US won't sell new fighter jets to Taiwan
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WASHINGTON : The United States has decided not to sell Taiwan new F-16 fighter jets and will instead provide upgrades to its existing planes, a US congressional source said Friday.
The US State Department was to brief key lawmakers Friday on the decision, which was sure to anger China critics in the US Congress and upset Taiwan, but "no official announcement will be made for weeks," the official said.
"We are hearing from State that it will be an upgrade and no sale," the source, who requested anonymity, told AFP.
Taiwan applied in 2007 to buy 66 F-16 C/D fighters, which have better radars and more powerful weapon systems than the 146 F-16 A/Bs it currently has, in response to China's growing military muscle.
US magazine Defense News reported recently that Washington had told Taiwan it will not sell the jets, but both US and Taiwan officials have insisted no final decision has been made, amid strong Chinese resistance to the sales.
And the Washington Times reported Thursday that the upgrades would be part of a $4.2 billion arms package for Taiwan from US President Barack Obama's administration.
The White House in January 2010 had announced a $6.4 billion arms deal with Taiwan which included Patriot missiles, Black Hawk helicopters and equipment for Taiwan's existing F-16 fleet, but no submarines or new fighter jets.
Beijing considers Taiwan part of its territory awaiting reunification with the mainland, by force if necessary.
Washington recognizes Beijing rather than Taipei but remains a leading arms supplier to the island.
In response to the reports, Republican Senator John Cornyn condemned the decision as "capitulation to Communist China" and "a sad day in American foreign policy" as well as "a slap in the face to a strong ally and long-time friend."
"This sale would have been a win-win, bolstering the national security of two democratic nations and supporting jobs for an American workforce that desperately needs them," he said in a statement.
And Tseng Yung-chuan, the deputy speaker of Taiwan's parliament and member of the ruling Kuomintang party, renewed calls for the fighter jets during talks with senior US lawmakers in Washington earlier this week.
If the administration decides against selling F-16 jets, "the people of Taiwan will feel regret," Tseng told AFP in an interview on Tuesday.
- AFP /lsfrom cna
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When a longtime ally wishes to pay cash for a big order of much needed aircraft from a production line that will shed its jobs in 2 years time unless a far more uncertain customer buys (Iraq) only because you have shut them out of an even more expensive aircraft, and Chinese pressure wins, it's a sad day.
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Their F-5 been crashing... Yet there's no replacement..
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Originally posted by alize:
When a longtime ally wishes to pay cash for a big order of much needed aircraft from a production line that will shed its jobs in 2 years time unless a far more uncertain customer buys (Iraq) only because you have shut them out of an even more expensive aircraft, and Chinese pressure wins, it's a sad day.
If China start dumping US bond, that will be more costly.Anyway, its good for Taiwan. Buying those F-16 is as good as throwing away the money if comes to defend Taiwan against PRC..
I bet the plane haven't even take off will be destroy on ground by Super long range rocket or ballistic missile from PRC..
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Originally posted by zenden9:
If China start dumping US bond, that will be more costly.Anyway, its good for Taiwan. Buying those F-16 is as good as throwing away the money if comes to defend Taiwan against PRC..
I bet the plane haven't even take off will be destroy on ground by Super long range rocket or ballistic missile from PRC..
I don't think you know what missile defence and Taiwan's own HF cruise missiles are for.
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US should start minding their own business.
they should stay out of other countries' affairs.
i hope china/taiwan and north korea/south korea can unite.
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U.S is always using the Tibet, Taiwan and other issues to make trouble and try to contain China.
I think U.S better take care of their own affairs and stop messing with others.
Troublemaker.
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they wun sell, but will the US let Taiwan make new fighter jets under their licence for the F-16D and other aircraft?
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Originally posted by alize:
I don't think you know what missile defence and Taiwan's own HF cruise missiles are for.
I think you know nothing.. Missile defence? How many Patriot missile ROC have against multiple long range rocket fitted with GPS correction from Russia GLONAS or Chinese Beidou II??And do you know what is ballistic missile and how to intercept them?? They descend from space...
And HF III cruise missile probably can be easily intercept by CWIS. Super sonic missiles are easily spotted by their high heat signature despite its fast speed
Finally , the final nail. ROC HFIII are crap..
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1101&MainCatID=&id=20110629000026
Tell me how can ROC defend against PRC?? Please update yrself of th lastest technology of both side. If a war broke out now. ROC will be captured by PRC in less than 24 hrs.
