Combat experiences of our immediate neighbours.
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yeah yeah... i made a mistake with the Mig and the hawk... hardware's not my area of expertise...
so... did the dude bash his head through the roof of a hangar or not? does it really matter if he shot his arse off a MiG or a Hawk????
sigh... if this goes on, its gonna degenerate into a pissing contest... if it ever comes to that, DON'T jio me... bo liao... -
mig-29 and hawk is like bannana and strawberryOriginally posted by CX:yeah yeah... i made a mistake with the Mig and the hawk... hardware's not my area of expertise...
so... did the dude bash his head through the roof of a hangar or not? does it really matter if he shot his arse off a MiG or a Hawk????
sigh... if this goes on, its gonna degenerate into a pissing contest... if it ever comes to that, DON'T jio me... bo liao... -
the official findings released on 9th september showed it was technical error.Originally posted by |-|05|:Exocet fire from what??
Anyway the Malaysian Mig-29 crash was due to pilot error i think not mantenince problems though that might also be the cause
not pilot error
i u dun noe anything about the incident, dun say " pilot error..i think"
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Let me post again what happened to the MiG
On 3rd September 1998, at 0900 hours, 2 MiG-29Ns from SQN 19 took off for a training sortie.
After about 16 minutes from take off, one of the MiGs had system malfunction leading to battery failure.
The pilot, Mej Mohamad Fauzi Salleh, while attempting to return to base was forced to eject about 4
miles from Kuantan.
He crashed in the jungle near Kampung Jaya Gading
Although the pilot got away without any seriuos injuries, he was still taken to a military hospital by a Nuri.
Official findings of the investigation into the crash reported on September 9 confirmed that a technical fault appeared to be to blame.
THE CRASH WAS NOT DUE TO PILOT ERROR.
So if u want to say pilot error, back it up with proof...dont say "i think" when u dont know what happened.
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So who is this technical fault due to? Oh I supposed the plane just spolit itself right?
Your MAF still proves itself lously, if not more if it's planes come apart midair.
Pls stop trying to defend your army, it is paethetic, par say, and you end up like MSS trying to say iraqi si somehow doing well in the war.... -
all planes will have tech problems in the air.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:So who is this technical fault due to? Oh I supposed the plane just spolit itself right?
Your MAF still proves itself lously, if not more if it's planes come apart midair.
Pls stop trying to defend your army, it is paethetic, par say, and you end up like MSS trying to say iraqi si somehow doing well in the war....
if it was due to RMAF maintenance, the a/c wont even be allowed in the air.
Why cant u just accept that it is a typical technical error?
Why must it be RMAF maintenance problem?
u r just trying and trying to make it the RMAF's fault....but it is just another typical tech prob
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stop repeating abt the MIG..we wan to noe wat happen to the HAWK accident..stop acting like ur FM pls...Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:Let me post again what happened to the MiG
On 3rd September 1998, at 0900 hours, 2 MiG-29Ns from SQN 19 took off for a training sortie.
After about 16 minutes from take off, one of the MiGs had system malfunction leading to battery failure.
The pilot, Mej Mohamad Fauzi Salleh, while attempting to return to base was forced to eject about 4
miles from Kuantan.
He crashed in the jungle near Kampung Jaya Gading
Although the pilot got away without any seriuos injuries, he was still taken to a military hospital by a Nuri.
Official findings of the investigation into the crash reported on September 9 confirmed that a technical fault appeared to be to blame.
THE CRASH WAS NOT DUE TO PILOT ERROR.
So if u want to say pilot error, back it up with proof...dont say "i think" when u dont know what happened.
u aint tat smart to understand eh? so wat not the pilot fault..the plane still crash rite?
so wat happen to the HAWK? -
stop repeating abt the MIG..we wan to noe wat happen to the HAWK accident..stop acting like ur FM pls...
i didnt want to repeat but after i explained, there was a guy that didnt even read the previuos posts and say " it was pilot error..i think"
u aint tat smart to understand eh? so wat not the pilot fault..the plane still crash rite?
so wat happen to the HAWK?
qoeted from |-|05|Anyway the Malaysian Mig-29 crash was due to pilot error i think not mantenince problems though that might also be the cause
he said this even after i explained.... -
Are you sure all?Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:all planes will have tech problems in the air.
if it was due to RMAF maintenance, the a/c wont even be allowed in the air.
Why cant u just accept that it is a typical technical error?
Why must it be RMAF maintenance problem?
u r just trying and trying to make it the RMAF's fault....but it is just another typical tech prob
Sadly for the RMAF, the maintenance problems had to show up when the plane is in the air.
Typical? Technical errors which cause a write off is never typical. Maybe it is to RMAF... Since they crash one ever so often. What happened to the hawk that became a submersible? -
u and i dont know what happened so stop just making up things to counter what im saying.Originally posted by EXCO:Are you sure all?
Sadly for the RMAF, the maintenance problems had to show up when the plane is in the air.
Typical? Technical errors which cause a write off is never typical. Maybe it is to RMAF... Since they crash one ever so often. What happened to the hawk that became a submersible?
if u want to believe, believe....if not...i cant help u. -
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:So who is this technical fault due to? Oh I supposed the plane just spolit itself right?
