DSTO : Decision on Fighter jets for RASF soon
-
Because they like to boast very much.Originally posted by trainner:why cant they keep it secret?
based on what previous episodes?
Previous episodes? Lets try a few
*Telling the world they wanted large numbers of Tornadoes and Hawks, then finally settling on 28 Hawks alone
* Ditto MiG-29 and Hornets, then settling on 18 and 8
* Revealed submarine plans in the early-to-mid 80s, then only after Singapore has acquired significant ASW assets and submarine capability(in terms of crew training), they finally announce their sub purchase last year.
* Talked about local industry updating their F-5s, only to see the deal bog down in allegations of dubous biz practices, and currently the F-5s are rotting away -
your words show that you are very disliking of Malaysia despite being a moderator.Originally posted by Viper52:Because they like to boast very much.
Previous episodes? Lets try a few
*Telling the world they wanted large numbers of Tornadoes and Hawks, then finally settling on 28 Hawks alone
* Ditto MiG-29 and Hornets, then settling on 18 and 8
* Revealed submarine plans in the early-to-mid 80s, then only after Singapore has acquired significant ASW assets and submarine capability(in terms of crew training), they finally announce their sub purchase last year.
* Talked about local industry updating their F-5s, only to see the deal bog down in allegations of dubous biz practices, and currently the F-5s are rotting away
As a moderator, you are supposed to be a good example and to be neutral. -
Me? Dislike Malaysia? Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I have Malaysian friends and last I checked I had no problems with them at all. My problem is with those windbags on both sides of the Causeway who manipulate the feelings of both Singaporeans and Malaysians for cheap political points and those same windbags who shoot their mouth off and end up shooting themselves in the foot.Originally posted by trainner:your words show that you are very disliking of Malaysia despite being a moderator.
As a moderator, you are supposed to be a good example and to be neutral.
A check of the posts I made here and in the Speakers Corner would vindicate that fact.
And if you feel that the points I've raised were false in any way, please kindly explain why. Thank you -
Why are you associating the Hawks with the Tornado IDS?Originally posted by Viper52:Because they like to boast very much.
Previous episodes? Lets try a few
*Telling the world they wanted large numbers of Tornadoes and Hawks, then finally settling on 28 Hawks alone
* Ditto MiG-29 and Hornets, then settling on 18 and 8
* Revealed submarine plans in the early-to-mid 80s, then only after Singapore has acquired significant ASW assets and submarine capability(in terms of crew training), they finally announce their sub purchase last year.
* Talked about local industry updating their F-5s, only to see the deal bog down in allegations of dubous biz practices, and currently the F-5s are rotting away
The Tornado IDS was cancelled and replaced with the F/A-18/MiG-29 project.
What is wrong with 18 MiG-29s and 8 F/A-18Ds?
Actually, they were going to buy more ( 10-16 ) Hornets but the 1997 crisis hit. That project was put on hold and is now being replaced by the F/A-18E/F / Su-30 project.
The F-5 problem is a business problem between te companies. Why do you associate it with the Malaysian Government?
Before they acquired submarines last year, they have been sending RMN people to go train overseas in submarines for the past 10 years. That is called training, then only buying.
THE RSN did the same thing but the only difference is they bought the training subs. -
Originally posted by trainner:
Not that i dislike malaysian but very much the fact that we had noticed is that , the malaysian government are most of the time too quick on their words that it leads to many NATO cases. Technically , viper isnt wrong by saying that. Let drop the case and not drag another malaysian issue in.
Why are you associating the Hawks with the Tornado IDS?
The Tornado IDS was cancelled and replaced with the F/A-18/MiG-29 project.
What is wrong with 18 MiG-29s and 8 F/A-18Ds?
Actually, they were going to buy more ( 10-16 ) Hornets but the 1997 crisis hit. That project was put on hold and is now being replaced by the F/A-18E/F / Su-30 project.
The F-5 problem is a business problem between te companies. Why do you associate it with the Malaysian Government?
Before they acquired submarines last year, they have been sending RMN people to go train overseas in submarines for the past 10 years. That is called training, then only buying.
THE RSN did the same thing but the only difference is they [b]bought the training subs.[/b] -
Originally posted by trainner:
Oh no it was not. There was at least a 5 year gap between the cancellation of the Tornado order and the MiG-29/Hornet deal.
Why are you associating the Hawks with the Tornado IDS?
The Tornado IDS was cancelled and replaced with the F/A-18/MiG-29 project.