Taiwan's newest supersonic missile failed to launch and missed it's target during a missile drill held at a ROC southeast sea military base, to the embarrassment of the military. Picture: The supersonic missile at its first showing to the public. (Internet Photo)
In the middle of this month, China's military conducted its largest ever naval training exercise with ships crossing the first island chain of the Pacific for the fifth time. The PLA exercise prompted a swift response from Japan, which put its self-defense forces on full alert, and the United States, which dispatched the aircraft carrier George Washington south to the western Pacific to carry out military drills.
At the same time, Taiwan's navy was also secretly conducting a firing test of a new missile off its southeast coast. Embarrassingly, the newest Hsiung Feng III missile overshot its target and the ROC Navy initially withheld the news to save face.
The "carrier killer" supersonic Hsiung Feng III began mass production and was transferred to the Navy for deployment last year, after completion of assessments and tests by the country's Chung-Shan Institute of Science & Technology.
It is understood that up to this point only Russia and Taiwan have the capability to produce such supersonic surface and air attack missiles. These missiles cost NT$100 million (US$3.5 million) each.
Reportedly the ROC Navy and the Chung-Shan Institute have launched a joint investigation into the incident. One admiral said the failure was due mainly to the missile's performance problems, ruling out human error.
As for the timing of the test, the Navy stressed it was an event arranged earlier and had nothing to do with the military exercises conducted in the western Pacific by China, the US and Japan.
In addition to the Hsiung Feng III, the Navy also test fired the Hsiung Feng I and Hsiung Feng II as well as Harpoon missiles and sea-to-air Sea Chaparral missiles. The hit rate of these weapons all met targets set by Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense.
According to the Chung-Shan Institute, the newly developed Hsiung Feng III can be matched only by the Russian-made SS-N-22 Sunburn. The four modern-class destroyers China purchased from Russia are all equipped with the same type of missile.
At the same time, Taiwan also has equipped its Cheng Kung class frigates and Jin class patrol vessels with Hsiung Feng III missiles.
While expensive, the Hsiung Feng III's supersonic attack capability with speed exceeding Mach 2 makes it difficult for ships to avoid and could pose an enormous threat to any aircraft carrier.
To cope with the Chinese navy's ability to cross the first island chain, the Ministry of National Defense is planning to install four Hsiung Feng III missiles on each of the eight Cheng Kung class frigates and on each of the seven Jin class patrol vessels.
In addition, the ministry will also equip each of its new coastal patrol vessels under development with eight Hsiung Feng III missiles. Plans also are under way to develop a
Taiwan's newest supersonic missile failed to launch and missed it's target during a missile drill held at a ROC southeast sea military base, to the embarrassment of the military. Picture: The supersonic missile at its first showing to the public. (Internet Photo)
In the middle of this month, China's military conducted its largest ever naval training exercise with ships crossing the first island chain of the Pacific for the fifth time. The PLA exercise prompted a swift response from Japan, which put its self-defense forces on full alert, and the United States, which dispatched the aircraft carrier George Washington south to the western Pacific to carry out military drills.
At the same time, Taiwan's navy was also secretly conducting a firing test of a new missile off its southeast coast. Embarrassingly, the newest Hsiung Feng III missile overshot its target and the ROC Navy initially withheld the news to save face.
The "carrier killer" supersonic Hsiung Feng III began mass production and was transferred to the Navy for deployment last year, after completion of assessments and tests by the country's Chung-Shan Institute of Science & Technology.
It is understood that up to this point only Russia and Taiwan have the capability to produce such supersonic surface and air attack missiles. These missiles cost NT$100 million (US$3.5 million) each.
Reportedly the ROC Navy and the Chung-Shan Institute have launched a joint investigation into the incident. One admiral said the failure was due mainly to the missile's performance problems, ruling out human error.
As for the timing of the test, the Navy stressed it was an event arranged earlier and had nothing to do with the military exercises conducted in the western Pacific by China, the US and Japan.
In addition to the Hsiung Feng III, the Navy also test fired the Hsiung Feng I and Hsiung Feng II as well as Harpoon missiles and sea-to-air Sea Chaparral missiles. The hit rate of these weapons all met targets set by Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense.
According to the Chung-Shan Institute, the newly developed Hsiung Feng III can be matched only by the Russian-made SS-N-22 Sunburn. The four modern-class destroyers China purchased from Russia are all equipped with the same type of missile.