Your MAF still proves itself lously, if not more if it's planes come apart midair. -
I got it from a MALAYSIAN website.The guy said the pilot's error was glossed over due to other pressing stories at that time namely the Anwar case.Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:Let me post again what happened to the MiG
On 3rd September 1998, at 0900 hours, 2 MiG-29Ns from SQN 19 took off for a training sortie.
After about 16 minutes from take off, one of the MiGs had system malfunction leading to battery failure.
The pilot, Mej Mohamad Fauzi Salleh, while attempting to return to base was forced to eject about 4
miles from Kuantan.
He crashed in the jungle near Kampung Jaya Gading
Although the pilot got away without any seriuos injuries, he was still taken to a military hospital by a Nuri.
Official findings of the investigation into the crash reported on September 9 confirmed that a technical fault appeared to be to blame.
THE CRASH WAS NOT DUE TO PILOT ERROR.
So if u want to say pilot error, back it up with proof...dont say "i think" when u dont know what happened.
PS i would like the officail report on a webpage if it's possible.Other then that Malaysian guy's website i could not find another report on it. -
Once again, you are trying to use the propangadic material you brought along like your blankie you cannot seperate from and expect it to hold up to logic. Sorry, but it just won't work. Hello, you think your govt. who touts PT-91s as most advanced and everything good, good good in the military will admit to even a bit of error in this crash? I suggest you use your brain and think a little.
We are not making up stuff to counter you, what is happening is that we are questioning your logic in this thread, which is, like the "PT-91 is one of the most advanced tanks in the world" is extremely weak, typical MSS Malaysian style.
Innocent Malaysian, what you are asking us to accept is that the mig crashing was just a "typical" technical error and that the MAF did not screw up. This is not possible, either way, the MAF will screw up.
If this is the "typical" error you suggested, it means two things.
The MAF screwed up in getting such aircraft in poor shape that will come apart in mid air, hence it's not smart in getting weapons, it just wants the nicest, not the smartest toys to show off.
The MAF ground crew is so imcompetent that it was unable to fix this "typical' technical fault.
But of course, this "typical" technical error is hardly typical at all, if this was typical, your stupid MAL aircraft would be falling out of the skies killing thousands and you would still blame it on "typical" errors. Typical errors are in the likes of engine trouble or like hydraulic pressure low, when it plane crashes and your "pilots" need a nylon let down, this is not "typical" at all! These planes are designed to go to extreme conditions and limits and do so for years without fail and you are trying to say here that one brand new purchase and cream of the crop falls out of the sky it is typical? Yeah, as if an F-22 crashes, the US wun look into it and write it off as "typical". Please....
What is apparent here is however, the MAF just can't take care of it's aircraft! That's why crap happens to them, and so often as well! Simple as that! There's a lot they can do to avoid these kinds of screw ups, just look at the RSAF which strives to be accident free, and they have had a pretty good record.
Unless the MAF has been taking RSAF like measures to ensure aircrew safety, you better shut your mouth and do some serious soul searching before you blame it on your glitzy new aircraft that somehow comes apart around you because you either made the wrong purchase or dun know how to take care of it.
What you and your MAF is doing now is typical malaysian... bad workmen blaming the tools... sorry, if you dunno how to handle it, dun blame it when you get hurt by it. -
No i think he meant errors like this are typical technical errors that the MAF makes......makes me wonder what are the non-typical errors!Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Once again, you are trying to use the propangadic material you brought along like your blankie you cannot seperate from and expect it to hold up to logic. Sorry, but it just won't work. Hello, you think your govt. who touts PT-91s as most advanced and everything good, good good in the military will admit to even a bit of error in this crash? I suggest you use your brain and think a little.
We are not making up stuff to counter you, what is happening is that we are questioning your logic in this thread, which is, like the "PT-91 is one of the most advanced tanks in the world" is extremely weak, typical MSS Malaysian style.
Innocent Malaysian, what you are asking us to accept is that the mig crashing was just a "typical" technical error and that the MAF did not screw up. This is not possible, either way, the MAF will screw up.
If this is the "typical" error you suggested, it means two things.
The MAF screwed up in getting such aircraft in poor shape that will come apart in mid air, hence it's not smart in getting weapons, it just wants the nicest, not the smartest toys to show off.
The MAF ground crew is so imcompetent that it was unable to fix this "typical' technical fault.
But of course, this "typical" technical error is hardly typical at all, if this was typical, your stupid MAL aircraft would be falling out of the skies killing thousands and you would still blame it on "typical" errors. Typical errors are in the likes of engine trouble or like hydraulic pressure low, when it plane crashes and your "pilots" need a nylon let down, this is not "typical" at all! These planes are designed to go to extreme conditions and limits and do so for years without fail and you are trying to say here that one brand new purchase and cream of the crop falls out of the sky it is typical? Yeah, as if an F-22 crashes, the US wun look into it and write it off as "typical". Please....
