guards light strike vehicles
-
Compared to the US humvees of the 101st Airborne, our LSV seem to be under armoured with no protection for the crew at the sides and at the head level despite the fact that both of them perform the same function. What do you guys think?
-
I think it's crazy... what are the guys at ST thinking? That the bullets will automatically miss them?
-
i tot they are similar to the delta vehicle of the us forces?
-
If used for spec ops ultra rapid mobility deployment, I've nothing to say. But it appears they intend to use the flyer for mainstream scouting purposes as well, which is probably sucidal if they encounter an enemy which manages to get a burst of fire at them. They are completely exposed.
-
I think u are comparing more of an apple to an orange.Originally posted by Matlaysia:Compared to the US humvees of the 101st Airborne, our LSV seem to be under armoured with no protection for the crew at the sides and at the head level despite the fact that both of them perform the same function. What do you guys think?
The LSV is to increase mobility of the Guards in our Jungle / Tropical terrain which not many vehicle can do that. The Humvee surely is a no no in such condition. Other than that , the LSV is choosen because it can be transport in reasonable numbers by helicopter to suit our rapid deployment requirement while again not many jeep can provide such luxury.
Abt protection , i dun think it is a problem because the LSV's agility allows it play hit and run warfare. During fighting , firepower from other vehicles will cover the LSV as it run the frontline. Notice that the LSV are armed with rather long ranged and heavier lnfantry weapon. The spike alone give them a strike range of 4 to 8kms.
Abt recon , i believe the LSV are designed for light recon mission where not much resistence will be seen. Ambush frequented LRRP will be carry out mainly by Commandos , Infantry scouts and Fennec Light Heli.
My two cents... -
Hi, well u r pretty close abt the operations of LSV. wat can i say? we reflected the under protection problem for yrs and after so long there's still little done...Originally posted by foxtrout8:The LSV is to increase mobility of the Guards in our Jungle / Tropical terrain which not many vehicle can do that. The Humvee surely is a no no in such condition. Other than that , the LSV is choosen because it can be transport in reasonable numbers by helicopter to suit our rapid deployment requirement while again not many jeep can provide such luxury.
Abt protection , i dun think it is a problem because the LSV's agility allows it play hit and run warfare. During fighting , firepower from other vehicles will cover the LSV as it run the frontline. Notice that the LSV are armed with rather long ranged and heavier lnfantry weapon. The spike alone give them a strike range of 4 to 8kms.
Abt recon , i believe the LSV are designed for light recon mission where not much resistence will be seen. Ambush frequented LRRP will be carry out mainly by Commandos , Infantry scouts and Fennec Light Heli.
sure there were the bulletproof vest and protection "blanket" but nothing concrete...
To the big shots in mindef, the adding of armour protection will be a scarifice on speed and mobility on the lsv.so wat they did was to increase the firepower...
juz for curiosity who were u refering to abt providing cover for the lsv ?
would like to think of our Lsv role as a hybrid btw the delta fast attack(FAV) and Humvee, hence that's why i was trying to find out more in a previous thread...abet no results
Actually, even though with our little or no protection, i'm still confident abt surviving in the Lsv due to the tactics and operation plans...
juz to add, there was once when we wayang for a US general for a demo ride, after the ride he was deeply inmpressed with the vehicle's mobility compared to his humvee and that LSV was more stable than their Delta FAV
also remember that during a joint exercise with the MArines, who brought their humvees, they were very interested in our LSV not so much the vehicle but our mode of operations
But guess back then we were still a hushy little project, hence there went my chance to go on US exercise!!!
juz FYI the most impt quality of the LSV is its versitility...eg. in the way it can be used, for wat purposes and who to use it...
ls trooper :
-
Also, any idea what is the strenght of a guard division, 3 brigades worth of guards and their support equipment? The funny thing about the 101 Airborne is that they and the guards are similarly equipped.Originally posted by foxtrout8:I think u are comparing more of an apple to an orange.
The LSV is to increase mobility of the Guards in our Jungle / Tropical terrain which not many vehicle can do that. The Humvee surely is a no no in such condition. Other than that , the LSV is choosen because it can be transport in reasonable numbers by helicopter to suit our rapid deployment requirement while again not many jeep can provide such luxury.
Abt protection , i dun think it is a problem because the LSV's agility allows it play hit and run warfare. During fighting , firepower from other vehicles will cover the LSV as it run the frontline. Notice that the LSV are armed with rather long ranged and heavier lnfantry weapon. The spike alone give them a strike range of 4 to 8kms.
Abt recon , i believe the LSV are designed for light recon mission where not much resistence will be seen. Ambush frequented LRRP will be carry out mainly by Commandos , Infantry scouts and Fennec Light Heli.
My two cents...