At the same time, Taiwan also has equipped its Cheng Kung class frigates and Jin class patrol vessels with Hsiung Feng III missiles.
While expensive, the Hsiung Feng III's supersonic attack capability with speed exceeding Mach 2 makes it difficult for ships to avoid and could pose an enormous threat to any aircraft carrier.
To cope with the Chinese navy's ability to cross the first island chain, the Ministry of National Defense is planning to install four Hsiung Feng III missiles on each of the eight Cheng Kung class frigates and on each of the seven Jin class patrol vessels.
In addition, the ministry will also equip each of its new coastal patrol vessels under development with eight Hsiung Feng III missiles. Plans also are under way to develop a Hsiung Feng III missile that can be deployed on land and be moved around easily.
Hsiung Feng III missile that can be deployed on land and be moved around easily.
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Originally posted by Mr Milo:
they wun sell, but will the US let Taiwan make new fighter jets under their licence for the F-16D and other aircraft?
You think Taiwan is PRC with fat cheque?? It will be costly to setup a production line with tooling? And ROC is notorious for leaking their secret to PRC. I bet US will not risk such move.... -
Why U.S wants to block China-Taiwan unification:
Why We Need Taiwan
A spate of articles, op-eds and comment pieces have appeared in the U.S. press and academic journals in recent months arguing that Taiwan is not important to America and/or isn’t worth fighting China over, that the United States cannot afford to spend more on its military (which it has to in order to protect Taiwan), and that Taiwan should be abandoned.
Some, a lot fewer, have come to Taiwan’s defense and argue otherwise.
There are numerous arguments to be made that Taiwan is an ally that should be kept. It is a democracy. It is sovereign. It is faithful to the United States, etc.
The critical case to be made, however, is—or at least should be—that Taiwan is strategically important to the United States.
I believe there are two good arguments to be made for Taiwan’s strategic importance: One comes from looking at the history of the United States. The other from geopolitics.
In December 1890, the United States Army won a battle against American Indians at Wounded Knee in South Dakota. This battle marked the end of the Indian Wars and meant that the United States could focus on external matters since it had finally consolidated its territory in the west.
Within ten years of Wounded Knee, the United States was on the way to becoming a world power. In 1898, the U.S. Navy won the Spanish American War. It acquired the Philippines and Guam as a result. The same year, the U.S. incorporated Hawaii and signed a tripartite agreement on Samoa.
In 1900, America made Wake Island its territory. Shortly after the United States started building the Panama Canal.
The expansion of the U.S. Navy was vital to all of this happening. And it continued. By the end of WWI, the U.S. Navy was the world’s largest. It built aircraft carriers that were the game-changing weapon in the Pacific during World War II, and in 1945, the U.S. had a fleet of 1,600 ships; no other nation was close to competing with America.
China’s reunification of Taiwan will be its Wounded Knee. It will no longer need to focus on territorial matters and will doubtless look to realize power ambitions further from its shores.
Its navy has already, for twenty years, been the benefactor of large budget increases (bigger than the air force or army), indicating China’s naval power (enhanced by the recent addition of an aircraft carrier) is ready to break out.
This relates to the second argument, the geopolitical one.
Looking at its geography, China is “contained” by a proximate chain of islands extending southward from Japan, through the Ryukyu’s, Taiwan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Australia.
To get into the Pacific Ocean, China’s naval vessels must go through one of various choke points between these islands. Its merchant marine (as well as its navy), in order to sail to the Middle East and Africa where China acquires most of its energy and natural resources, must go south through the Strait of Malacca, which is equally constraining.
Some strategists refer to the island chain in East Asia as the “Great Wall in reverse.” China’s naval officers and strategists see China as “boxed in.” Clearly geography does not favor China in its goal of expanding its influence into the Pacific Ocean.
If Taiwan were to become part of China, this would change. China’s navy would no longer be hemmed in. As a matter of fact, it would be able to extend its reach to the “second island chain”—Guam, the Marianas and some other small islands in the central Pacific—not much of a barrier.
Very important, Taiwan’s east-coast ports would give China’s submarines, which are a mainstay of its navy, a huge benefit. From Taiwan, they would be able to quickly get into deep water where they could not be detected and could proceed to the American west coast to show their wares and threaten the United States.
Both these factors, particularly taken together, suggest that Taiwan is important to the United States. Critically important.
http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/why-we-need-taiwan-5815
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I think U.S should not be allowed to succeed.
Taiwan and China must be unified. I totally support that.
