DSTO : Decision on Fighter jets for RASF soon
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F-15 though is a great plane i cld say...but if if u wan to follow the generations of a/c is consider pretty 'old' era.......+ 1 minus point is only left for production is for usaf n south korea......thus if we get the -15T ver , we cld b the last customer to get the strike eagle n the production may stop if we do not buy more...
my 2 cents
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it is a bribe my fren. We twisted their arm for the Apache deal few years ago now they are bribing us, of course not so direct. And even if we get to build JSF parts, the money we earn from it goes back to the american businesses with MRO like facilities in singapore like UTC, P&W, Sirkosky, TRW, GE Aircraft Engines isn't it? So they pay us we pay them back, politics !!!Originally posted by foxtrout8:I will find these argument a reasonable one incomparisome to the one u argued abt the bribes yadyada in ur previous post.
Btw for the typhoon aircraft , do u think Singapore's decision is will affected by the crash in Spain ?? How many times did the Mudhen crashed?? If Mica is not at par with the R-77 are the Amraam and the Derby at par???
For u info , i respect ur opinion.
Singapore may not get any european tech transfer, may not even get bvr missle (python 4 nt bvr) but we will get tech transfer in other areas for the JSF. So the payoff in the long run.
Derby according to rafael seems to be well tested but amraam of course battle tested which more important. But adders according to previous soviet defected pilots won't do much damage to planes because missle warhead is small unless 2-3 fired together no use. Bt pythons-4 has v.unprecedented maneuverability and an ultra-sensitive seeker, v.good in close dog fights.
Eurofighter? Singapore not known to pay good money for junk. -
We get any of the American planes, F-15.-16. or -18, we'll still end up one of the last few operating the aircraft. . . ESPECIALLY F-15. . ., where are the spares gonna come from besides ripping damn out of old US ones which are due to be phased out? Ok, so the F-16 and F/A-18 may not go that fast, but there are already aircraft out to replace them, why get them if US is already coming up with replacements??
And I'm reiterating my question. . . what do we want in this plane? An air superiority fighter? OR a bomb hauler which also happens to be able to shoot respectably at other things in the sky ? If the bomb hauler is what we want, then ok fine, get the F-15T, but if we want air superiority, I'd rather something more up to date, and later spend a bit more on the missiles ourselves. . . its only about 24 planes, we can't afford to have them falling out of the sky!! esp. if they are for air superiority! -
FYI th e Typhoons already now in process of deliver to the 4 nations....though the avionics may not b that so far adv, but still can have time for more upgrades n such, which is the same as rafale, americans planes that we be thinking (blk 60 viiper n F-15T), thoough veri adv i can say, we cld not able to upgrade more if we wan to...
my 2 cents again
Typhoon Latest News -
I thought the F/A-18E just entered service a few years ago?
That plane is to be in service for a long time. Until at least 2015.
In fact, the F/A-18E just started combat missions. -
Fren, we get our parts replacements and overhaul services from P&W, GEAE companies like that, I can tell you they always follow US war machine where ever it goes.Originally posted by laser51088:We get any of the American planes, F-15.-16. or -18, we'll still end up one of the last few operating the aircraft. . . ESPECIALLY F-15. . ., where are the spares gonna come from besides ripping damn out of old US ones which are due to be phased out? Ok, so the F-16 and F/A-18 may not go that fast, but there are already aircraft out to replace them, why get them if US is already coming up with replacements??
GE Aircraft Engines in Singapore alone makes a lot of money just servicing P&W engines, engines from UH1H, engines from F16, engines from Sky Hawks, engines from Apaches, engines from even commercial airlines. And singapore alone has over 100+ military aircraft, I don't think we ever need worry abt spare-parts
Also It's all a matter of economics. When there is no war, toys like these cost a huge bomb. Everytime you fly an F-16 you burn USD2500 and the parts or wiring needs to be replaced or serviced.
Think of it as the workstations/servers in your company environment or school.
If you buy from one particular vendor say Sun 100 unix boxes, if you had to upgrade each one of them to 1GB main memory each do you think you will get a better deal from Sun? Do you think you can twist their arm to get them to lower their price or get more freebie, if you had a problem you cannot solve do you think you able to squeeze their balls to get them to help you based on the fact that you have a huge sun server environment thus a big customer?
Say you bought 30 sun servers, 30 HP and 30 IBM, do you think you can twist each of their arms sufficiently, more likely they will tell you to go to hell! -
I think most fighter jets cost $712 an hour to operate.
10 jets fly 100 hours equal 1000 hours 7.12mil liao
imagine having 100 jets and running them....
71.2 million
Kinda ex huh... -
Oh , u shd be in the force to know that all the JSF stuff were bribes , maybe that is too dangerous for u to say it in a public forum arent u.Originally posted by paulho:it is a bribe my fren. We twisted their arm for the Apache deal few years ago now they are bribing us, of course not so direct. And even if we get to build JSF parts, the money we earn from it goes back to the american businesses with MRO like facilities in singapore like UTC, P&W, Sirkosky, TRW, GE Aircraft Engines isn't it? So they pay us we pay them back, politics !!!
Singapore may not get any european tech transfer, may not even get bvr missle (python 4 nt bvr) but we will get tech transfer in other areas for the JSF. So the payoff in the long run.
Derby according to rafael seems to be well tested but amraam of course battle tested which more important. But adders according to previous soviet defected pilots won't do much damage to planes because missle warhead is small unless 2-3 fired together no use. Bt pythons-4 has v.unprecedented maneuverability and an ultra-sensitive seeker, v.good in close dog fights.
Eurofighter? Singapore not known to pay good money for junk.