Singapore 101 Airborne
AH-64 Apache Ah 64 apache
Super Puma Blackhawk
Chinook Chinook
LSV Humvee
105 mm Giat Howitzer M119 105mm Howitzer
Any idea what is the purpose of the guards as a lightly armed rapid deployment force will be mince meat when it meets a heavy division? As far as the war in iraq is going on, it seems that the 101 airborne is used as crack troops to sweep up the remnents of saddam's fighters and to create forward bases for arming of apache helicopters. In our case, is there really a need for such a force considering that they are so lightly armed and will be vunerable to sharpnal and small arms fire? -
erm sorry when u meant lightly armed u were comparing to?Originally posted by Matlaysia:Also, any idea what is the strenght of a guard division, 3 brigades worth of guards and their support equipment? The funny thing about the 101 Airborne is that they and the guards are similarly equipped.
Singapore 101 Airborne
AH-64 Apache Ah 64 apache
Super Puma Blackhawk
Chinook Chinook
LSV Humvee
105 mm Giat Howitzer M119 105mm Howitzer
Any idea what is the purpose of the guards as a lightly armed rapid deployment force will be mince meat when it meets a heavy division? As far as the war in iraq is going on, it seems that the 101 airborne is used as crack troops to sweep up the remnents of saddam's fighters and to create forward bases for arming of apache helicopters. In our case, is there really a need for such a force considering that they are so lightly armed and will be vunerable to sharpnal and small arms fire?
anyway first and foremost we must always remember that the SAF is not formed as an offensive force but as a defensive deterence...
well, the guards are used for their mobility in force therefore being heavily armed would hinder speed and resources. -
I dun see how it's agility can help it run from bullets, people anyhow spray in your general direction no matter how fast you can run or dodge with that thing, if the bullet has your name on it you're dead liao. Putting just some panels to protect against 7.62mm will greatly increase survability. Also, it must be some good terrain to allow the LSV 4km of clear ground to get a LOS shoot with a missile. Most of the time engagement distances are much nearer then that. Sorry, right now as it stands, the LSV appears to me nothing more then an overglorified dune buggy that is very poor when it comes to combat roles.
-
The LSV can't afford to take a single hit, even a single a single bullet on a path intersecting the crew compartment will be disasterous, and seeing how open and exposed it is, virtually any shot you fire to hit the LSV near the center of mass will end up passing through the passanger compartment. Even in areas where resistance is light, you're gonna take some fire. Imagine them using the LSV in areas like Um Qusar or Brasa fighting, or even just to scout. A single infantry man firing at it with aimed shots will be bad liao. How fast and agile can you go to avoid the bead of a trained shooter?
-
Yes , very much our Guards are very much shaped from the 101( combine armour , heli support ) , the US rangers ( rappling operation [eg . Somalia ] ) and US Marines ( Amphibous operation ).Originally posted by Matlaysia:In our case, is there really a need for such a force considering that they are so lightly armed and will be vunerable to sharpnal and small arms fire?
However , our needs and the US needs is different . LSV is indeed vulnerable to light arms , but the fact is that LSV will operate in mission whereby in constead friendly support and certainly not a rambo in fighting alone. Im not from the Guards , surely i dunno how the Guards will utilies their cars , however logic will tell mi that if the situation prove too dangerous for LSV , i dun think the LSV will be deployed . Even if it deployed , support will be there for them. All we want is that they move faster than the enemy , punch harder than the enemy and get their ass out faster than anyone. Thats y the LSV is choosen.
I disagree that the LSV is light arm. Comparing the mobility cum weaponary ratio of the LSV to the HUMVEE , our LSV will win.
Two cents... -
no problem broOriginally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:I dun see how it's agility can help it run from bullets, people anyhow spray in your general direction no matter how fast you can run or dodge with that thing, if the bullet has your name on it you're dead liao. Putting just some panels to protect against 7.62mm will greatly increase survability. Also, it must be some good terrain to allow the LSV 4km of clear ground to get a LOS shoot with a missile. Most of the time engagement distances are much nearer then that. Sorry, right now as it stands, the LSV appears to me nothing more then an overglorified dune buggy that is very poor when it comes to combat roles. the panel idea was suggested b4 but due to tactical reasons(i dunno if i haf clearance for these sorry) the panels could and would only be placed in front for the driver...nonetheless nothing was done...
i admit abt the vulnerablity to bullet spray and no amt of speed is going to help but the fact is how close the aggessor would haf to get to the Lsv...but saying that the worse enemy the LSV would haf will be artillery bombardment and Infrantry ambush
as for missile fire think there was some misconception 4 km is not the min distance for spike, if my memory serves me rite..its abt 2km,as for the milan, it can be around 1.7km dun quote me but thats the dist they use for live firing at LCK
BTW spike does not neccesary require LOS, it's got a remote control feature with warhead view to lock on to target.
well, never said it was fantastic, always seems that the big shots were more excited then us...the end users
must be a novelty thing...would probaly die down once a new toy comes along...like the new light tank?
combat capable anot i dun noe but must say there seems to be nothing that is comparable to wat the LSV does for each diff combat role.
ps. the moment i got drafted into LSV oredi understood that casualty is highly and very possible... -
Hey Ah^San , seems like u are from the Guards.