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Originally posted by Dalforce 25:
I think U.S should not be allowed to succeed.
Taiwan and China must be unified. I totally support that.
Keeping current status quota is good enough... Taiwan is one of the largest investor for PRC.. I bet PRC will not do something foolish too plus KMT is very friendly to PRC now. -
Originally posted by zenden9:
Keeping current status quota is good enough...Long run should be unification, otherwise whenever there is tension in U.S-China relations, U.S will threaten to sell arms to Taiwan to squeeze China's balls.
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Originally posted by Dalforce 25:
Long run should be unification, otherwise whenever there is tension in U.S-China relations, U.S will threaten to sell arms to Taiwan to squeeze China's balls.
China can also provide arms to Iran if she deemed right... So more or less both have a leverage. Do you know why China investment in Iran has slowed down? Now you see US refuse to sell F-16 to ROC...Politics at work.
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If you say China is so peaceful, why should Taiwan be denied weapons for deterrence and self defence? Reunification by force is neither justified nor desirable for any party involved.
Of course China or any country can invade Taiwan. But Taiwan can hold PRC cities hostage the same way the PRC holds Taiwanese cities hostage. And why should this not be the case? Why should the price of invasion be worth it to China? This price has been suppressed by refusal to sell arms to Taiwan.
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Originally posted by alize:
If you say China is so peaceful, why should Taiwan be denied weapons for self defence?
It already has enough arm for self defence currently... That is the point. -
USA is declining as a superpower, just look at their high debt levels. very soon USA can no longer sustain itself as a superpower, its defence and social security being cut and the number of troops stationed in Japan, Germany etc, will be recalled home, cos it can no longer afford paying their salaries, not to mention costs of having a base overseas.
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with each passing day china get stronger and US weaker.
if a war breaks out i am sure US wont interfere with their own military. they may do a lot of things behind the scene. they wont want to risk an all out war with china.
the war will be swift with a lot of casualties on both sides. i hope the taiwanese will come to their senses and agree to unification. there is just no way to avoid this eventuality. maybe china can give taiwan 50 yrs free autonomy.
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Originally posted by alize:
If you say China is so peaceful, why should Taiwan be denied weapons for deterrence and self defence? Reunification by force is neither justified nor desirable for any party involved.
Of course China or any country can invade Taiwan. But Taiwan can hold PRC cities hostage the same way the PRC holds Taiwanese cities hostage. And why should this not be the case? Why should the price of invasion be worth it to China? This price has been suppressed by refusal to sell arms to Taiwan.
But you made the point that Taiwanese missiles are inferior to China's. Add to this the majority of Taiwan's weapons systems are obsolete or downgraded at point of sale, or both.
Even Singapore maintains an overmatch relative to its neighbours and would not consider standing still for a decade, especially regarding the air force.
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I don't understand some of the others' pro-unification views here.
The closest parallel to the issue is the Korean peninsula. It's like saying that North Korea's invasion was justified, or that American intereference in a future invasion is unjustified.
The PRC and Taiwan were born of civil war over 50 years ago. There has been no internationally recognized claim by one over the other, or recognition of the right of use of force. Grievances and causes of division are not recognised, especially where hostilities have ceased for so many years. Only the principle of self determination has been upheld, whether it is for unification, independence or the status quo.
Hosting American bases are a following and secondary issue for Europeans, Koreans, Japanese or Turks to decide on their own.
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Originally posted by alize:
But you made the point that Taiwanese missiles are inferior to China's. Add to this the majority of Taiwan's weapons systems are obsolete or downgraded at point of sale, or both.
Even Singapore maintains an overmatch relative to its neighbours and would not consider standing still for a decade, especially regarding the air force.
if north and south wants to go to war or unify thats their internal affairs. the same can be said of taiwan and china. there is no argument here. what has it got to do with US?
the americans are only interested in their own selfish interest. thats why they are against the unification.
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Originally posted by dragg:
if north and south wants to go to war or unify thats their internal affairs. the same can be said of taiwan and china. there is no argument here. what has it got to do with US?
the americans are only interested in their own selfish interest. thats why they are against the unification.
I like this reply. IF (two parties are free to enter a war) THEN (all other parties are free to take sides.)
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For their own interest, USA is not selling new fighter jets to ROC.
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Originally posted by alize:
I like this reply. IF (two parties are free to enter a war) THEN (all other parties are free to take sides.)
if you want to argue just for the sake of it.