What is wrong with 18 MiG-29s and 8 F/A-18Ds?
Actually, they were going to buy more ( 10-16 ) Hornets but the 1997 crisis hit. That project was put on hold and is now being replaced by the F/A-18E/F / Su-30 project.
The F-5 problem is a business problem between te companies. Why do you associate it with the Malaysian Government?
Before they acquired submarines last year, they have been sending RMN people to go train overseas in submarines for the past 10 years. That is called training, then only buying.
THE RSN did the same thing but the only difference is they [b]bought the training subs.[/b]
As for the F-5 deal, I said it was "dubious biz practices", I never mentioned any M'sian government involvement anywhere in the post. You know something about it I don't that makes you so jumpy?
Yes I know about the sending of the personnel 10 years ago in the 90s. Problem is RMN started talking about, and evaluating subs since the 1980s. -
what is wrong if the deal is 5 years apart?Originally posted by Viper52:Oh no it was not. There was at least a 5 year gap between the cancellation of the Tornado order and the MiG-29/Hornet deal.
As for the F-5 deal, I said it was "dubious biz practices", I never mentioned any M'sian government involvement anywhere in the post. You know something about it I don't that makes you so jumpy?
Yes I know about the sending of the personnel 10 years ago in the 90s. Problem is RMN started talking about, and evaluating subs since the 1980s.
the Hawk208s were bought to replace the A-4s.its not a replacement of the tornado.
if they evaluate subs since the 80's but find them not right for them and no budget, of course they wouldnt buy the subs.
about the court case, i do know somethings about it but i cant and will not say. this is because im a singaporean malay working in a malaysian company in malaysia.
of course i wont tell you what comapny i work for.
so about the F-5 case, if it is the company's fault, why are you saying MALAYSIA is bragging? -
Sigh, foxtrout8's right, I shall not let this degenerate into another Singapore v Malaysia thing. Its just playing into a troll's(whos been here before) hands
Thaks for the reminder Foxtrout8! -
politics...politics...somethings we normal civilains cannot play wif the govt tactics......so greyyyy...so greyyyy.....
-
Jus b4 pple start flaming mi , im contridicting too , i setted the thread abt harimau.org yesterday......lol. But i agree with u to an extend.Not that malaysian are bragging but they are freaking quick with their words ........Originally posted by Viper52:Sigh, foxtrout8's right, I shall not let this degenerate into another Singapore v Malaysia thing. Its just playing into a troll's(whos been here before) hands
Thaks for the reminder Foxtrout8!
Malaysian former defence minister said that they are going to build up a fleet of 27 steath Meko corvette. Now , im wondering how r they going to meet his demand for 27, maybe in 20 yrs time???? Or maybe another incident of quick words b4 thoughts.
Lets rest.................... -
The eurofighter may sport all the top of the line avionics - cool but it doesn't fly. if it is so wonderful how come the british no confidence to use it in this war theatre in iraq hmm?
The reason why the Brits are not using the typhoon in the gulf right now is simply because they have yet to enter service!!!!
Your opnions on the eurofighter may hold water bt my reservation is that I wouldn't want to depend on an aircraft that "maybe" works if ever there was a conflict in this region.
The first plane should be delivered by now (or within the next couple of months), but nevertheless, the IOC (Initial Operational Capability) should be only around 2005/6.
As for ATG capability, can someone tell me why the rafale is much more superior than the Typhoon? AFAIK, those in service now with the French forces are more towards ATA, with secondary roles in ATG. Yes, they will get more ATG capability gradually, but isn't this the same with the Typhoon. If we buy the Typhoon, we will most likely get ours in 2007/8, which will likely be Tranche 2, Tranche 3 if we wait a wee bit longer or if we take up the options as well. By then, the typhoon will be just as capable in the ATG if not better. Comments??? -
FYI th e typhoons are now going to service soon in the 4-nations.Originally posted by warspite:The reason why the Brits are not using the typhoon in the gulf right now is simply because they have yet to enter service!!!!
The first plane should be delivered by now (or within the next couple of months), but nevertheless, the IOC (Initial Operational Capability) should be only around 2005/6.
