guards light strike vehicles
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The question here is not if the LSV is supposed to stop rounds like a heavy hummer, but if anything can be done to improve it's current protection package, or lack of it. The LSV currently has no protection at all.
I'm sure doing some modifications to add on certain panels to at least give them proof against 7.62mm rounds will greatly add to the survability of this unit without greatly compromising it's mobility. After all it's mobility appears to be an excessive tradeoff for it's lack of protection and they could shave a few kph off to make it a more pratical unit. Rather then crossing your fingers and expecting the enemy not to hit you, which is insane in a firefight. All it takes it one infantryman... Have they actually even tried to run MILEs test to suppose if their assumptions that their speed and agility can allow them to dodge bullets? My suspision is, unless the LSV can do martix-stunts, dodging bullets will be near impossible, even with its speed. The only way LSV be used in operations and expect to survive where the enemy will not resist or fire back at it, which is madness, considering the roles they want it to take up. It's overgunned, overspeeded and unarmoured. Even light resistance of enemy rifle fire will be bad for LSV crew.
Said and done, it appears the LSV operations concept is a greatiy flawed one that could be better filled with better protected units. -
hmm , Dino ...okok , i understand u...
I hope the Mindef will install in panels to protect troops agaisnt small arms ( agaisnt 7.62 , i think alittle impossible in ambush ) in the front and on the side. For the top , i dun think they can offer any protection when the soldier stand up to fire the AGL or ATW.
Not onli the panels have to be able to protect the troop , it must not restrict the troop firing movement within the vehnicle. The strange thing is that almost all SOF light strike vehicle are open aired , with a reason.................. -
wait till war comes then we'll get to see what they might have been storing up just for warOriginally posted by foxtrout8:Is there any vehicle out there on shelf which provide mobility , agility , firepower and protection at the same time???
My answer is no . They have to sacrifice a factor for another. Sad to say , many of the world's most agile war machine lack of armour. The Japanese Zero is one example. They sacrifice armour for speed which made the aircraft a spotlight in WW2.
Our LSV is made for mobility and Agility , thus very unfortunate , sacrifice some firepower and alot of protection .
Btw , for those in Guards , will u all be issued NVGs and body armour in combat??? Im rather impressed when seeing those allied forces in combat, their government do make an effort to equip each and everyone of them NVGs and body armour. Their small arms are modified to enchance accuracy . I have seen photos of rifles and even SAWs equiped with 3x scope .
I believe if Mindef will to adopt such measures , our troop survivability will increase tremendously. -
Scarly it's like Japans secret weapons program... generally ineffective
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no one knows...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Scarly it's like Japans secret weapons program... generally ineffective
let's wait for pre-emptive strike from our brother M -
Siao! Y must we wait for them....we will jolly well conduct it on them....Originally posted by kopiosatu:no one knows...
let's wait for pre-emptive strike from our brother M
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well then the US one of the few countries that produces body armour for every trooper!In the east timor peace keeping troops from Austrialia borrowed 5,000 sets of body armour from the USA!!And i'm not sure about singapore but i've never seen a guy in body armour in sg b4...Originally posted by foxtrout8:Is there any vehicle out there on shelf which provide mobility , agility , firepower and protection at the same time???
My answer is no . They have to sacrifice a factor for another. Sad to say , many of the world's most agile war machine lack of armour. The Japanese Zero is one example. They sacrifice armour for speed which made the aircraft a spotlight in WW2.
Our LSV is made for mobility and Agility , thus very unfortunate , sacrifice some firepower and alot of protection .
Btw , for those in Guards , will u all be issued NVGs and body armour in combat??? Im rather impressed when seeing those allied forces in combat, their government do make an effort to equip each and everyone of them NVGs and body armour. Their small arms are modified to enchance accuracy . I have seen photos of rifles and even SAWs equiped with 3x scope .
I believe if Mindef will to adopt such measures , our troop survivability will increase tremendously. -
gee the LSV... hmmm..... that time i boarded one LSV.. den i knocked into the damn gpmg's buttstock when the vehicle was going over a hump.... %!@#
baluku for 5 days... -
Body armor saves lives, it has been proven over and over again. Field medics in iraq report that allied injuries are mainly in the extremities where they are not protected by armour. The enemy however, come in with horrific wounds to the torso and head and most require surgery.