The spike that our Guards are using is the NT version or the ER version???
Another question is that , how many LSV do the Guards operate ??? -
LSV is not compatible with humvee.Originally posted by Matlaysia:Compared to the US humvees of the 101st Airborne, our LSV seem to be under armoured with no protection for the crew at the sides and at the head level despite the fact that both of them perform the same function. What do you guys think?
Humvee is more of transportation wherelse LSV is for offensive purpose.
Yes the crew is under armoured and this vehical suffers damages easily according to my reports. -
hi, yup WAS from the guards, orded almost 4 yrs liaoOriginally posted by foxtrout8:Hey Ah^San , seems like u are from the Guards.
The spike that our Guards are using is the NT version or the ER version???
Another question is that , how many LSV do will have and are ready to deploy ???
(shows u how long LSV was a hushy affair?)
not too sure abt the version now btw NT and ER refers to wat? sorry lah CCC (civilian conversion course) passed out !!
erm as for the LSV no.can't really tell u cos dunno clearance a not...
i noe bks and jane mght haf quoted b4 but beta safe then sorry
lets juz say we are well into the hundreds and yes ready to be deployed. in fact its being used in EAST timor now.. -
same msg...
-
I always thought Armour units are the ones to take up the thrust of any offensive/counterattack, then with Guards to perform flanking moves or clearing of remnants of enemy forces. Well, I'm no great strategist nor professional military man, can anyone care to enlighten me (without leaking secrets...)?
-
Runner for Commander 21st Div. Brigadier General Chua Chwee Koh.Originally posted by ah san:hi, yup WAS from the guards, orded almost 4 yrs liao
(shows u how long LSV was a hushy affair?)
not too sure abt the version now btw NT and ER refers to wat? sorry lah CCC (civilian conversion course) passed out !!
erm as for the LSV no.can't really tell u cos dunno clearance a not...
i noe bks and jane mght haf quoted b4 but beta safe then sorry
lets juz say we are well into the hundreds and yes ready to be deployed. in fact its being used in EAST timor now..
looks like a major is gonna get his ass fried. Investigation in the midst in regards to an LSV incident. -
huh?Originally posted by Flight Cadet Officer:Runner for Commander 21st Div. Brigadier General Chua Chwee Koh.
looks like a major is gonna get his ass fried. Investigation in the midst in regards to an LSV incident. during my time still was Bg. SU
wat happened? my time also got casualty but in the end hushed up... -
Flanking is a strategy, not job scope.Originally posted by warspite:I always thought Armour units are the ones to take up the thrust of any offensive/counterattack, then with Guards to perform flanking moves or clearing of remnants of enemy forces. Well, I'm no great strategist nor professional military man, can anyone care to enlighten me (without leaking secrets...)?
There are 3 Guards Bridage. Specialize in Air, Land, Sea, Recon (BRC), LSV
LSV is designed for offencing troops and light armour vehicle. You may mount a GPMG infront and a TOW or another GPMG above the LSV.
Guards basically clear the way after the Commandos, and than comes the trusty Infantry -
wah u like noe alot of thing abt combat hor?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:The LSV can't afford to take a single hit, even a single a single bullet on a path intersecting the crew compartment will be disasterous, and seeing how open and exposed it is, virtually any shot you fire to hit the LSV near the center of mass will end up passing through the passanger compartment. Even in areas where resistance is light, you're gonna take some fire. Imagine them using the LSV in areas like Um Qusar or Brasa fighting, or even just to scout. A single infantry man firing at it with aimed shots will be bad liao. How fast and agile can you go to avoid the bead of a trained shooter?
which unit ur frm? -
yeah, now is this president scholar... wear specs ..... broke his ligament during guards day, i had to screw the medic upside down before he put down his comic book and double to the scene ....Originally posted by ah san:huh? during my time still was Bg. SU
wat happened? my time also got casualty but in the end hushed up...
Good thing your not servicing under him ...... can still remember the words he said to me during 1 of the excerise .....
"Life's a bitch ain't it huh irwin. imagine yourself out there in the woods without sleep, exhausted......"
"Certainly is sir"
than he takes a sit and enjoy watching charlie advance to an ambush consisting a GPMG at elevated position. -
last i checked in for reservist last yr it was still AGL,Milan or spike..No TOW and GPMG on top??!!Originally posted by Flight Cadet Officer:LSV is designed for offencing troops and light armour vehicle. You may mount a GPMG infront and a TOW or another GPMG above the LSV. -
thats what they did during an exhibit. AGL Milan capable as well.Originally posted by ah san:last i checked in for reservist last yr it was still AGL,Milan or spike..No TOW and GPMG on top??!! -
Y not lets have a discussion on ur ideal LSV . We can state wat we want to see in a LSV such as certain weaponary and defensive features.....