Combat experiences of our immediate neighbours.
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wasn't there an incident where a technician ejected himself out of an RMAF MiG parked in a hanger? i think he crashed against the roof and died or something... did he get a medal for that?
oh... and i think we all know the ethnicity of the cartoon who gave the wrong command at NDP... not being racist or anything lah... the dude's supposedly a really promising officer and i think Mindef has "rehabilitated" him somewhat... but under pressure, people always have the tendency to screw up...
like forgetting u're a soldier and cowering in an APC instead of firing back at the enemy, like forgeting safety procedures and getting yourself and other people in danger, like forgetting your own mother tongue
bottom line? shetz happens! realistic training helps u better prepare for that, acknowledging your mistakes and learning from them helps also...
so if somalia was a fiasco, i think its only right that we throw political correctness out the window and view it objectively so that everyone can learn from it. -
Bah, if the japanese were like the malaysians, they'll boast of a great military victory at the battle of midway...
maybe it is to them... it seems to me the MAF considers the mere dropping of bombs or firing of rockets a massive military sucess and will always make a big hoo ha bout it... speaks volumes about their general competency mindset. In the SAF, such things are mundane... -
wasn't there an incident where a technician ejected himself out of an RMAF MiG parked in a hanger? i think he crashed against the roof and died or something... did he get a medal for that?
hey, its not funny. dont make fun with these kind of stuff.
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oh... SUDDENLY its not funny???
so whenever SAF makes a mistake on the parade, during an exercise, or anything, its the talk of the town and all u loud-mouths across the cause way will be yakking about it for weeks and months to come...
when MAF makes a mistake, its not funny???
screw u! i see things for what they are. if SAF screws up and i if know what happened, i say they screwed up! like if the Courageous hit a container ship cos the officer in charge was negligent, THAT'S WHAT IT IS! they screwed up!
of course there are other factors involved... there always are... but as long as the HUMAN element is involved, you'll be stupid to refuse to acknowledge the shortcomings it exposes in your operation/safety procedures.
how else are u supposed to explain the MiG incident? blame the Russians for causing your technician to do the "Johnny English"?
there is no shame in acknowledging and learning from mistakes. don't be childish. -
One thing that's evident from all this is that the MAF screws up, and it screws up often and bigtime as well. And when they screw up, they hush it up and cover it with half-truths and lies.
Witness their dismal preformance in Mog, something which they like to claim they were heros in, when in actual fact they were more like dog-roes...
Let some joker pull rank, waltz into their armory, and cart off weapons to terrorise them with.
Blast their pilots through the roof.
Aquire expensive assets that they eventually discard because of lack of spare parts or expertise to maintain. And the squander their funds on more.
Spend tons of money on already obsolute tanks which will be even more outdated by they time they arrive. And blatantly claim that it's among the most advanced tanks in the world.
Let their navy ships catch fire while in dock becos some guy dunno how to cook properly.
All these you see the MAF hushing it up, or suddenfly getting short term memory loss whenever it is mention, pointing at the window and shouting "Look got seagull throwing itself out of train!"
On the other hand, whenever the SAF screws up, witness Courageous and all the other stuff, it has always been transparent and fortcoming with it because unlike the MAF, it prefers not to repeat these blunders instead of ignoring them and hoping they will just dissapear, while at the same time spitting gutter about them to make themselves look good when they are not.
Innocent Malaysian, I dunno about you, but if you were any sort of patrotic malaysian who wants to do your country any good, your first pirority will be not to buy to utter rubbish your govt. is spitting on the supposed "prowless" of your army and start figuring ways to fight the misinformation and get them to actually do something right, instead of following the party line and being as moronic as they are. -
how else are u supposed to explain the MiG incident? blame the Russians for causing your technician to do the "Johnny English"?
be honest, do u know anything about the mig incident?
u dunno? let me tell u
the mig-29n crashed on the 3rd of september 1998. the plane was on a trainig sortie with another fulcrum and they took off at 0900 hours.
on 9th september 1998, findings of the investigations showed that it crashed due to technical problems.
the technical probl is battery failure leading to malfunction of other systems causing the plane to lose altitude rapidly.
when the pilot mej mohd fauzi salleh was attempting to RTB, he ejected about 4 miles from kuantan. -
Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:
so its a pilot not a technician?
be honest, do u know [b]anything about the mig incident?
u dunno? let me tell u
the mig-29n crashed on the 3rd of september 1998. the plane was on a trainig sortie with another fulcrum and they took off at 0900 hours.
on 9th september 1998, findings of the investigations showed that it crashed due to technical problems.
the technical probl is battery failure leading to malfunction of other systems causing the plane to lose altitude rapidly.
when the pilot mej mohd fauzi salleh was attempting to RTB, he ejected about 4 miles from kuantan.[/b]
tot it happen in the hanger? how come now its in the air?
since when CX says the plane crash? read carefully pls...n i tot ur the ass who laff at us in the 1st place?
so ur tryin to use ur FM or the Iraq information minister propaganda skill?
so i guess it was in the Msian paper?
so which is which? -
In battle, there's the Fog of War... who knows what actually happened?