For anybody who wants to make the lame excuse that body armor restricts movement jolly well take note of what is being proven right now in the middle east, if they haven't listened to all the incidents that have happened before. -
let them attack us so we are made to look like victimsOriginally posted by foxtrout8:Siao! Y must we wait for them....we will jolly well conduct it on them.... -
[quote]Scarly it's like Japans secret weapons program... generally ineffective(/quote)
Japan got secret weapons meh? -
ww2 they came up with a lot of stuff to stop the yanks... some, like the WP anti bomber bomb was spectular, but they were all generally ineffective.
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When a small one attacking a big one , the small one will look like a victim. Worst to worst UN ask for creasefire , by that time , they army crush liao....Originally posted by kopiosatu:let them attack us so we are made to look like victims -
you would be rather naive to think that actually.....not that malaysia has many friends lah but stillOriginally posted by foxtrout8:When a small one attacking a big one , the small one will look like a victim. Worst to worst UN ask for creasefire , by that time , they army crush liao.... -
Maybe the LSV can be equipped with laser target designater. LSV can be used as missile spotter for laser guided bombs. RSAF got or not?
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Yahyah .........try to prove mi wrong .Originally posted by |-|05|:you would be rather naive to think that actually.....not that malaysia has many friends lah but still -
Haha! yeah I know what you mean...Me and my team already wanna die, just carrying our normal load and additional gear...I kena stuck with the radio...walk until blisters form upon blisters...times like that make me wish for my bike...lolOriginally posted by ah san:to Tango1: well can understand how u feel but what other units in the camp dun see is what we dun do without the LSVs
"fatigue" is one thing but on foot is another...nothing much to the normal guardsman rite...well think of the weapon load on a LSV...imagine it all being carried by a 3 man crew!!!
dun even wanna think of the supply load!!!!man!!!
little wonder so many of us downgraded or suffered back injuries...my self only recovered fully after 10mths after ORD!!!
well guess ur airfield scenerio is not going be likely...large no.s of LSVs in an open, exposed terrain r juz too big a target!!!
although haf done offensive raiding exercise b4 but sure was a hell of adrenalin rush!!!!almost too much of a heart attack for me too take!!!
running amok sure looks impressive but to avoid getting into each vehicle's path, AGL and MG line of fire would really take co-ordination and practise!!!
besides think only the mg is impressive enough for fire on the move...had a field time doing that in ossie land
I guess when I first saw them LSV company formed back then was when they were still developing doctrines and trial-testing the vehicle.
I still think an airfield raid is possible with the Chinook. Only that the tactics have to be worked out to prevent blue-on-blue...heh heh...Butterworth beware...lol -
hi, guyz all i can say is give the LSV a chance kah pls
we are very NEW, a very newly formed concept...i suppose when the armour was 1st used ,it must haf been met with suspicions abt being a "moving entrapment", "Big target signature"...b4...
SingaporeTyrannosaur: give lsv some benefit of doubt pls...yes, we haf no protection, its stupid to think that we can dodge bullets but i still haf faith in lsv tactics...
no offence mate
but i assume u noe little abt LSV tactics...i mean i would wan some panels protection too but there are reasons that they can't haf them, related to ops.
Toyed and prototyped with an idea of a protective blanket that can be rolled out to prevent artillery sharpnel....but we scrapped it it requried 6 men juz to load it...how to roll went requried!!!
abt NVG ad body armour: NVG is issued and i really hated the harness man!!! ARgh the pain!!! as for body armour ...unheard of though it was said we were be issued bulletproof jacket...but never seen any...
to Moonstriker: think u got sabo-ed
the mg can be movedto travelling position!! 
ok guys juz to clear some air...the LSV is used by many diff units and for diff. operations...i mean if u haf been following this thread u would haf heard abt the guards, cmdos, infrantry, recce, scouts...u r all not wrong.
each diff units use the LSV differently...i mean in guards itself there are differences...and there r diff. levels of lsv training, most infrantry ns units go and learn the basic capabilities like weapons and driving mainly to replicate their milan jeep training but there r improvments and changes on going..for eg. juz heard from cadet off. abt the xtra mg mounted and tow contraction even though i juz went for reservist in Dec...
bottomline: i agree fully that the LSV is FLAWED but pls be patient and haf faith in us...i can understand all ur doubts abt something u can only c and feel was the same for me until we went overseas training...Wow!! the experience was fantastic in LCk we had a lot of restrictions but overseas the training was really realistic and thats where i realise the capabilities of the LSV... 
put in this way if the buttons pressed one day, i were be back in the LSV manning my mg without a doubt
hope i din offend anyone if i did sorry k 
alls cool rite guyz -
hmmm can spike or milan fire when LSV are still moving?
