Side-arm for the Infantry man
-
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
I agree, it's too much drama over such a mundane issue. I almost loled when I saw storywolf trying to imply that carrying an extra pistol will cause extra training deaths in the SAF... seriously, come on... let me get this straight... storywolf is an officer during NS? What is happening to our screening process?
Anyway unless storywolf wants to argue the SAF is making a big mistake or the pictures are photoshopped, this "argument" is pretty much over, the fact it started at all shows the inability of some not to make a mountain out of a molehill.
You just clearly twisted my words.
The recent extra training death - is a clear indication of the over all health and condition of our general soldiers. Extra weights does have impact which cannot be ignored.
Your photos - is that Timor Leste ? if it is not then shut up - go find some Timor Leste photo !!! get a GPS, Afghanistan is not in Timor Leste. great idea, photoshop in Timor Leste - change them to green uniforms incase you forgot !!! -
Nobody said extra weight will have ZERO impact what.....
-
Originally posted by Kenashi:
given a choice, i wont want a sidearm
chances are u will drop it than use it.
then ganna charge
LOL
No lar, rubbish.
The sidearm will be holstered and triple locked, tied and taped cos nobody will dare to take out n use in case they accidentally lose it. Then kena charge.
-
Originally posted by storywolf:
You just clearly twisted my words.
The recent extra training death - is a clear indication of the over all health and condition of our general soldiers. Extra weights does have impact which cannot be ignored.
Your photos - is that Timor Leste ? if it is not then shut up - go find some Timor Leste photo !!! get a GPS, Afghanistan is not in Timor Leste. great idea, photoshop in Timor Leste - change them to green uniforms incase you forgot !!!
Lol what twist?The basic facts of your argument are already wrong. You tried to argue that it's not in the SAF's best interest or mentality to use sidearms and that they are only for special ops troops.
These pictures of quite ordinary, non special operations personnel having sidearms in SAF service indicates quite clearly when it comes to the real thing, what the SAF clearly intends to implement.
Your whole thing of trying to restrict the argument to Timor Leste is irrelevant, the basic points of your argument have already been clearly proven wrong. You are just grasping at straws.
And please, now you are going to be a MO and claim that the addition of a sidearm has serious health risks? Nobody is saying extra weight has no effect, they are just saying it's not going to have anywhere near as much of an effect as you claim.
Going by your logic I could come up with a similar argument that the SAF infantryman should not carry more ammo for his SAR-21, because adding a few loaded mags over the 2.5 contact rate will mean that suddenly a lot more recruits will have heart attack/heatstroke and die.
Please do try to come up with better points instead of trying to argue that a circle is a square.
And seriously, an officer should have the guts to admit that he is wrong or mistaken, instead of trying to shove down a point that is clearly failing and earning no respect among his peers or men in the process. We've seen plenty of these kind of "officers" in service, and they do not impress us.
-
Originally posted by Shotgun:
No lar, rubbish.
The sidearm will be holstered and triple locked, tied and taped cos nobody will dare to take out n use in case they accidentally lose it. Then kena charge.
Spoken like a true Singaporean in Singapore.
On active deployment, you will find it a blessing in disguise. Which do you prefer to bring to the toilet/shower? The rifle or the pistol?
-
Originally posted by Shotgun:
No lar, rubbish.
The sidearm will be holstered and triple locked, tied and taped cos nobody will dare to take out n use in case they accidentally lose it. Then kena charge.
The fuss seems to have been a "cup caught in a storm" - when sidearms are only issued to command officers - who are Company Commanders and above (or ranks from Captain and above), and when not even platoon commanders (2Lt and Lta) are entitled - as seen in the photos on Page 2.Budget cannot be an issue for the SAF when essential weapons are concerned.
If ever the defense of a Command Post should suddenly be compromised, the sidearm will be the nearest weapon available to the Senior Officers to defend themselves in the Command Post.
As for the SAF personnel who are seemingly fit and collapsing without warning and then lapsing into a coma to subsequently die - can there be any one single factor causing these deaths.
There was a Recce Officer who was amongst the fittest from his batch of officers, but collapsed after a 1 kilometer jog which he thought would get him out of the lethargy - after being down with flu for the previous week.
An autopsy revealed that his heart was weakened by viral attack that went unnoticed during the flu treatment.
There was the situation of a 18 year old NSF sent back to Tekong for Basic Training again - before being released from full time service. He was pushed to perform 80 push-ups at the pace dictated by the Sergeant. The 80 push-up was completed, the 18 year old stood up, turned wobbly and collapsed. Fortunately, there was a Medic present and was an asmathic sufferer, and thought that the 18 year old had an asthma attack, and took out his breathing device to help the 18 year old to open the air passages to allow breathing during the vital seconds.
The near death 'accident' was due to hyper-ventilating from the 80 push-up being administered at an irregular quick pace without stoppage - with the 80 push-up not even allowed in the SAF disciplinary guidelines.
As much as deaths can be due to human caused factors, it can also be a result of age, physical conditions, and perhaps even genetic causes - which are not detected at the early medical check-up stage prior to actual NSF recruitment, and with the check-up being done as a perfunctory procedure unless dealing with a White Horse.
It seems that such sudden deaths were unheard of during the early NS periods of 1967 through 1980s, but somehow seems to be frequent occurences during the late 1990s till the present year.
Is there a generation change in phsyical fitness - with the side-arm nothing more then a "side issue" ?
-
It seems that such sudden deaths were unheard of during the early NS periods of 1967 through 1980s, but somehow seems to be frequent occurences during the late 1990s till the present year.
Is there a generation change in phsyical fitness - with the side-arm nothing more then a "side issue" ?
I do not think there is really a significant difference in the number of "sudden" deaths, they probably just didn't talk too much about it last time. But in terms of fitness, the older generation is probably fitter, due to a less sedentary lifestyle... that much contribute somewhat.
-
The additional weight of a pistol would kill me. I prefer the use of the ET tool - Spetsnaz style...