I tend to take everything with a pinch.. no a whole shakerful of salt when the military says anything.
Yasser Arafat has declared victory in the past.. for his terrorist campaigns where 1 or 2 innocent civilians were killed but his whole squad of terrorists were wiped out because of their or his own incompetence. The Palestinians believe him. The armed forces that wiped out the terrorists say another story while the survivors of the hijackings and others give a third version.
Frankly, the need to have a military is a total screwup.
There is a philosophy that militaries in the world are the largest parasites known to humanity... but that is another story in itself... you don't hear that coming from the military itself, do you?
If the cock-ups are Darwin Award candidates, say so, learn, maybe laugh about the tragedy and MOVE ON....
Nationalism is probably the last refuge for...
that's all I'll say... -
Oh...and you laughing about the RSS Courageous incident and the death of the 4 RSN crew at the Fighters Forum is funny? As I recall it, after you laughed at it the first time, your post was deleted and you were censured by the moderators over there. and you replied with something to the effect of "They're only Sings, don't feel sorry for them" with a couple of laughs for good effect.Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:hey, its not funny. dont make fun with these kind of stuff.
So was that funny then? -
sigh... why bother getting so worked up... i tell ya, if u gather a bunch of former military men together and buy them several rounds of booze, they'll laugh themselves stupid telling each other about the stupid things they've encountered during their time in whatever army they served in...
some of the things u'll hear from them will sound like its straight out of a "Beetle Baily" comic strip... or "Dilbert" for that matter...
militaries are like any organisations... they're not perfect and they screw up... how they react to it is another matter...
so like i said, throw political correctness out the window and see things in its proper perspective.
so what if battery failure or system malfunctions caused a mishap? it boils down to negligence on the part of the maintenance crew if u have to get someone to answer for it. so its STILL human error and STILL a screw up.
thats why i say: don't go through the motion of political correctness... a cock up is a cock up... -
I tot they use electrical stoves now?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Let their navy ships catch fire while in dock becos some guy dunno how to cook properly. -
Sigh....
Folks , everyone have their own cock up , it is inevitable.
Wat differiente a efficent force and a sub-standard force is that the efficent party will try all they could to prevent cock ups sometimes even with tremdous constrints they have to face. If a suay suay cock up occur , the efficent party will sit down and analyst wat when wrong and how to prevent it in the future.
Toking abt maintainence , my school Operation Manager was from the RSAF , last friday , i manage to have a light conversation for over at hour on his experience in field. Mind mi innocent malaysia , but one of the questions was '' how well does the RSAF fare , incomparision to RMAF''.
Well his answer was simple. The working attitude of the RMAF personnel is extremely poor, if we will to compare. It took 10 Malaysian RMAF personnel to service an F-5E while it took onli 2 to 3 RSAF personnel to get the job done at the same speed. The Malaysian Personnel arent at all proud of their work , they are slower and of course less efficent. That is one of the reasons y the RSAF can fare better then the RMAF.
Abt combat experience...hmm. I would say the Malaysian did a good job over at Somalia. They fought and came back alive ( with one casualty ), lets give them some credits for their action.
However , i will not see it as a damm heroic action. FIrstly the malaysian were stationed there at the point of time. They are simpily in the wrong place and at the wrong time. They cant reject UN's Mandate on the rescue , so , i will see it as a no choice situation. It is not that 10 countries were stationed there and malaysia volunteered herself to save the Rangers.
Anyway since the Soldiers had fought and came back with the minimum casualties , lets give them some credits...... -
Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:
I think your news report is wrong. Can't be battery failure. Even A4s have backup systems in case of battery failure and I don't think aircraft use batteries in the air (should check with E & I guys). Think they take electrical power straight from engine (I'm not sure).
be honest, do u know [b]anything about the mig incident?
u dunno? let me tell u
the mig-29n crashed on the 3rd of september 1998. the plane was on a trainig sortie with another fulcrum and they took off at 0900 hours.
on 9th september 1998, findings of the investigations showed that it crashed due to technical problems.
the technical probl is battery failure leading to malfunction of other systems causing the plane to lose altitude rapidly.
when the pilot mej mohd fauzi salleh was attempting to RTB, he ejected about 4 miles from kuantan.[/b]
A4s are 50s era aircraft and still have Ram Air Turbines for emergency
electrical power. Don't tell me Migs don't have that? I believe that even with total electrical power failure with no backup. The pilot can still maneuver the plane by disable all the control surface actuators and use brute strength to control the planes, assuming not using hydraulic actuators. We do that all the time with our planes. If anybody know the answers, tell me why that can happen to a 70s plane. Thanks.