About the missile , u shd know that the R-77 out range the Amraam and i believe the Derby . However specs of missile offered is one thing , the technology and era of aircraft offered is another. Are u trying to tell mi , we will buy a late 80 upgraded by yet vintage aircraft to match the growing air threat in the region??? No i dun think so its wise to do that. Are we going to buy a plane whereby the Americans are replacing and the British are not adoping to fight our growing threat???
Look here , everyone will know that the Su-30 , Rafale and Typhoon do provide new technology such as high end sensor , agility and weaponary which the F-15 dun have or the Americans do not want to offer. For wat u are saying , are we going to buy a plane whereby our neighbour's SU is build to kill???
However yes , no doubt the F-15 is old , it still provide a punch but is it wise to buy something whereby its out dating in the world arena , and similar Amraam incident might occur again??? Then like that , we are not learning from our mistakes.
I disagree that the Typhoon is junk , every warplane will meet error in development , go check out how many Mudhen had crash , does it mean that the Mudhen is junk?? If the Typhoon is junk , then i shd say in regret that the RAF have choose a junk plane rather than choosing the F-15s whereby they had test it out in Kosovo and friendly exchanges between their American counterparts.
Cheers Think out of the boX. -
i thought it cost $2000 for the F-16 per hour
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my error,not seeing the last partOriginally posted by trainner:i thought it cost $2000 for the F-16 per hour -
USD 2000 per hour per F-16 cheap?
What do you consider expensive then? -
yes i agree tat the JSF scheme is a bribe..but sayin tat eurofighter is a junk is too much...Originally posted by paulho:it is a bribe my fren. We twisted their arm for the Apache deal few years ago now they are bribing us, of course not so direct. And even if we get to build JSF parts, the money we earn from it goes back to the american businesses with MRO like facilities in singapore like UTC, P&W, Sirkosky, TRW, GE Aircraft Engines isn't it? So they pay us we pay them back, politics !!!
Singapore may not get any european tech transfer, may not even get bvr missle (python 4 nt bvr) but we will get tech transfer in other areas for the JSF. So the payoff in the long run.
Derby according to rafael seems to be well tested but amraam of
course battle tested which more important. But adders according to previous soviet defected pilots won't do much damage to planes because missle warhead is small unless 2-3 fired together no use. Bt pythons-4 has v.unprecedented maneuverability and an ultra-sensitive seeker, v.good in close dog fights.
Eurofighter? Singapore not known to pay good money for junk.
i dun think paulho noes anything abt plane..he just trying to implement his own idea into others..sayin tat he is rite..n dun give a damn abt wat u guys says...good day
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USD 20,000 per hour for F-14Originally posted by trainner:USD 2000 per hour per F-16 cheap?
What do you consider expensive then? -
Will the requirments narrow down the selected aircraft to be twin engined? I thought I read about it somewhere.
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F-15- twin engineOriginally posted by bcoy:Will the requirments narrow down the selected aircraft to be twin engined? I thought I read about it somewhere.
Su-30-twin engie
EF- twin engine
Rafale- twin engine
F/A-18- twin engine
So the F-16 blk60 is out?
F-15 will win. -
sorrie trainner i gotta tell F-15 will not win...the risk is 2 big , my reason is above.
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Walau eh....Originally posted by trainner:F-15- twin engine
Su-30-twin engie
EF- twin engine
Rafale- twin engine
F/A-18- twin engine
So the F-16 blk60 is out?
F-15 will win.
It seems to be like a choice of sheer likings than one with regards of specification and reasons.......... -
what if the F-15 win?Originally posted by duotiga83:sorrie trainner i gotta tell F-15 will not win...the risk is 2 big , my reason is above.
what you think doesnt mean thats what mindef thinks -
ok...can u tell mi in near future how does the F-15 can b upgraded since it is already THAT adv in my opionon.Originally posted by trainner:what if the F-15 win?
what you think doesnt mean thats what mindef thinks
F-15 is a great plane..indeed, but is consider 'old', if it wins,is the same situation as wad the koreans did i cld say
think bout it -
The F-16 and Su-27/30 are also old.Originally posted by duotiga83:ok...can u tell mi in near future how does the F-15 can b upgraded since it is already THAT adv in my opionon.
F-15 is a great plane..indeed, but is consider 'old', if it wins,is the same situation as wad the koreans did i cld say
think bout it
maybe we will be pressured by the US to buy the F-15 just like the S. Koreans.
And we will get the great F-15 -
u haven't ans my sec part of my question...How to upgrade the F-15T in near future? ur comments?
don't just go buy the planes u like, c other ppl's views, analyse, research, thenu will know wads i am talking about
if i go the same as u , my like of plane in this compettion: F-15T, F-16 bk 60, typhoon n rafale, does it mean rsaf will buy all the planes i like? -
Upgrade to F-15ACTIVE?
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F-15T proposal by BoeingOriginally posted by trainner:Upgrade to F-15ACTIVE?
FYI upgrade to F-15ACTIVE means that the gun will b removed, do u wan that? how bout avionics wise? -
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/f15/f-15k/f15kfaq.htm
In fact, the Air Force has a defined upgrade program to modernize the F-15E and sustain it as a frontline combat aircraft through 2030 and beyond. The Republic of Korea would have access to U.S. Air Force-developed upgrades for its F-15Ks.
Stated by Boeing that the F-15E/K/T will be upgraded- But not stated what kind of upgrades.
If I could get F-15ACTIVE with TVC, I wouldnt mind throwing away the gun. -
the koerans radar is in v1 therefore can b upgraded to v3 near future which is possible, ours on the other hand is selected v3 radar as the proposal, would b diffcult to have another level of upgrade unless ST upgrade the eagles locally, to another level of AESA radar. as for f-15active, the demostrator plane, i would b surprise if ST Aero upgraded the F-15T (selected IF) to part active(wif carnards) with/or tvc engine to counter the Su-30MKM.