As for ATG capability, can someone tell me why the rafale is much more superior than the Typhoon? AFAIK, those in service now with the French forces are more towards ATA, with secondary roles in ATG. Yes, they will get more ATG capability gradually, but isn't this the same with the Typhoon. If we buy the Typhoon, we will most likely get ours in 2007/8, which will likely be Tranche 2, Tranche 3 if we wait a wee bit longer or if we take up the options as well. By then, the typhoon will be just as capable in the ATG if not better. Comments??? -
everyone what plane would you choose?
i choose the F-15T -
oh well...not again the same question......
then the debate heats up again -
im talking about your own personal choice.Originally posted by duotiga83:oh well...not again the same question......
then the debate heats up again
you dont have to choose it because of the ability.
you can choose it for the looks and etc. -
personal ah....icic...i like all can?Originally posted by trainner:im talking about your own personal choice.
you dont have to choose it because of the ability.
you can choose it for the looks and etc.
i am a miltary planes fantacic anyway i dun specialise likeness in any1 of them except those that r unique( eg: F-15T, F-16D blk 60, TA-4SU, F-20, rafale mk2, typhoon tranche 3, su-30mki, mig-29m2/smt-2....etc) -
"innocent malaysian" or "superhornet64" or are they all the same?Originally posted by Viper52:Sigh, foxtrout8's right, I shall not let this degenerate into another Singapore v Malaysia thing. Its just playing into a troll's(whos been here before) hands
Thaks for the reminder Foxtrout8! -
Hey, i dont visit this forum for a few days and you blame eveything on me.Originally posted by bcoy:"innocent malaysian" or "superhornet64" or are they all the same?
what the hell did i do -
Reaction very fast ah...
-
People, we tend to focus very much on the next fighter aircraft purchases. However, what about our current fleet of Vipers? The oldest one the A/Bs are coming close to 15 years. What is RSAF going to do with them? I often wonder why not to upgrade them to the MLU/Block 50 standard so that we can better service them? The oldest of the C/D Vipers will also be nearly a decade old in another 2 years time. Should we also look at giving them a minor upgrade, eg. radar to the same APG-68V(5), color LCD displays plus any other upgrades that are found in the latest batch of Vipers RSAF is receiving.
As for the next fighter purchase, my point of view still stands at that we should buy a non-US made aircraft given Singapore is most likely to commit to a JSF purchase. Singapore needs to leverage our unique position (especially at this time) to get the "best" ***operational*** fighter with a good weapon package to boot. That means Rafale currently presents the best option IMO. Otherwise, we may as well settle for Super bugs or F-15T and integrate them with Standoff weapons from Israel. We could also demand JDAMs and Slammer along with the packages. -
I think our A/Bs should be relegated to acrobatic duties with the Black Knights. Its quite humiliating that they are flying with a mixed bag of A-4s and F-16s.
-
Its nowhere near humiliating. It is extremely difficult to fly those 2 types of planes in a single team, and I believe its the first time that any aerobatic team used 2 completely different and extreme mix of aircraft. It goes to show the skill needed to even maintain a simple formation. In fact during AA2000, amongst the pilots which I had a chance to speak to, they were quite impressed with the skills of the Black Knights.Originally posted by Typhoon:I think our A/Bs should be relegated to acrobatic duties with the Black Knights. Its quite humiliating that they are flying with a mixed bag of A-4s and F-16s. -
maybe sell the A/Bs to phillipines air force?
-
Upgrade it through the Falconone program or sell it to another country.Originally posted by Joe Black:People, we tend to focus very much on the next fighter aircraft purchases. However, what about our current fleet of Vipers? The oldest one the A/Bs are coming close to 15 years. What is RSAF going to do with them? I often wonder why not to upgrade them to the MLU/Block 50 standard so that we can better service them? The oldest of the C/D Vipers will also be nearly a decade old in another 2 years time. Should we also look at giving them a minor upgrade, eg. radar to the same APG-68V(5), color LCD displays plus any other upgrades that are found in the latest batch of Vipers RSAF is receiving.
As for the next fighter purchase, my point of view still stands at that we should buy a non-US made aircraft given Singapore is most likely to commit to a JSF purchase. Singapore needs to leverage our unique position (especially at this time) to get the "best" ***operational*** fighter with a good weapon package to boot. That means Rafale currently presents the best option IMO. Otherwise, we may as well settle for Super bugs or F-15T and integrate them with Standoff weapons from Israel. We could also demand JDAMs and Slammer along with the packages. -
I'm very sure if this were to happen, the Fillipinos lurking around in this forum will be very happy. They sometimes read what we post here, and discuss it on their on forum. But it will have to be on "friendly prices".Originally posted by foga:maybe sell the A/Bs to phillipines air force?