I'm just an airframe man but I do know some basic informations since I watch my other trade friends work as well. -
I HAVE ALREADY TOLD U GUYS.Originally posted by Viper52:Oh...and you laughing about the RSS Courageous incident and the death of the 4 RSN crew at the Fighters Forum is funny? As I recall it, after you laughed at it the first time, your post was deleted and you were censured by the moderators over there. and you replied with something to the effect of "They're only Sings, don't feel sorry for them" with a couple of laughs for good effect.
So was that funny then?
in the fighters forum, i am not innocent malaysian.
i am sh64 there.
the innocent malaysiain there is a fake. -
i didnt get from newws report.Originally posted by Hornet145:I think your news report is wrong. Can't be battery failure. Even A4s have backup systems in case of battery failure and I don't think aircraft use batteries in the air (should check with E & I guys). Think they take electrical power straight from engine (I'm not sure).
A4s are 50s era aircraft and still have Ram Air Turbines for emergency
electrical power. Don't tell me Migs don't have that? I believe that even with total electrical power failure with no backup. The pilot can still maneuver the plane by disable all the control surface actuators and use brute strength to control the planes, assuming not using hydraulic actuators. We do that all the time with our planes. If anybody know the answers, tell me why that can happen to a 70s plane. Thanks.
I'm just an airframe man but I do know some basic informations since I watch my other trade friends work as well.
i am 100% sure its battey failure
bottom line -
i thought u were talking about when the mig crash.Originally posted by NathanG5:so its a pilot not a technician?
tot it happen in the hanger? how come now its in the air?
since when CX says the plane crash? read carefully pls...n i tot ur the ass who laff at us in the 1st place?
so ur tryin to use ur FM or the Iraq information minister propaganda skill?
so i guess it was in the Msian paper?
so which is which?
not the ejection thing -
THe mig incident and the eject through roof is different... THe eject into roof was from a Hawk. They migs... they just crashed... malaysians in all cases...
eagerly awaiting the next large MAF blunder, it happens average of once every 1.5 months. There's always a wealth of funny incidents which show the paetheicness of the MAF.
On the other hand, SAF blunders are rare and I the fact that pple like you across the causeway make a large hoo ha about it is even more cause for laughs at your own ignorance and sheer Iraqi Information Minister style... becos you can't even get your act together and you think that somehow you have the "best" force in the region... pleeze, go fly kite...
Keep it coming, you might even get a website dedicated to the "deathless quotes" your MAF makes, just like MSS. Let me name one liao:
"PT-91s are among the most advanced tanks in the world"
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!! 
Please, I'll betcha if you aquired our SM1 tanks, I'll suddenly see some article about how the SM1 tank in the most advanced light tank in the world.... with lots of technobabble trying to justify it...
This in one emoticon, sums up your armed forces: stock.
And it's no flame, it's a fact. -
just to add:
:typhoon" at sgforums has admitted before that he is the fake InnocentMalaysian at the fighter planes forum
he is trying to make me look bad. -
Sure, blame the russians or an inaminate object... no malaysians were at fault here... they are the flawless heros who never fail to let terrorists cart weapons away from they armory, and punch their pilots through the roof.Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:i didnt get from newws report.
i am 100% sure its battey failure
bottom line
Hello, the bottom line is, irregardless of the battery or what mechnical nonsense, the MAF screwed up, either in buying the junk migs in the first place or lacking the intelligence to maintain them, but why am I even stating the obvious? Your propangada has brainwashed you into pinning all the blame on a battery, when it fact the battery failed becos of the jokers you call your "airforce" not knowing how to take care of their planes...
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btw, i have the best sig here.
i dare u to download it.
(its not a virus.....i think ) -
And the little media file in your sig in not impressive at all, your seawolf outdated liao, I dun see the americans making glizty videos on how powerful their civil war muskets are.
please, the least you can do for your nation is take down that file and avoid embarrasing your armed forces to the rest of the world. -
why isnt it impressive?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:And the little media file in your sig in not impressive at all, your seawolf outdated liao, I dun see the americans making glizty videos on how powerful their civil war muskets are.
please, the least you can do for your nation is take down that file and avoid embarrasing your armed forces to the rest of the world.
biased person -
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Innocent Malaysian was confused. What he was talking about was how 1 of their Migs was lost. However, what you all were refering to was the incident in the hangar where 1 technician made himself go ballistic by accident. The 2 incidents are totally unrelated.
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ppl do screw things up.....we r not flawless u know......