Apache down
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The saddam troops use human shield, fake pow and army in CV clothing...i think just wipe out the whole damn town..excluding women and child...... that should be more effective!!! That apache was gunned down by a farmer in disguied.
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lol i dun think it was 'a' farmer.. . . was probably hell lot of people just shooting bullets anywhere into the air
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That is the report in the paper....
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I am surprised the US didn't send in a airstrike to destroy the copter. A F117 or F18 with a LGB should do the trick.
Once it is certain that the crew is not onboard the copter why didn't the US just blow it up. If I am Saddam and I want the copter intact, I will keep one crewman strapped on the Apache while I towed it to a hidden/hardened location. Human Shield!
That is one big coup for the Iraqs to capture a Apache Intact. Better yet if they got the pilots.
I think those farmers gonna be rich. 1 x Copter, 2 x pilots. I recalled Saddam have a reward for all these.
I still don't believe that the Apache is shot down. Must be some major system failure on board and the crew made a emergency landing. There is no visible damage at all, but of course maybe the tail was damaged (not visible from pics), but I don't think a copter can make a perfect three point landing with a damaged tail. Just look at the movie black hawk down.
Noticed the Hellfires have white painted warheads. "War Shots" Live rounds siah.... -
As far as i know, the US forces have tried to destroy the Apache completely, but due to the sandstorm in the desert, it cannot be done...they just have to wait till the weather is fine enough to do it, provided the apache is still there...
also, from what i see and heard, the apache looks mighty fine to me, no bullet shots...maybe i believe it suffered a mechanical failure and the claims of ppl shot down the apache is probably pure bs for propoganda purposes -
I think the helicopter went down with some kinda engine failure.
It's an Apache for crying out loud! It's armoured against the AK-47s those farmers were waving (uhh.. do farmers actually need assault rifles? the wildlife in Iraq must be terrible!).
Anyway, Iraq has flouted Geneva conventions.
They are parading the POWs. Something not allowed under the conventions.
well the cnn have been showing footage of iraqi prisoners too. so itsn't double standards to say ther were against the convention? -
well the cnn have been showing footage of iraqi prisoners too. so itsn't double standards to say ther were against the convention?Originally posted by the Bear:I think the helicopter went down with some kinda engine failure.
It's an Apache for crying out loud! It's armoured against the AK-47s those farmers were waving (uhh.. do farmers actually need assault rifles? the wildlife in Iraq must be terrible!).
Anyway, Iraq has flouted Geneva conventions.
They are parading the POWs. Something not allowed under the conventions.
well the cnn have been showing footage of iraqi prisoners too. so itsn't double standards to say ther were against the convention? -
To make a more convincing propoganda, they should roll in a 23mm AA gun, one 14.5mm HMG and a couple of AKs and fire a few bursts each at the Apache!! With it riddled with bullet holes it will look more convincing.Originally posted by superspitfire:As far as i know, the US forces have tried to destroy the Apache completely, but due to the sandstorm in the desert, it cannot be done...they just have to wait till the weather is fine enough to do it, provided the apache is still there...
also, from what i see and heard, the apache looks mighty fine to me, no bullet shots...maybe i believe it suffered a mechanical failure and the claims of ppl shot down the apache is probably pure bs for propoganda purposes
As for the geneva convention, the US also shows prisioners also, although the US try to show how humane they are. I saw a picture of two UK soldiers standing over a trench where two Iraqi sholdiers were sheltering. Both died and one of them still holding onto a white flag.
I think we should not use double standard. It is WAR and sometimes this kind of things happen. -
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I think there is a difference between showing them trudging off to detention centres or getting caught and showing them and humiliating them in the media.
POWs must be protected from something like... "public insult and curiosity" or something like that.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:well the cnn have been showing footage of iraqi prisoners too. so itsn't double standards to say ther were against the convention? -
Notice that only the starboard inner pylons have Hellfires, and the port one is empty.
Maybe they still have problems firing hellfires from the port pylons because of debris from exhaust damaging the tail rotor. -
why is the helicopter still so good in condition ?? yet it was shot downed ??
can anyone tell me ?? -
Latest from CNN. The apache was destroyed by a LGB fired by a coalition aircraft...... Damn what a waste, SG wun mind one more free apache......Originally posted by ETboy:why is the helicopter still so good in condition ?? yet it was shot downed ??
can anyone tell me ?? -
lol yea.....
Anyway.... doubt is shot down because no bulet or flak holes on the body of the chopper... plus.. RPG attack.. they can target the tail rotor.... but in the picture on page 1... the tail rotor looks fine... -
i tot a famer shot it down with his AK ??
OMG AK shot down a apache ?? -
7.62mm rounds cannot penetrate the skin of the Longbow... Its designed to take hits from 23mm (for the rotor)....
really wondering what brought it down -
think you watch too much black hawk down my friend .......Originally posted by Moonstriker:lol yea.....