What is apparent here is however, the MAF just can't take care of it's aircraft! That's why crap happens to them, and so often as well! Simple as that! There's a lot they can do to avoid these kinds of screw ups, just look at the RSAF which strives to be accident free, and they have had a pretty good record.
Unless the MAF has been taking RSAF like measures to ensure aircrew safety, you better shut your mouth and do some serious soul searching before you blame it on your glitzy new aircraft that somehow comes apart around you because you either made the wrong purchase or dun know how to take care of it.
What you and your MAF is doing now is typical malaysian... bad workmen blaming the tools... sorry, if you dunno how to handle it, dun blame it when you get hurt by it. 
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can u give me the URL?Originally posted by |-|05|:I got it from a MALAYSIAN website.The guy said the pilot's error was glossed over due to other pressing stories at that time namely the Anwar case.
PS i would like the officail report on a webpage if it's possible.Other then that Malaysian guy's website i could not find another report on it.
i dot ave the info on a website.
a lot of things are not on the net.
not everything is on the net -
yea sure ill find it againOriginally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:can u give me the URL?
i dot ave the info on a website.
a lot of things are not on the net.
not everything is on the net -
http://www.littlespeck.com/informed/2002/CInformed-021207ns.htm
As for the level of preparedness of the armed forces, one frequently reads of plane crashes.
One of the very expensive MIG 29s crashed in 1998, the week that ex-deputy premier Anwar Ibrahim was arrested. The news was soon forgotten in the excitement of Anwar's detention.
Presumably the Defence Ministry takes the same view as our current education minister that 'human errors are inevitable. Everyone makes mistakes".
And gallantly excuses the pilots and congratulates them on successfully bailing out of their $100 million aircraft.
Oh and anything that is official and indeed most unofficial things are online.......
the net as everything actually well cept if u wanted a real female 
Notes:The $100million in that page is in malaysian riggit not USD -
is it on a credible website like news website oe organisation or is it done by an individual?Originally posted by |-|05|:yea sure ill find it again
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individual which is not credible but still the only mention of it! heck it wasnt even on a russian site for MiG-29 known issues and crashes!!Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:is it on a credible website like news website oe organisation or is it done by an individual? -
are u talking about wengkius' website?Originally posted by |-|05|:individual which is not credible but still the only mention of it! heck it wasnt even on a russian site for MiG-29 known issues and crashes!!
if so, he has changed it to technical problems from pilot error -
it's posted up there...go look and tell me wad you think......it's the only article i found so yea.....and it was written by a malaysian so it is not really bias i think.But if you have something better by all means post it!Originally posted by Innocent_Malaysian:are u talking about wengkius' website?
if so, he has changed it to technical problems from pilot error
anyway thats all for me tonight ill be going to read some books now cyas -
Innocent Malaysian, it's crunch time for you... respond to this. Are you still going to justify your armed forces as anything near competent or heroic, given all the things that have been exposed here? They are as follows:
The dismal preformance of the malaysian soldiers in Mog which the malaysian govt. played up as heros. Soldiers which simply drove their apcs up, virtually ignored orders given to them to shoot back or move to avoid attracting fire, or stop to give cover, and even drove off with their fresh troops inside while many of the rangers (many injured and some even shot up) which had fought 16 hours they were supposed to fery home were forced to run back on foot behind them, exposed to fire all the way. And later this is played as anykind of a sucessful extraction by the malaysians when in actual fact they deserve to be court-martialed for cowardace.
Allowing some mad man dressed as a colonel to take arms from their high-security armory.
Shoot their own pilot through the roof.
Crash their cream of the crop migs, and explain it as a "typical error"
Tout the PT-91 as one of the most advanced tanks in the world, while the rest of the world shake their heads.
Let two of their ships catch fire while in dock because some cook could not control his stove and some engineer cannot figure out his engine?
Mount obsolute SAM systems on their two precious ships, and then tout them as if they are so powerful when in real life their preformance in combat left a lot to be desired (look around, there are many better SAM systems).
Now, are all these things consistent with a armed force that is profesional in it's conduct and has maintained a relatively mistake free operation of top rate men and equipment?
Or do you have nothing to say.
Answer the question, and don't you dare to be evasive or change the subject. -
It seems to me that the MAF is more of a tida apas force then a professional force... get the most ex toys, but they are not really professional about it. They seem to be more concerned about getting toys that can match singapore rather then getting their act together. Which is laughable...
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sigh sigh... why bother... this is getting uncivilised...
frankly, accidents are not typical... planes do not normally crash... well-maintained ones especially, crash even LESS...
now, call me ignorant, but i do know that RMAF is not known for its logistics and maintenance...
and modern wars ARE mostly about logistics AND maintenance... not just firepower...
now, Sg and M'sia are neighbours... there'll probably be more chances to work together than fight each other...
its NOT good news if MAF's capabilities are eroded due to shoddy maintenance and poor logistics... there are more pressing problems facing us: piracy, terrorism, sars... and ALL these problems requires software more than firepower. -
The malaysians could help things around here a lot if they could recover (assuming they had it in a first place) a wee bit of common sense and trasnparency instead of always trying to put up fronts that outsiders see right through and shake their head at which only suceed in decieving and deluding their own people.