or such, but just a limited cooling system to keep the interior at a nice 25 degrees.
APCs dun get too hot when you drive them around in shade or on cloudy days, But on a hot red flag day (33-37 degrees), temperatures inside an M113 idling in the sun have been measured to reach 40-45 degrees. Extremely delibating for troops. Fine in exercise, when we can cancel it, but when it comes to war, and have to fight on red flag day... sure all die one...
Air-con is pointless because we fight open hatch, unlike most other countries. Any cool air also flow out already. Any armour guy will tell you this.
never had the chance to be cramped, half-suffocated and unable to move for hours. on last day of exercise would kill for it though....
SingaporeTyrannosaur wrote
Actually comfort does play a large part in battle effectiveness... if the troops are cramped, half-suffocated and unable to move for hours during transport, by the time they dismount, their fighting ability is already compromised. That's why the idea is to provide adequate, but not excessive comfort. Why do you think SAF is upgrading to more comfortable air-con trucks? Because they know that it will raise combat readiness by a lot.
I believe the BX is small because it has to fit in our terrain. Any bigger and close terrain mobility will be a problem. Yes, the trooper compartment is small but no smaller than the Ultra's. Compare the 25 to the 25 and the 40/50 to the 40/50 otherwise confirm one is bigger than the other. And it is much easier to get the section in and out. If you have expericence with both the BX and the Ultra you will know. RE: the medic position
I only wish that everyone had an individual fan. The BX is alot more egoromic then the M113 and quite well thought out compared to the Ultras.
Didn't know they got water cooler. Never heard of a combat vehicle got water cooler cos it must take lotsa power to cool water. Water heater yes but not water cooler.
fago wrote:
if you call installing aircon an luxury, then wat do you say abt the aussie m113? got aircon, got water cooler some more! water cooler lei!
I don't think the points raised are a problem. space is a problem but if you think creatively, there's lots of space in a BX. -
bcoy.... I take it you used to be or still in the Bravo company of some battalion. I am a Guardsman. I travel in a chopper. That means my brotherhood & I assault behind enemy lines with provided intel on enemy troop movements. That info may be hours or even days old. We don't know what will have happened by then. Could a new enemy division have moved into the area. With a battalion against a division. Wouldn't you want better survivability, knowing that there are a ratio of 10 guns to your one gun out there???Originally posted by bcoy:Good Points.
Actually troops that are heli-inserted are usually done so far away from the objective. I wonder how is it like to be wearing a bullet proof vest and sitting in a the helicoptor - already its so tight in space with all the equipment we carry and I remember having difficulty finding the seltbelts in the dark.
Agreed - with APCs and local counter-attacks units, bullet proof vests are a more likely choice for these selected units. Although, it will be very warm sitting in the vehicle during the day.
Still, bullet proof vests are not standard for most armies around the world yet. -
The "discomfort" of body armour is completely outweight by the survibality is gives the user... you are 70 percent less likely to die...
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Dino... I understand your predicament as an AI in BIONIX, but look at this scenario. First off, the wise enemy will take an effort to study you. And IF SAF decides to install aircon in the Bionix, the enemy knows. Where does the aircon draw the air from???Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Yah lor, you can get heatstroke by sitting in an APC for too long on a hot day... air-con is simply environmental control, it certainly should be implemented...
Outside, right?? What would happen if the enemy ambushes the convoy of APCs you guys are in. 
Throws CS or tear gas grenades at the aircon ventilation port (Remember your CS gas experience?)... What would happen?? You guys run out. VOILA!!! You guys just ran into a group of guys just waiting for you to run out!! AMBUSH!! 
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Most AFVs have "aircon" for NBC protection. meaning the crew in an AFV will be able to operate even though the environment outside is contaminated.Originally posted by SG_Archangel:Dino... I understand your predicament as an AI in BIONIX, but look at this scenario. First off, the wise enemy will take an effort to study you. And IF SAF decides to install aircon in the Bionix, the enemy knows. Where does the aircon draw the air from??? Outside, right?? What would happen if the enemy ambushes the convoy of APCs you guys are in. Throws CS or tear gas grenades at the aircon ventilation port (Remember your CS gas experience?)... What would happen?? You guys run out. VOILA!!! You guys just ran into a group of guys just waiting for you to run out!! AMBUSH!!
The hatches will probably need to be closed. The air-inlet will probably have a filter although I think the crew will mostly to breathing in recycled air. The interior of the vehicle will also have a slight over-pressure so that the outside air will not be able to get in through any small gaps.
So the crew will be safe from the CS!!
And if I am the enemy and I can creep up within range to throw a CS cannister, I won't use CS, I will use my LAW or RPG!! -
What a bo liao and nonsenscical statement, you open hatch they throw in CS lagi worse... Also wait till you kenna artty bombardment and are forced to button up... all cook in thereOriginally posted by SG_Archangel:Dino... I understand your predicament as an AI in BIONIX, but look at this scenario. First off, the wise enemy will take an effort to study you. And IF SAF decides to install aircon in the Bionix, the enemy knows. Where does the aircon draw the air from??? Outside, right?? What would happen if the enemy ambushes the convoy of APCs you guys are in. Throws CS or tear gas grenades at the aircon ventilation port (Remember your CS gas experience?)... What would happen?? You guys run out. VOILA!!! You guys just ran into a group of guys just waiting for you to run out!! AMBUSH!! -
I do have have any statistics, but if body armour really enhances surviability by so much, they should really issue it. I think for Singapore every man counts as we are definitely up against a numerically superior enemy.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:The "discomfort" of body armour is completely outweight by the survibality is gives the user... you are 70 percent less likely to die...
Anyway, even if we are victors, we still need men to buidup the country again.
I think peacetime everyone will ditch their body armour if possible. Come wartime, everyone will be q-ing outside the QM or amoury. -
Isreali army operate in totally different terrain from ours. If u fix those racks at the side for ur fullpacks and jerry cans and stores..after exercise, u probably find many torn and missing fullpacks, punctured jerry cans and stores.Originally posted by warspite:I wonder why they never tried having racks fixed up on the sides of the vehicle. These can hold fullpacks, stores, etc. You could even put sandbags in it for added protection, just like what the Israeli army are doing.
u claimed u from armour?? Think of the bigger picture plz.
We dun need those sandbags for protection either. -
The concept of open-hatch stems from the early use of the M113s in Vietnam, where I've seen pics of troops riding on top. Why? simple...landmines...any explosion, you could at least stand a chance of flying up in the air like a champagne cork, but still survive, albeit injuries. THe open-hatch position is a compromise between landmines and sniper fire. We need to fight in open-hatch position in our terrain, so as to maintain overwatch and vigilance when in movement or laager. The use of air-con is not practical at all. A.I.s won't really complain about the lack of air-conditioning; its the lack of space they might complain about...again creative thinking goes into this as 21 Alpha mentions. Australian and Canadian forces previously employed the M113 like us too; thye could fit in their section of guys together with their rucks...and both the troops and rucks are huge...
I think the thing that SAF should invest in are videocams that could be mounted on the turret. I've seen it mounted on Canadian LAV-IIIs...very useful...the screen is like an LCD monitor, and it gives the A.I.s in the APC the chance to assess the tactical situation before they dismount...These sets dun cost that much, and I think its good value for defence $$$.