DSTO : Decision on Fighter jets for RASF soon
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summary:
06 x contenders:
a) Lockheed Martin's F-16C/D Block 60;
b) Boeing's F-18E/F;
c) Boeing's F-15E;
d) Sukhoi's SU-30MK;
e) Eurofighter's Typhoon;
f) Dassualt's Rafale;
between two to four would be shortlisted.
final choice probably by early 2004;
order would be in the range of 20 aircrafts i
n a deal worth over US $ 1 billion -
I believe as military amatures , we all know this news long b4 the strait times will to report it already.......
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ya lah quite true too.
but we du know the date right? allwe do is guess.
now at the very least the time frame is out.
decision on naval copters to be out this year too. -
i kinda like a Sukhoi 37 woooo
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spelling error:
it's DSTA not DSTO. -
It was reported that sg will reduce the no. to 4 in May2003. And sure there will be at least 1 from US to make them happy.Originally posted by foga:ya lah quite true too.
but we du know the date right? allwe do is guess.
now at the very least the time frame is out.
decision on naval copters to be out this year too. -
n the F-15 desginate shld b T not E
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I think the 2 that are likely to be out
F18, My has it and F16B60 can do the job
SU30, no way Sg will buy CIA plane.
What do u think? -
Prefer the F-16 and the Su-30....
heh... Su-37's cool... 360 degree vectoring afterburners... -
haiz, i can forsee more F-16s coming in.
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If mindef will to aqquire the F-16C/D Bk 60 , i have nth to say but , pure stupid.Originally posted by kopiosatu:haiz, i can forsee more F-16s coming in.
No one with military knowlegde will ever support the fact that an Airforce shd be arm with majority a single type of aircraft. And by aqquiring the F-16 , i dun think they have learnt the Amraam lesson and by aqquiring the F-16 , dun ever try to match the SUs the Malaysian buying which currently will leads the region in air superiority in the future.... -
MINDEF ngiao mah.Originally posted by foxtrout8:If mindef will to aqquire the F-16C/D Bk 60 , i have nth to say but , pure stupid.
No one with military knowlegde will ever support the fact that an Airforce shd be arm with majority a single type of aircraft. And by aqquiring the F-16 , i dun think they have learnt the Amraam lesson and by aqquiring the F-16 , dun ever try to match the SUs the Malaysian buying which currently will leads the region in air superiority in the future....
must buy plane where parts are serviceable among the other planes -
my guess
Typhoon
Rafale
F-15T
in terms of 100% tech transfer -
but if mindef ngiao?Originally posted by duotiga83:my guess
Typhoon
Rafale
F-15T
in terms of 100% tech transfer -
Errm...what makes you so sure that the Block 60s share a high percentage of parts commonality with the 52s?Originally posted by kopiosatu:MINDEF ngiao mah.
must buy plane where parts are serviceable among the other planes
From what I know, the 52+ is already vastly different from the 52, with the plumbing for the CFTs(which are not there, nor easily added to the 52) alone making the entire top of the fuselage of the 52+ very very different from the original 52
Add new avionics etc and its a very differnent beast by itself, not to mention the differences between the 60 and 52 -
-16blk 52 is not blk 52+ or blk 60, if u c the specs carefulli...engines also....
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so which plane do u guys think mindef will get considering that they always put budget first?
logistics wise (e.g. parts replacement, training etc.)
fuel consumption
ability
feel free to add more -
I thought we've went thru this like a hundred times before... I don't think we have to repeat our individual "arguments" for each type of plane right?
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Only a hundred times??? lol, I tot we went through a few thousand times. . .Originally posted by EXCO:I thought we've went thru this like a hundred times before... I don't think we have to repeat our individual "arguments" for each type of plane right?
Anyway, to piss of the Americans, we can first shortlist 3 planes and kick all 3 US planes out of the competition first. . . after all, they're offering nothing new. . . correct me if I'm wrong. . but i tot these planes were supposed to be for FIGHTER. . . u want the plane that can knock other stuff out of the sky. . . amount of stuff it can haul is also important, but first and foremost should be the ability to knock the enemy out of the sky. . .
Lets change the level of discussion this time. . . anyone knows how much the planes cost per unit? And dun forget. . . we need tons of other equipment .. . compatibility issues, esp. the Su-30MK.. .
anyway, I think the Rafale rox. . .
but only Su-30MK has TVE. . ., dammit. . .
stats of Typhoon look nice. . . but i dun like the look of the typhoon. . . sorry. . i judge a book by its cover. . .
Rafale also requires less than 1300 ft (less than 400m) of runway for takeoff and landing
Typhoon needs 700m
Su-30MKI (India's version) needs 550m for takeoff and 670 for landing. . .