Anyway.... doubt is shot down because no bulet or flak holes on the body of the chopper... plus.. RPG attack.. they can target the tail rotor.... but in the picture on page 1... the tail rotor looks fine...
anyone in their right mind woud go for the main body rather than the tail rotor which its highly impossible as it is still intact.
by the way, RPGs are not meant for air targets -
people usually go for the main body or those really really erm...trained person will go for the engine or rotors......Originally posted by Flight Cadet Officer:think you watch too much black hawk down my friend .......
anyone in their right mind woud go for the main body rather than the tail rotor which its highly impossible as it is still intact.
by the way, RPGs are not meant for air targets
and the RPG in BHD if i'm not mistaken in total all the chopters came under fire frm 2000 of them -
not sure about the 2000 figure but to fire an RPG at a "Small moving surface area" is quite impossible for a 1 shot 1 hit.Originally posted by |-|05|:people usually go for the main body or those really really erm...trained person will go for the engine or rotors......
and the RPG in BHD if i'm not mistaken in total all the chopters came under fire frm 2000 of them
If the RPG is meant for APCs, vehicles, and troops. if the RPG is at a critical angle and fired, the back blast will finish your legs -
Top U.S. General: Iraq Executed POWs
Wednesday, March 26, 2003
WASHINGTON — Iraq has executed prisoners of war, the Pentagon's No. 2 general said Wednesday night as he listed a series of what he called unprecedented Iraqi violations of the laws of war.
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, apparently was referring to some of the U.S. Army troops captured Sunday by Iraqi forces in the city of An Nasiriyah. Iraqi state television later showed video footage of five living POWs and the bodies of at least five U.S. soldiers.
Defense officials who have viewed the tape have said privately that several of the bodies had execution-style gunshot wounds to their heads.
Intelligence officials have received one uncorroborated report indicating that at least some of the dead soldiers had been captured alive and executed in public, a senior Pentagon official said Wednesday on condition of anonymity. The information -- which did not come from an intercepted communication, as the New York Times reported Wednesday -- is of undetermined reliablility, the official said.
Pace, in a televised interview, said Iraqis had engaged in many atrocities in the six days since the war began.
"They have executed prisoners of war. ... They have used women and children as human shields and they have pretended to surrender and then opened fire," Pace said. "I've never seen anything like this. It's disgusting."
Pentagon officials said Wednesday the International Committee of the Red Cross still had not been granted access to the five Army soldiers captured Sunday and the two Army helicopter pilots captured a day later. All seven were questioned in front of Iraqi video cameras and the tapes were later played on Iraqi television -- which U.S. officials say violated Geneva Convention prohibitions on subjecting POWs to public humiliation.
The first group of Army soldiers captured were part of a maintenance convoy which made a wrong turn in the south-central Iraqi town of An Nasiriyah on Sunday and was attacked by Iraqi forces. Of that unit, the Army says, two soldiers are confirmed dead, five are confirmed as prisoners of war and eight are missing.
Pentagon officials say the prisoners thought to have been executed are among the eight formally listed as missing. Final determinations that they are dead and how they were killed can only happen once the bodies are located, officials said. -
o.0 Rifles are not meant for airtargets too then y do the iraqis use ak47 rifles to shoot air?Originally posted by Flight Cadet Officer:think you watch too much black hawk down my friend .......
anyone in their right mind woud go for the main body rather than the tail rotor which its highly impossible as it is still intact.
by the way, RPGs are not meant for air targets -
The Longbow is effectively armored over most of its body but not all of it, throw enuff rounds at it and you'll hit something unprotected or critical. Given how much aa they attracted, the fact that only one AH-64D went down is a testemant to the survability of the chopper. Send Hueys in there and I think a lot of them confirm die one.
As for the Iraqi account of farmers shooting it down I doubt it highly, unless they tyco hit (like that bo pian lah, cannot be helped). More likely, I think the Longbow was already heavily damaged from the hornet's nest incident from REAL aa fire and forced to land, the farmers shooting at it assumed that they were the onces who brought it down. Simple and solved.
It's like tom hanks shooting at the tiger in Saving Private Ryan with his colt .45, when the tank exploded, was it him or the mustang that knocked it out? -
Note: I've edited the original post to save space and bandwidthOriginally posted by the Bear:Top U.S. General: Iraq Executed POWs
Wednesday, March 26, 2003
Kind of strange to execute some and leave 5 others alive to be PoWs and be released after the end of the war to blab about how their fellow PoWs were gunned down in cold blood (which they certainly will once released if its true)
Maybe I'm too cynical, but it just doesn't add up to me. A desperate way to win the propaganda war perhaps?
Somehow, I've stopped swallowing the 'official line' of any side hook, line and sinker already. -
Iraqi has nothing to lose, after all if it loses the war, they would be proscuted for war crimes anyway.... if they win, US can't do anything... why u think they dun mind using human shields and such?
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ahh thats when your wrong. When your in a Section of 7 men, there is a way of gunning down planes provided you all are marksman.Originally posted by Moonstriker:o.0 Rifles are not meant for airtargets too then y do the iraqis use ak47 rifles to shoot air?
when 7 men line up and point their rifles 45 degrees and sweep it to 90degrees in an arch, there is a chance the plane will get hit provided they are within the 460m - 1500m range.