Ps: sorry for asking stupid
question...... -
Wah, it would be great if can.......
'A few LSVs raid airfield, rush towards tanks then launch their missiles. Then wipe out the troops, plant bomb on airplane then BOOM!! Then faster escape..." -
Thats wat the LSV are build to do. They are build to give the enemy surprises rather then taking surprises from the enemy. Im not sure whelther can it launch a Spike on the move , however if Spikes are fix for launch in fast boats and helicopter of other country , i believe we can launch it on the run too. One unique feature of the spike is their Fire and Forget mode which i believe able them to fire on the move accurately.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Wah, it would be great if can.......
'A few LSVs raid airfield, rush towards tanks then launch their missiles. Then wipe out the troops, plant bomb on airplane then BOOM!! Then faster escape..."
Actually the Spike have a range of abt 2 to 4km for LR versions and 4 to 8km for ER version. I dunno which one the SAF is using. Lets take it that it is the LR version which means that the LSV can engage any ground object at stand-off range of 2 to 4 kms, which mean that they wont need to go so close to raid targets on the move.
Palastinian Freedomfighters view that Spike as a mini-cruisemissile , i believe by now u all shld know how it works without truely revealing the position of the launcher. -
I believe SAF has the Spike LR variant which has a range to 4 KM. This is the version found on most Spike-armed LSV. It might also have the ER variant. A picture of the ER variant on SAF LSV is shown in the Rafael homepage. However, I haven't seen any evidence of it yet on any official SAF statement or press release articles or photos.
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Whelther is it ER or LR , their provide us wif one of the best anti-tank stand-off capacity in the region. Imagine u are in a convey of PT-91 , suddenly out of nowhere over the hills 2 spike missile came picking out the first tank and the last tank . Countermeasure have been made , however too late , more missile came streaking from the sky , picking the remaining tanks one by one through their IR-optic device. Surviving tanks have to face our overwheming spearheading armour columm , the enemies armour convoy had crippled , Bionix and Ultras rush in to pick out their M.Infantrys columm with support of Apaches and Fennecs Scout heli . Anyone try to escape will be chase or be ambush by our fast running LSV. After battle anaylst found that out of 20 LSVs we lost 4 in ambush while the armour faces no losses thanks to overwhemming standoff support from our Apaches and LSVs and intelligence support from the Fennec and SeacherMk2......Originally posted by Joe Black:I believe SAF has the Spike LR variant which has a range to 4 KM. This is the version found on most Spike-armed LSV. It might also have the ER variant. A picture of the ER variant on SAF LSV is shown in the Rafael homepage. However, I haven't seen any evidence of it yet on any official SAF statement or press release articles or photos.
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no problem...no question is stupidOriginally posted by BaKa NeK0:hmmm can spike or milan fire when LSV are still moving?
Ps: sorry for asking stupid question......
k i never tried firing both spike, milan and agl on the move b4 but cos in peacetime training, caution mah.
in theory both spike and AGL should be able to fire on the move but should really be avoided not so much due to weaponary but due to safety...
for most who take their 1st ride in LSV would haf this urge to grip their seat belts or anything when travelling for the 1st time rite now imagine standing on the platform without any seatbelt or safety gear travelling at high speed ...personally i wouldn't fancy a fall out of the LSV...ouch
anyway shouldn't haf to fire on the move...as mentioned as spike has the locked on fire and forget mode.while we dun play the armour role of providing aggressive,supressive charge to overrun the enemy
milan is a wire guided missile u got to control the missile direction MANUALLY so cannot fire on the move
as for AGL fire think can let the Armour handle it with the bionix and ultras lah....LSV got NO armour protection at all leh wouldn't want to song si rite??