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/su-30mk.htm
read the last paragraph:
"In May 2002 it was reported that studies in a Boeing simulator complex show that the Su-30MK can defeat an F-15C “every time” by using a combination beyond visual range (BVR) attack with an AA-12, followed by a close approach and attack with an IR-guided AA-11. The Su-30 penetrates the F-15’s Doppler radar net because it can rapidly dump speed to zero relative to the F-15, then attack from below and accelerate away. Similar tactics, say the analysts, would not work against an F-22 or F-35. The maneuver also requires great pilot skill, of a level very rare outside leading Western powers. It is also possible that the test is set up to justify purchase of the F-22 and F-35 along with various new air-to-air missiles. Critics point out that the maneuver will also not work against the F-16 and F-18, since with their smaller radar signatures they are not so vulnerable to the BVR portion of the attack. "
note my figures my not be accurate, all come from either fas.org or globalsecurity.org
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No matter what people say abt this, I believe Singapore will buy American even though they have been evaluating european models for a while. Why? because we already accepted the bribe last year when US announced that singapore one of the countries allowed to build parts for JSF fighter.Originally posted by AzRaeL:i kinda like a Sukhoi 37 woooo -
When arms transfer occur , sometimes it bound to contain political reasons. However as wat i have said b4, we need not buy another US equipment.Originally posted by paulho:No matter what people say abt this, I believe Singapore will buy American even though they have been evaluating european models for a while. Why? because we already accepted the bribe last year when US announced that singapore one of the countries allowed to build parts for JSF fighter.
Singapore will not and need not be force into buying something which is not optimize to our situation. Remember that our govt is pro-singaporean not pro-yadayada land , thus y always look at the side whereby singapore will sure purchase an american fighter..?
Singapore need not purchase an american fighter because if we are realli in a dilemma , we can exchange deals in purchasing other things such as their naval helicopter , MLRS yadyada.
However I cannot rule out that there is a possibility that the next fighter will be from a US source as there are many other factors to weight than the plane's specs , but yet i will rule out that the purchase will be done due to true political reasons. -
foga, think of it this way. They were muddling initially with the idea on a rafale even sent a few planes to france and leased a base for Advance Pilot training, then news hit that our nothern neighbours bought adders bvr missles, the europeans offered us BVR's with the eurofighter then suddenly the eurofighter crashed in spain last year and then more recently news was we bought abt 600 pythons, what was that for?Originally posted by foxtrout8:When arms transfer occur , sometimes it bound to contain political reasons. However as wat i have said b4, we need not buy another US equipment.
Singapore will not and need not be force into buying something which is not optimize to our situation. Remember that our govt is pro-singaporean not pro-yadayada land , thus y always look at the side whereby singapore will sure purchase an american fighter..?
Singapore need not purchase an american fighter because if we are realli in a dilemma , we can exchange deals in purchasing other things such as their naval helicopter , MLRS yadyada.
However I cannot rule out that there is a possibility that the next fighter will be from a US source as there are many other factors to weight than the plane's specs , but yet i will rule out that the purchase will be done due to true political reasons.
We can deduce from here that DSTA was initially interested in a french model but found it mebbe medium range mica missles not up to par then turned to look at the eurofighter especially when there was a sweet yummy deal of tech transfer and amramms forthcoming.
Then suddenly the plane crashed during trials in spain in september last year suddenly dey felt 20*70million USD cannot justify a high price to pay for technology which does not even work just to get a few missles, so dey bought 600 israeli missles as stop gap measure.
My guess is they will go for a F15 model and arm it with israeli missle. -
hte same effect from the F-15K? not again.....
i would rather go for eu planes than the americans 1s(though their package is somewhat a sweeter in some sense)
btw r u so fond of americans planes? -
I will find these argument a reasonable one incomparisome to the one u argued abt the bribes yadyada in ur previous post.Originally posted by paulho:foga, think of it this way. They were muddling initially with the idea on a rafale even sent a few planes to france and leased a base for Advance Pilot training, then news hit that our nothern neighbours bought adders bvr missles, the europeans offered us BVR's with the eurofighter then suddenly the eurofighter crashed in spain last year and then more recently news was we bought abt 600 pythons, what was that for?
We can deduce from here that DSTA was initially interested in a french model but found it mebbe medium range mica missles not up to par then turned to look at the eurofighter especially when there was a sweet yummy deal of tech transfer and amramms forthcoming.
Then suddenly the plane crashed during trials in spain in september last year suddenly dey felt 20*70million USD cannot justify a high price to pay for technology which does not even work just to get a few missles, so dey bought 600 israeli missles as stop gap measure.
My guess is they will go for a F15 model and arm it with israeli missle.
Btw for the typhoon aircraft , do u think Singapore's decision is will affected by the crash in Spain ?? How many times did the Mudhen crashed?? If Mica is not at par with the R-77 are the Amraam and the Derby at par???
For u info , i respect ur opinion.
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i think we will get the F-15
My favourite plane
F-15 rocks